comments from the khaleeji arab lovers here?
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Its like posting an article from an orthodox jew on his race.
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Hazara dude. To me its clear "no one is superior to any one , and no one is inferior to any"
Believe it as a child as it was phophet who said that.
Now I learn it from practical life too. People who want to achieve some thing the do achieve some thing. Trust me belonging to some certain groups doesn't help much.
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
hazara u seem to have just as much racial hatred against arabs as many of them have against ajamees
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Peace hazara
I find your thread heavily political, causing of fitnah and extremely maligned. You are posting articles from deceptive sources too. I think the mods should close this thread very very soon.
In support of the above said:
1) Sh. Ibn Taymiyyah is being taken out of context upon a quote from an anti-Salafi article.
2) What is the point in alluding to 'black' and 'superior race'?
3) There are many explanations to this on the web already
4) This topic is going to cause more rifts and problems in the state of the heart of Muslims
5) There are no scriptural evidences to backup the claims
6) We should concentrate on building bridges not differences
So here is my input ... this thread is a fitnah and needs to be locked ... mods?
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the ‘master race’
^ :k: well said!
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the ‘master race’
Salam-o-Alaikum
Lets start off with a chuckle ‘Khaleeji arab lovers here’ 
Islam and Quran specifically outline what makes one Muslim superior over another is not the language, the skin color, or wealth, rather it’s the deeds and taqwa.
End of story.
Salam-o-Alaikum
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Funny how only the three posts above me were the only meaningful ones in this whole thread. lol
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
1) Sh. Ibn Taymiyyah is being taken out of context upon a quote from an anti-Salafi article.
Actually, that's not true.
If you actually read what Ibn Taymiyyah had to say about these things, he strongly supported forcing Arabic language and culture on conquered people...and denounced the Arabs for letting the people of Khorasan & Iran continue speaking Farsi after the Arab conquest (I believe he said their actions were makruh).
Granted, he makes exceptions for *individuals *(ie its possible for an individual non-Arab to be 'superior' to an Arab in terms of knowledge of Islam and piety), but he did believe in the inherent superiority of Arabs as a group (Hashmi Qureishi > non-Hashmi Qureshi > non-Qureshi Arab > non-Arab).
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the ‘master race’
^ People would rather deny it than look at the facts for what they are. If we don’t understand or question this part of Islamic history, then how much delusions do we suffer from “Islamic scholars” who feel like in order to be a good muslim, you need to wear an abaya, black or white colors, and cover your face, erase the cultural aspects of your life that don’t conflict with Islam, speak Arabic and praise Arabic over your own mother tongue, etc?
There is a clear increasing push from Arabs to make people more like themselves, because with the advent of westernization in Arab countries, their culture is being tested. Simple. And yet we Pakistanis take anything an Arab says are more likely to be true, simply because they’re Arab. This is an incorrect way of thinking and is leading muslims to not take leadership over their own countries and lives.
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
^ there is no denying that after pious caliphate a segment of arabs esp. of Quraishi origin [aka ummayyads] tried to implement their superiority over nonarabs converted muslims ....this led to several revolts particularly in ummayyad history ...most important the one which put abbassids in power [even then the cause of nonarabs was championed on many occasions by arabs of noble birth e.g revolts of amir mukhtar and abdullah b muwiyah ]
also as shias looked up to desendents of prophet as rightful successors that too perpetuated the myth of arabs superior to nonarabs
However if u look closely at the early muslims it is clear that they had no such ideas ...it is true that umar[ra] did not want arabs to intermingle too much with persians as that would corrupt them [hence the founding of garrion towns like kufa ] and his concern was genuine given the lavish lifestyle of sassanians and the masses of wealth tested the faith of the best muslims but it would be unfair to say that he showed a racial hatred towards them, his advisor hurmuzan was a ex-persian general
and afterall he said about his persian friend and companion salim mawla abuhudhayfa[ra] that he would have nominated him a caliph had he not been martyred in the Ridda wars!
in conclusion i would say that arabs like all other races have their share of racist people and that racism was at its height in the heyday of arab imperialism [which is mistakenly called the golden age]
But the ones who raised the loudest voices of protest against arab racism have also been arabs historically.....
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
also as shias looked up to desendents of prophet as rightful successors that too perpetuated the myth of arabs superior to nonarabs
Shias look up to the descendants of the Prophet, not Arabs in general.
In fact, if you look at the way Shi'ism developed through the centuries, because of its close association with Iran & Persian people its far less 'Arab-centric' than right-wing Sunni Islam.
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
These are specific incidents from history.
There are other incidents which do not show "muslim" leaders to be very open to local culture.
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Shias look up to the descendants of the Prophet, not Arabs in general.
In fact, if you look at the way Shi'ism developed through the centuries, because of its close association with Iran & Persian people its far less 'Arab-centric' than right-wing Sunni Islam.
Yeah, and that's a total irony. Sunnis hold that anyone can be a political leader, ex. caliphs, who don't have to be necessarily related to the Prophet. You'd think they'd be more democratic and open people, but strict sunnism of today is very close to upholding Arab nationalism and ethnocentric approaches.
In the end, scholars shape the minds of people more than the Quran, sadly, and scholars are often shaped by the politics of their time. We have to be able to openly study about Islamic history post-Prophet's death, and continuuing into the centuries to see where muslims did good and where we did wrong.
To stop those discussions claiming they are fitna...is ATROCIOUS! I mean, what's more fitna than letting wrong things happen in your society, because you weren't open minded about looking back in history to notice what can happen when you go down that road?
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Shias look up to the descendants of the Prophet, not Arabs in general.
In fact, if you look at the way Shi'ism developed through the centuries, because of its close association with Iran & Persian people its far less 'Arab-centric' than right-wing Sunni Islam.
I know but descendents of prophet[saw] are also arabs
a big misfortune for shias came when safavis became 12er shias and totally persianized it ....they were just as racist against arabs as the arabs were against the "ajamees"
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
I know but descendents of prophet[saw] are also arabs
This was definitely true in the early years of Islam (and obviously for the 12 Imams), but it hasn't really been the case for several centuries. The Ahl-ul-Bayt began to flee Arabia during the Umayyad era, and within a few centuries were primarily settled in Iran, Central Asia, and (later on) in the Subcontinent.
In any case, I don't consider following the Ahl-ul-Bayt specifically a reflection of a sense of Arab cultural/religious imperialism. The Imams were honored because of their close relation to the Prophet himself, and their scholarship...not because of their racial background or mother tongue.
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
These are specific incidents from history.
There are other incidents which do not show "muslim" leaders to be very open to local culture.
in our history eg. of titu mir and sayyd ahmed shahid are classical ...both are projected on one hand as pious reformers guardians of true faith on other hand as bigoted zealots ...both were influenced by teachings of wahabi islam who claim they are puritins ...even though I do not in anyway ascribe to their views on religion, its hard not to sympathize with their revolts.They did honestly try to curb unislamic influences amongst the local populations and resist foreign powers ....its a pity that other muslims of their time failed to appreciate their revolutionary spirit and their genuine concern for state of muslims because they were overly threatned by their rigrous implementation of [their interpretation of] shariah law or arab culture
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
[QUOTE] This was definitely true in the early years of Islam (and obviously for the 12 Imams), but it hasn't really been the case for several centuries. The Ahl-ul-Bayt began to flee Arabia during the Umayyad era, and within a few centuries were primarily settled in Iran, Central Asia, and (later on) in the Subcontinent.
none of which can claim imamate atleast in 12er shia islam
[QUOTE]
In any case, I don't consider following the Ahl-ul-Bayt specifically a reflection of a sense of Arab cultural/religious imperialism. The Imams were honored because of their close relation to the Prophet himself, and their scholarship...not because of their racial background or mother tongue./
[/QUOTE]
quote]
I agree but their association with banu hashim did give it the status of a "superior clan"
dont get me wrong i am myself well aware of the merits of hashimis but they had their bad apples as well
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
Yeah, and that's a total irony. Sunnis hold that anyone can be a political leader, ex. caliphs, who don't have to be necessarily related to the Prophet. ?
not really ...according to doctrine of early caliphate u have to be a quraishi to be a caliph , again by virtue of their relation to the prophet[saw] and also because arabs wud never accept a leader from any other tribe [refer to arguments presented by abu bakr[ra] to the ansar at the meeting of saqifa]
only kharijites were the truely democratic where anyone arab or nonarab can be their leader
Re: black salafi imam: arabs are the 'master race'
In the end, scholars shape the minds of people more than the Quran, sadly, and scholars are often shaped by the politics of their time. We have to be able to openly study about Islamic history post-Prophet's death, and continuuing into the centuries to see where muslims did good and where we did wrong.
?
very true ....