Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

But all of those examples do not mean the religion is 'imposed' on people.

Christians are not forced to follow Islam and they can drink.

No one is punished for going to church or mandir etc.

That is what I said.

Example of adultery or gambling etc. are due to the majority Muslim population who accepted these laws be made through due process by lawmakers.

Gambling is not allowed everywhere even in many countries. It requires passing laws for it by city counsel where people get to vote for it otherwise it is illegal in many secular countries also. Alcohol consumption, serving and sale is also very much under laws of secular states. ( Dry counties)

Do you think this means these states are somehow religious?

Rest of your examples are of misuse of the laws or misunderstanding of the laws.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

True. But supervision is different than owning and controlling. Only hate speech should be banned. Otherwise there will be chance of abuse of these institutions and meddling with their freedom of ideas and speech. For example a religious scholar should be able to talk ill of alcohol drinking, gambling and fornication. :)

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Imposing religious laws does not mean imposing religious laws of one religion on people following another religion. It also means imposition of religious laws on those who claim to follow that religion.

You are right that many countries have laws against gambling and alcohol, but they brought those laws to eradicate a vice from society. In Pakistan it is nothing to do with eradicating vice from society rather it is imposed on people in the name of religion (that is why, non-Muslims are allowed to consume alcohol), hence Pakistani laws come in category of imposing religion over citizens, whereas in most other countries it is to do with controlling vice from society.

As for divorce law, blasphemy law, adultery law, etc in Pakistan, and people getting rough justice because of such laws, is nothing to do with wrong implementation rather it is to do with wrong laws that Pakistan imposed on people not for good of people but because Pakistan government thinks (or due to pressure of some thekadar of Islam) that according to the interpretation of Islam Pakistan should have such laws (though in most cases, even their interpretation regarding these laws are wrong).

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Sure, people preaching can preach whatever they like, as long as they do not preach hate towards other citizen of Pakistan. For that, supervision by government official is must.

Controlling mosques by government should be must as mosques in Pakistan are used to promote sectarian differences and Mullah thinks that the mosque belongs to them or their sect, when most mosques are built on government lands and should belong to every citizen equally.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

How can you say that in many other countries it is because of eradicating vice from the society but say Pakistan has nothing to do with eradicating the vice?

Other countries just do not use the word religion but the result is same. There are laws on alcohol and gambling everywhere.

Think of Pakistan as a society where people through their consent made laws against gambling and public alcohol drinking to eradicate vice from their society and all of your concerns will be removed.

Last thing Pakistan needs more problems if alcohol is freely available and issues associated with it.

I cannot understand why the issues on alcohol, gambling, fornication and because of these issues the state should be separated from religion?

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Again, the promotion of sectarian differences in the manner of hate should be banned. No argument there.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

order of don is now being carried out after the ultimatum.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

^^^ I'm not saying that I approve this, but only MQM is matching up to jihadi forces in Pakistan. And when you kill people, don't cry if they try to come after you.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

I dont think ulema being killed was involved but for the sake of arguement, if you know the ultimatum you could realize who have intiated it.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

So sad and should be condemned but when some of these ulemas spread hatred, this was bound to happen.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Looking at the mayhem the clerics and their followers cause in society, it seems to me that Carl Marx was not altogether wrong in saying that religion is opium for the masses.
People in Pakistan are killing others for their religion instead of focusing on improving the miserable that EVERYONE is going through.

A lot of violence in Pakistan is due to (what people think is) Islam. And that is an important reason why Islamic world could not break the threshold when it was at the cusp of industrial revolution before 1500s.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi


He was not right
Actually now
Religion is tool for the terrorists.
And
Ethnic hate is a tool for the opportunists.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Wallahu Alam, I have read that Mufti Shamzai had given a fatwa against suicide bombings and LEJ was not very fond of Jamia Binooria when he was there. I commend him for any fatwa/statement he might have given for terrorism in Pakistan, as we can see now that it has become the biggest problem for Pakistan's existence. I am for the time being discarding his affiliation with Alqaeda or Afghan Taleban. By the way who killed Molana Hassan Jan?

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Among the deobandis not many people follow SSP/LEJ, TTP and JEM etc. But I do agree that deobandis as a whole should come out and shun the terrorists once for all.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

In Karachi, I think, Sipah e Mohammad venture with MQM. Sad, most of people don't know what is Sipah e Mohammad, most of those who know, do not pin point.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

I personally think that some rapproachment should take place between different sects, and if possible and through ijtehad if a new school of thought can be developed. Most of Pakistan follows Deobandi and Barelvis schools of thought and with the passage of time the differences between the two sects are increasing. Cant they reach some middle ground somewhere (not compromising the religion)? After all both these school of thoughts are around 150-200 years, and I am sure the country has got plenty of ulemas to help bridging the differences.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Sipah e Muhammad is a reality. The problem we have is that none of the incidents starting from Liaqat Ali Khan to Benazir have reached any conclusion. The terrorists belonging from any ethnicity or sect need to be condemned and punished, but thats not the case in Pakistan. The police in the country is politically motivated and vulerable (state not able to protect them). The judiciary is weak and no counter terrorism policy available, an ideal environment for chaos.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

Why can't we accept and tolerate each other in spite of interpretation differences.. instead of getting in to this futile attempt of removing these differences which often end in blood shed.. which is considered the final way of resolving theological disputes.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

this is not the issue at hand, issue is to stop people(at the both side) from spreading hate against others' religious figures and leaders.

Re: Blood of scholars has no value in karachi

What a joke of a post.