Blasting of Gautam Buddha's statues

Guys guys guys- we seem to be missing the whole point here!!

Why did the taliban destry these statues? For religous reasons? Hmmmm thats what thet say !

But the underlying factor was they wanted the world to know who they are - they wanted the world to know their plight - they wanted the world to know that because of the WORLDS sanctions(led by america) against them there people are dying of hunger anddisease!!

I mean what the hell do you expect the taliban to do!!! they can't do jack s**t outside their own country cos no one wants to chat to them - cos almighty america says that they have osama bin laden!!

Well what would you do in their situation!!

People are saying its unislamic to desstroy these statues - so the unhumanitarian attrocities that the world is putting the afgan people through is nothing??
The life of a muslim is worth less then a stupid statue!!!????

People who say that this is unislamic make me sick cos they are ignorant and jahil themselves- not the taliban!!!

tum logooN ka damagh kharab ho gaya hai?
woh loag s*** ko poojna shuru ker daiN, ussay khuda bana leiN toh kya tum bathroom nahi jao gay?
ajeeb sir phiray loag ho tum sub, yaar, kya west ka itna influence hai tum logooN per kay tum islam kay khilaaf question karo? jo galat hai so galat hai, bus. taleban ka yeih karnama aaj nahi, kai soo baras pehlay hona chaiyay tha. aau mei samajhta hooN, aaisay karnamay pakistan mei bhi honay chaiyaiN. about barbari mosque, Allah apni cheezooN ki hifazat khud kerta hai. majal hai kisi ki kay woh Allah kay khillaf koi bhi karwai karay aur kamyaab ho? nahi. GO read the translation of Quran somewere. you'll know all. and take it for the basis of your beleif and follow everything via it. half islam is nothing. its either full islam or no islam.
ma'as Salama


Saadu to enterprise: Beam me up Scotty.

[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
**Why did they allow this event to be 'photographed'?
As far as I remember, photgraphy, and photos are haraam as well.

**
[/quote]

What makes you think they took the picture?

As far as I remember it was Ahmed Shah Masood and Rabbni group who first confirmed the destruction to BBC/CNN with this picture.

Also the picture is of a mountain, not of a living thing.

[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
**Why did they allow this event to be 'photographed'?
As far as I remember, photgraphy, and photos are haraam as well.

**
[/quote]

propoganda.....oops...that must be haram as well....

okay lemme instigate some other issues...

there was a display in a museum of art in NYC depicting the Virgin Mary made out of cow dung. many christians felt it disrespecting to their religion and wanted the art-work destroyed.... yet some pple say it was just "art" and the artist didnt mean for it to be "worshipped"...

the babri mosque in India was destroyed and the amplitude of response from Western countries was insignificant as compared to the destruction of Buddhist statues.

the hindu extremists burned a copy of the Holy Quran in response to the destruction of the statues...

so is tolerance conditional?

the US has within it the right of freedom of speech (or expression). that is why the art-work was not destroyed.

pple thought that the riots in india between muslims and hindus resulting in the destruction of the Babri Mosque was an issue that the Indian government had to handle.

so what is the destruction of buddist statues now? what category does this go under?

u have to think... despite the opposition of the western civilization against Afghanistan.. it is still holding strong. what is the reason behind that?

could they be right for once? if they are doing it in the name of Allah. to get closer to Allah?

are there buddists still in Afghanistan?

were they active in prayer at those sites while they were being destroyed?

what about the pyramids... werent they relics of a religion/culture?

what about the churches that have been converted into mosques, and vice versa?...

sometimes reminders of other religions make us become stronger in our own Iman(speaking from experience). sometimes if you dont have the drive to get towards higher emaan... those same reminders could turn u away from your religion. it all depends on the choices you make. and you know, that the purpose of muslims in this dunya is to differentiate right from wrong in order to acquire a place in Jannah through the rememberance of Allah (swa).

yes, one must be tolerant towards another's religion. no doubt about that. i lived w/a hindu girl for 4 yrs now, and we have had no attacks on religion. on the contrary, we educated each other about each others' religion.

u cannot convert someone to Islam. it is only Allah that puts it w/in their hearts. u can only educate.. and educate.. and BE the example. so many pple speak about "converting so and so" and doing this and doing that.. and fighting jihad.. but if u look at them... where are they in their own deen? will they be courteous to an old Christian woman who has a hard time putting her groceries in her car? or would they look at her harshly and be on their merry way? forget Christian woman... what about Muslim Sisters? very few. indeed, very few.

-mehndi

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ~Mickey~:
** What makes you think they took the picture?
Either they took the picture, or allowed someone to take the picture. Either way its haram by talebans standards, since they did not allow any non muslim country to take over the statues either.

Plus, they can routinely be seen giving interviews on tv. Tv is haram too, isnt it? As much as i love Osama, he too releases video recordings of himself time and again. Why the hypocrisy?

And its not just a mountain. Its the picture of a statue.

EA, who said pictures were haram and TV was haram in spreading good word?

No, don't answer my question, I will post something about it in religion forum. We all can learn something from there...ok? Good.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*


----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----


*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**EA, who said pictures were haram and TV was haram in spreading good word?

No, don't answer my question, I will post something about it in religion forum. We all can learn something from there...ok? Good.

**
[/quote]

Yeah.. please do.. I wanted to know more about the rulings regarding to tv, pictures etc.. and while you are at it.. also see if u can find something regarding music.. i haven't ever gotten a satisfactory answer for that either.

look closely at the pics...

doesnt that sky look TOO blue??

-mehndi

[quote]
Originally posted by Cats Meow:
** propoganda.....oops...that must be haram as well....
**
[/quote]

thats not funny

You failed to see the point of my post. I hate to have to explain such a minor point. However, I said so only to parallel what the taleban did. If a person is so hardcore that he wont even tolerate harmless statues, then he should be just as hardcore about photos and tv, regardless of whats in them.

As far as you posting something is concerned, if its a direct message from the Quran or a highly authentic hadees that clearly defines the permissibility of photographs and other media in certain circumstances, then by all means, go ahead. If its some excerpt from a no-name maulana, then save the effort

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[quote]
Originally posted by Eastern Analog:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ~Mickey~:
** What makes you think they took the picture?
Either they took the picture, or allowed someone to take the picture. Either way its haram by talebans standards, since they did not allow any non muslim country to take over the statues either.

Plus, they can routinely be seen giving interviews on tv. Tv is haram too, isnt it? As much as i love Osama, he too releases video recordings of himself time and again. Why the hypocrisy?

And its not just a mountain. Its the picture of a statue.**
[/quote]

Can you please point at the statue in that picture taken (not the first picture, which was taken before the Taliban rule).

Plus Osama is not Taliban, nor does he support Taliban. He has his own network. They might help Taliban, but they have nothing to do with Taliban. BTW TV and photography is banned in Afghanistan under Taliban rule, not in Pakistan ( Peshawer & Islamabad ) where most of the interviews are taken.

Why the hypocrisy?

I want to ask you the same thing, why the hypocrisy?

PEOPLE PEOPLE

Have you all forgotten about the Prophet Ibrahim in the Quran when he destroyed all the idols in his town and blamed it on the large one????????????????????????????????

Let us not get overwhelmed by PC here.

Remember that if you follow the truth, it will never be easy, people will shun you no matter what u do. From Osama Bin Laden to whatever, there will always be some excuse.

A picture as defined by hardcore islamists, (with who I have no problem) is any reproduction of any object that is in picture form.
The reason i brought up this issue was because the Taleban refused to hand over the statues to any other country, and chose to destroy them. I feel giving the statues to some other country would not have harmed the talebans faith in anyway. However, the reason they cited for not giving them over was that they didnt want to be involved in any trade of any sort regarding the statues, even if they were going to non muslims.

On the one hand, they would be so extreme in this regard, and on the other hand, they would allow pictures. Whether those pictures are taken in Afghanistan or Pakistan, their faith is still the same. They can refuse cameras when they are in Pakistan. Or they can refuse to come to Pakistan unless assured of the absence of the cameras.

Anyway, at this point, I couldnt care less. It was an ignorant move which was politically based, not religiously.

Even if Osama isnt a part of taleban, he still has contacts with them. And based on their mutual hardcore beliefs, they should not indulge in interaction with any party that involves itself in any unislamic behavior.
The problem is, everyone has their own standards.

I want to ask you the same thing, why the hypocrisy?

Explain the question please. Hypocrisy regarding what?

dammit EA you are always late

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hoonh.gif

Anchal ‘EA’s Chamchi’ Guppie

or is Anchal=Eastern Analog?

More Buddhist Statues Destroyed
Photos

AP Photo http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010313/wl/afghanistan_buddhas_5.html

By KATHY GANNON, Associated Press Writer

GHAZNI, Afghanistan (news - web sites) (AP) - At least two weeks before Afghanistan’s supreme ruler ordered all statues in the country destroyed, zealous Taliban soldiers wielding pickaxes hacked an ancient Buddhist complex to rubble, scrawling graffiti on the walls, a Taliban guard said.

``We confront the idols of non-Muslims and destroy them,‘’ read one message etched in a wall in Pashtu, the language of Afghanistan’s majority Pashtun ethnic group.

Arriving packed aboard four pickup trucks, the soldiers spent several days swarming over the complex, built in tiers up the side of a hill from the second to seventh centuries, said Mullah Saeed Jan, a Taliban guard at the site.

An ancient baked clay statue of Buddha, beheaded decades ago, was hacked into small pieces, among the relics destroyed at the complex at Ghazni, 120 miles southwest of the Afghan capital, Kabul.

``The Buddha was here, but we have smashed it,‘’ Jan said Tuesday, wrapped in a dirty brown blanket to protect against the cold wind sweeping the arid plains.

Jan said he knew little of the international outrage over the Taliban’s destruction of its pre-Islamic heritage, including two towering statues of Buddha in central Afghanistan.

``I don’t know what the world thinks, but it is in Shariat (Islamic law), so what can we do?‘’ he said.

The destruction at the Ghazni complex came at least two weeks before the Taliban’s reclusive leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, issued his order to destroy all statues, decreeing them idolatrous and offensive to Islam.

Taliban soldiers using explosives last week demolished two towering statues of Buddha hewn from a cliff face in central Bamiyan in the third and fifth centuries. The taller of the two, at 170 feet, was believed to be the world’s tallest standing Buddha, while the other measured 120 feet.

The Taliban have refused to allow anyone to go to Bamiyan.

On Tuesday, Jan displayed bits of clay that used to be part of a Buddha statue kept inside a chamber sealed with wooden slats. In another chamber, all that had remained of one ancient statue, the feet, were pounded into rubble and even the altar was demolished.

``I don’t know. They have gone completely mad, I think,‘’ said Nancy Dupree, a historian and Afghan expert, who has chronicled the history, culture and traditions of Afghanistan.

A founding member of the Society for the Preservation of Afghanistan’s Cultural Heritage, Dupree said the Ghazni ruins were a rich mix of Buddhist and Hindu traditions.

``This was toward the end of Buddhism in the area and the coming of Hinduism into Afghanistan,‘’ she explained. Some of the chambers contained Hindu statues, long since lost, destroyed or sold.

Smack in the middle of the ancient trade route between China and central Asia, Afghanistan’s history is a rich blend of cultures and religions.

``There’s an unbroken cultural history of 50,000 years,‘’ said Carla Grissmann, who spent several years inventorying the thousands of artifacts, most of Buddhist in origin, at the Kabul Museum.

The Taliban’s Foreign Minster Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil said Sunday they had all been destroyed.

For Afghans, Ghazni is considered an Islamic cultural mecca because religious leaders are buried there, Jan said.

Some of those leaders shared the same version of Islam that is followed by today’s Taliban.

Take Afghanistan’s 12th-century ruler, Sultan Mahmood Ghaznavi, who rampaged across most of northern India converting Hindus to Islam and smashing Hindu statues.

He is said to have taken Hindu statues and put them at the entrance to a mosque in Ghazni so the Muslim faithful could use them as stepping stones.

Afghanistan still has a relatively large Hindu and Sikh population, although hundreds fled between 1992 and 1996 when warring Islamic factions, who threw out the communists, destroyed much of Kabul.

The Taliban took control in 1996 and have allowed Hindus and Sikhs to practice their religions. A Sikh temple in Karte Parwan neighborhood is a giant marble hall where the soft melodies of Indian music can be heard.

Despite the Taliban’s ban on music, they have not interfered with music played by other religions.

``At the moment, we have no difficulties. But no one can guarantee the future,‘’ said a Hindu resident of Kabul, who identified himself only as Makan.

We don't want to talk politics,'' said a nervous Andar Singh, a Sikh. Everything for the moment is calm and normal.‘’ An estimated 450 worshippers come daily to a Sikh temple in Kabul, while in Jalalabad, there are 520 Sikh worshippers, Singh said.

Dupree clings to the hope that some of the statues may have been brought to Pakistan to be sold, despite the Taliban’s repeated denials that any artifact was sold.

``It is as wrong to sell as it is to have’’ the statues, said Mullah Mohammed Hassan, deputy administrator of Kabul

I don't think it's a case of hypocrisy at all. TV images and photos aren't regarded as making images because they are real, just like reflection in a mirror. Hardly constitutes making 'images'.

You could argue that it was an ignorant act, but then that's a different matter again.

Hypocrisy is the likes of Anchal here excusing Hindu fundos in India jumping on the bandwagon when it had nothing to do with them.

N.B. Get this through your skull Anchal : Hindus in India have no reason to burn Qurans on behalf of Buddhists in Afghanistan. If you have trouble accepting that Hindus and Buddhists are two different religions then go to the Religion Forum and check the thread runing there.

The real hypocrites are the RSS/Bajrang Dal Hindutvas who ran to burn Qurans after being responsible for reducing the Babri mosque to rubble.

wide-eyed
Xtreme really ...DAH
I am aware of the fact that both are different religions

Tell me, If a Shia, or an Ahmedi is killed in India what would be the reaction of Sunnis in Pakistan or Afghanistan?

Would they sip their Rooh Afzas and dance around the fire and rejoice on the occasion
Shias arent muslims hena why should they be offended

and while you are at it, just remind me of the origin of Bhuddism, yeah you know the Guy Gautama Bhudda who left his family and went in the jungle where he sat and sat until he became a hadion ka dhancha and then said kay he has finally found the light

Anchal 'The Dumb' Guppie

[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited March 14, 2001).]

Tell me, If a Shia, or an Ahmedi is killed in India what would be the reaction of Sunnis in Pakistan or Afghanistan?

Well it's already happened. After the demolition of Babri masjid by your Bajrang/RSS, something like 5000 muslims were killed in India following protests. Are you saying that as a result there should have been 5000 hindus killed in Pakistan? It's just stupid logic. Two wrongs don't make a right, and there isn't any justification for those Bajrang monkeys to take it out on innocent people in India.

[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme:

It's just stupid logic. Two wrongs don't make a right, and there isn't any justification for those Bajrang monkeys to take it out on innocent people in India.

[/quote]

Oh so when its your turn it automatically becomes 'Right'
and when its their turn its 'two wrongs'?

You had fun smashing, why do you deprive them of their part of the fun
plus they werent buring qurans before the smashing incident, were they?

Xtreme who is the hypocrite now?
dont shy away from the discussion by talking nonsense

PS. I am a Bihari not a Bajrang Bali Shali, we wear lungis and make spirits

Atal 'Anchal' Bihari

[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited March 14, 2001).]