Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
I got it as eidi from Lippy…
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
No question TLK_Q would have also done a good Jon. Q when he is not in his lab.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
What about white hole? :)
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
^ white holes are therotical opposite of black holes. Just like black hole sucks everything in and crushed to nothingness, white holes keep spitting stuff out in real shape and form, like the way you see an astronaut plunged into blak hole, you may see an astronaut emerging out of a white hole.
I think it was Stephen hawking who suggested that another end of a black hole could be a white hole. The problem is this that white holes defy a major law of physics, 2nd law of thermodynamics i.e. so it's not possible in our universe.
To go around that issue, hawking suggested that the other end of black hole could be a white hole that is opening in a parallel universe that may have different law of physics.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
^This sounds way too vague to me. Don't theories come into existence once there is significant research on the topic? How did Hawkings come with this theory? Or is it just a HUGE assumption that there is a parallel universe?
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
^This sounds way too vague to me. Don't theories come into existence once there is significant research on the topic? How did Hawkings come with this theory? Or is it just a HUGE assumption that there is a parallel universe?
white hole is just a mathematical model which means that unless a nature's law puts some limit, they are as possible as a black hole. It's like speed of light limit. Mathematically it's possible to travel faster than that, but laws of physics don't allow it.
Just like that, parallel universe can also exist, at least mathematically
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Oh of course - since it can't actually be studied (that's why I asked) it is only a mathematical possibility.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Why do white holes defy the 2nd law of thermodynamics? I meant to ask - in what way are white holes defying 2 nd law and in what way are black holes norlt defying 2 nd law. They are mirror images of each other. So if one obays 2nd law so should the other. What am I missing?
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Alright, so there is a black hole and there is a white hole what about a brown hole? If you navigate your compass between the two there you will find one .. :)
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
^This sounds way too vague to me. Don't theories come into existence once there is significant research on the topic? How did Hawkings come with this theory? Or is it just a HUGE assumption that there is a parallel universe?
welcome to the world of modern day theoretical physics. where research = writing a mathematical equation and saying that means anything it represents is possible in the physical world. did you know you are a wave? yay! and there is a possibility you are now in antarctica. tis true, ask the theo.physicist..
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
welcome to the world of modern day theoretical physics. where research = writing a mathematical equation and saying that means anything it represents is possible in the physical world. did you know you are a wave? yay! and there is a possibility you are now in antarctica. tis true, ask the theo.physicist..
lol thanks, that really is new to me since I never studied physics. I have always been a bio person.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Why do white holes defy the 2nd law of thermodynamics? I meant to ask - in what way are white holes defying 2 nd law and in what way are black holes norlt defying 2 nd law. They are mirror images of each other. So if one obays 2nd law so should the other. What am I missing?
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] law of thermodynamics simply put, states that order will be followed by disorder/chaos and not the other way around .That means that if you drop a cup from some height, it will shatter into pieces on the ground. That is a common observation. But you will never find pieces of broken glass jump back into forming an unbroken cup. Mathematically it might be possible, but law prohibits that, at least in our universe.
To make things even more confusing, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] law is also an indication of arrow of time. That means that 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] law is the tool to tell us that time is flowing from past to future. This means that to break that law, you have to allow the time to flow from future to past. That is another reason why white holes are not possible in our universe (if they were, it was possible to use them to travel into past I think, just like black holes can make you travel into future)
welcome to the world of modern day theoretical physics. where research = writing a mathematical equation and saying that means anything it represents is possible in the physical world. did you know you are a wave? yay! and there is a possibility you are now in antarctica. tis true, ask the theo.physicist..
Almost everything that theoretical physics predicted, if not defying any known law, came true. Black Holes themselves were a mathematical equation once. So were the Electro Weak particles and also recently observed Higgs Boson particle was just a mathematical equation till few months ago
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
i'm not denying that, just pointing out that theoretical physics has long surpassed the domain of human intuition and "proof" is often indirect, and takes decades after the theory is accepted.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] law of thermodynamics simply put, states that order will be followed by disorder/chaos and not the other way around .That means that if you drop a cup from some height, it will shatter into pieces on the ground. That is a common observation. But you will never find pieces of broken glass jump back into forming an unbroken cup. Mathematically it might be possible, but law prohibits that, at least in our universe.
To make things even more confusing, 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] law is also an indication of arrow of time. That means that 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] law is the tool to tell us that time is flowing from past to future. This means that to break that law, you have to allow the time to flow from future to past. That is another reason why white holes are not possible in our universe (if they were, it was possible to use them to travel into past I think, just like black holes can make you travel into future)
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Thanks!
One point still confuses me. Why does stuff getting sucked into a black hole correspond to going from order to disorder? And why reverse true for white hole?
^ when a person gets sucked into a black hole, order of his atoms that formed him are lost and he has turned into quarks and then something inside the hole that only God knows.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Makes sense TLK, also known as "Funda Man"
Thanks!!
little correction
Time either speeds up or slows down around cosmological bodies with differing masses and velocities not just black holes
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Thanks!
One point still confuses me. Why does stuff getting sucked into a black hole correspond to going from order to disorder? And why reverse true for white hole?
A black hole is region of space containing, at it's center, matter compressed into a point of infinite density called singularity. Any mass that reaches the point of singularity is crushed into infinite density and then the mass is added to that of the black hole. So it's not the matter of mass going from order to disorder , it's about mass being sucked into a black hole and adding it's mass to the black hole and assuming that there is an exit point to all that pent up mass then it would be white hole that spew out the mass but the concept of white is all but theoretical for now.
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
Thanks Ruomiat. Welcome to our forum!!
Re: Black Holes and The Concept of Time
hain 