Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

[achterbahn]

People lets get some perspective here. I am listing few questions (and answers where known) and would like to get your opinion on that:

1) What is the main source of all information at the time?

White house / wild speculations in western media

2) Where is Osama’s dead body?

???

**3) Any hard evidence that Osama was actually killed? **

???

4) Could it really be possible for 4 slow moving helicopters (which are even visible to naked eye at day light and can be heard at night) to reach a military town without being detected?

Highly unlikely

5) Was it a joint operation, after a deal cut between USA and Army / top level politicians to get something that will produce a kind of win-win for both countries?

?

6) Would Americans be so quiet, had Pakistan actually sheltered Osama in Abbotabad? (all we hear is the praise by Americans top leadership and some criticism between the lines).

?

7) What connection it could have with the possible withdrawl of significant number of US soldiers from Afghanistan?

8) Is general Petreus the possible opponent (presidential candidate) of Obama? How would he come out of this, once the soldiers are withdrawn without he achieving anything significant (militarily speaking)?

9) Did the internal frictions within US made Obama giving full credit to current CIA head (and possible next defence secretary)?

**One very important question f****or all those jumping up and down at the prospect of Pakistan being targeted as Afghanistan or Irak or Libya: **

Can a nuclear power actually be bombed? raided? knowing that it could act in despair when pushed to the brink and there are very remote chances that one of the most protected countries in the world could become a target of one or the other nuke capable missile? What would be going through the minds of planners of a supposedly super power when such a scenario is drawn?

Would appreciate an objective discussion without conspiracy theories, please feel free to add more questions.

[system]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

You make some really good points, very thought provoking. The US wouldn’t remain silent if they thought Pakistan had really sheltered Osama, it is highly unlikely. There really is no evidence, it all happened so fast- how is it possible for all that to happen in such a short amount of time?

[Captain1]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@achterbahn

5) Was it a joint operation, after a deal cut between USA and Army / top level politicians to get something that will produce a kind of win-win for both countries?

?

I don’t see a “win-win” situation for Pakistan military, only politicians can score points and ask for getting ISI under Presidency/PM so they can put organization to accountability and pull strings according to master ji.

@achterbahn

7) What connection it could have with the possible withdrawl of significant number of US soldiers from Afghanistan?

Possibly moving the troops close to the Afghanistan-Pakistan border or incite some civil war and then move troops into Pakistan

@achterbahn

**One very important question f****or all those jumping up and down at the prospect of Pakistan being targeted as Afghanistan or Irak or Libya: **

Can a nuclear power actually be bombed? raided? knowing that it could act in despair when pushed to the brink and there are very remote chances that one of the most protected countries in the world could become a target of one or the other nuke capable missile? What would be going through the minds of planners of a supposedly super power when such a scenario is drawn?

Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan didn’t have nukes so a daylight robbery was possible but Pakistan having nukes only night-time sneaker robbery is very likely, what it means is not an open invasion but slowly burning things around with more Raymonds in the country being more active it will become possible to neuter Pak’s own intelligence agency and control of things.

[ravage]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

very thought provoking

[indik]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@achterbahn

People lets get some perspective here. I am listing few questions (and answers where known) and would like to get your opinion on that:

1) What is the main source of all information at the time?

White house / wild speculations in western media

2) Where is Osama’s dead body?

???

**3) Any hard evidence that Osama was actually killed? **

???

4) Could it really be possible for 4 slow moving helicopters (which are even visible to naked eye at day light and can be heard at night) to reach a military town without being detected?

Highly unlikely

5) Was it a joint operation, after a deal cut between USA and Army / top level politicians to get something that will produce a kind of win-win for both countries?

?

6) Would Americans be so quiet, had Pakistan actually sheltered Osama in Abbotabad? (all we hear is the praise by Americans top leadership and some criticism between the lines).

?

7) What connection it could have with the possible withdrawl of significant number of US soldiers from Afghanistan?

8) Is general Petreus the possible opponent (presidential candidate) of Obama? How would he come out of this, once the soldiers are withdrawn without he achieving anything significant (militarily speaking)?

9) Did the internal frictions within US made Obama giving full credit to current CIA head (and possible next defence secretary)?

**One very important question f****or all those jumping up and down at the prospect of Pakistan being targeted as Afghanistan or Irak or Libya: **

Can a nuclear power actually be bombed? raided? knowing that it could act in despair when pushed to the brink and there are very remote chances that one of the most protected countries in the world could become a target of one or the other nuke capable missile? What would be going through the minds of planners of a supposedly super power when such a scenario is drawn?

Would appreciate an objective discussion without conspiracy theories, please feel free to add more questions.

you are still talking like a super power? i am really sorry for right thinking pakistanis.

[yamahaguy]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

Who is forcing Pakistanis to believe OBL is dead??? You are more than welcome to believe OBL alive and kicking.

Who has stuffed cotton wool in Kiyani’s mouth. Why cant he speak what happened?? *Uske muh mein Zabaan nahi hai kya? *

American dont care, whether Paksitanis believe it or not. Its resposiblity of Rulers of Pakistan to inform its people what happened?

[ZareenKhan]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

Kiyani bi gadar nikla. UfFf..Sab jhoot that!!!

[Mirch]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

You will always find people who will buy anything. Pet Rock is prime example (Pet Rock Page)

I am not saying that OBL was not killed in this raid, but all the questions here are thought provoking. If this is a hoax pulled by US government , then I want to live till the time we find out it was a hoax and I would like to know how they pulled it and why . It will be a very interesting read.

[yamahaguy]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@ZareenKhan

Kiyani bi gadar nikla. UfFf..Sab jhoot that!!!

Kiyani ne kisse gadari ki?? Osama bin Laden se??

Isnt Paksitan ally of USA in war against terror? Wasnt it job of Pakistan to kill OBL??

Pakistan army says something else and does soenthing else? Ek taraf they say, they want to kill OBL on the other hand OBL has been provided a home few hundred yards from PMA

[achterbahn]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

Whether OBL dead or not, personally I think it was a perfect deflection from the massive problems Obama is facing right now (economy at the brink of collapse, rating falling sharply etc.)

What more? By giving full credit to Panetta, he made sure no credit goes to Petreus, a very popular general with a very strong chances of running against Obama in the next election (until before this incident at least).

Reading carefully the reaction from US from people who really matter, it seems very plausible that the whole episode was done with full co-operation from Pakistan.

Now the question is, what Pakistan gets out of this? After such an open humiliation? One possible answer is that there might something bigger and more strategic, which is not for the public to know at this time.

But lets see what other experts are saying about this…

[sharaabee]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

ach.. you are hilarious

[babloos]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

^^
he may be infact right

not about obama Dead or alive,but a deal stuck between pak-us like strategic importance in afghanistan.

which could favour china big time.with all it’s resources

[ZareenKhan]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@yamahaguy

Kiyani ne kisse gadari ki?? Osama bin Laden se??

Isnt Paksitan ally of USA in war against terror? Wasnt it job of Pakistan to kill OBL??

Pakistan army says something else and does soenthing else? Ek taraf they say, they want to kill OBL on the other hand OBL has been provided a home few hundred yards from PMA

I have no doubt that this Osama death is a fraud. He is probably living lavish some where and enjoying the news or maybe he died few yrs bck but def not at this recent attack.

Kayani is a gadar cuz he played along this latest drama which wud mean they r gonna be allowed more drone attacks here which sucks bigtime.

[achterbahn]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@babloos

^^
he may be infact right

not about obama Dead or alive,but a deal stuck between pak-us like afghanistan once the us army leaves

Why could it be a worst scenario for indians?

And why anything that could remotely be good for Pakistan, has to be bad for India?

[babloos]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@achterbahn

Why could it be a worst scenario for indians?

And why anything that could remotely be good for Pakistan, has to be bad for India?

strategic importance in afghanistan,with the amount of natural resources,india could import few materials cheaply compare to arab or african countries.

if the new government is friend to pakistan,then expect china to win all the bids.there is more to it then resources from indian point of view.

[yamahaguy]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@ZareenKhan

I have no doubt that this Osama death is a fraud. He is probably living lavish some where and enjoying the news or maybe he died few yrs bck but def not at this recent attack.

Kayani is a gadar cuz he played along this latest drama which wud mean they r gonna be allowed more drone attacks here which sucks bigtime.

If Pakistanis are sick of Drone attacks, why dont Pakistanis sit and have peaceful Dharna (Gandhijee Ishtyle ) on the roads that keep US army alive in Afghanistan. Burning of trucks wont work, its peaceful hunger strikes and Lying on NATO supply lines that will work. Truth is that even Pakistan army wants drone attacks to continue.

[achterbahn]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@babloos

strategic importance in afghanistan,with the amount of natural resources,india could import few materials cheaply compare to arab or african countries.

if the new government is friend to pakistan,then expect china to win all the bids.there is more to it then resources from indian point of view.

Yes we know that there is more than just resources from Indian point of view, and rest assured, the planners sitting in GHQ have not gone blind to that threat.

And hence all these dramas…

[babloos]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@achterbahn

Yes we know that there is more than just resources from Indian point of view, and rest assured, the planners sitting in GHQ have not gone blind to that threat.

And hence all these dramas…

there is more to it.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@achterbahn

People lets get some perspective here. I am listing few questions (and answers where known) and would like to get your opinion on that:

I would like to answer all your questions. Though some may not agree with my answers, but what I am saying, I believe is true.

1) What is the main source of all information at the time?

White house / wild speculations in western media

White house, Western government, Western media, Pakistan government, Pakistani media, non-western/Pakistani government and non-western/Pakistani media.

Now what you want to get convince?

Taliban/AL-Q non-existant government and Taliban/Al-Q media … or words from Gen Baig, Hamid Gul, Zaid Hamid, Imran and Qazi?

2) Where is Osama’s dead body?

???

As told, thrown as thrash in deep blue sea.

**3) Any hard evidence that Osama was actually killed? **

???

As hard as any evidence, that includes whatever government and media says. For instance, I do not know if OBL or Mullah Umar are/were even an entity (as I never met or seen them), but I believe they are entities because governments and media tells that.

4) Could it really be possible for 4 slow moving helicopters (which are even visible to naked eye at day light and can be heard at night) to reach a military town without being detected?

Highly unlikely

Not highly unlikely, but quite possible. Most Pakistani radar systems are western made, and west have capability to jam any radar they themselves developed. Regardless, jamming low tech and even some high tech radars are possible regardless of who developed them, something Americans have technology to do easily.

Example: Remember, Iraq had much higher technology in form of Radars and intercept aircrafts what Pakistan has, still Israeli aircrafts came from hundreds of miles, bombed their nuclear facilities and left, undetected.

Iran had much better equipments (what Shah left) than what Pakistan has, still America entered Iran to get their hostages released (that is different matter that nature stopped them).

5) Was it a joint operation, after a deal cut between USA and Army / top level politicians to get something that will produce a kind of win-win for both countries?

?

We do not know, though it seems unlikely.

6) Would Americans be so quiet, had Pakistan actually sheltered Osama in Abbotabad? (all we hear is the praise by Americans top leadership and some criticism between the lines).

?

I do not think Americans are quite. What is happening is big embarrassment for Pakistan. Regardless, both USA and OBL violated Pakistan sovereign rights. OBL violation was gross, and American violation exposed that gross.

7) What connection it could have with the possible withdrawl of significant number of US soldiers from Afghanistan?

It is possible that what happened could become prelude in withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan.

8) Is general Petreus the possible opponent (presidential candidate) of Obama? How would he come out of this, once the soldiers are withdrawn without he achieving anything significant (militarily speaking)?

I do not think general Petraeus is possible presidential candidate and opponent of Obama. His success or failure is academic. Anyhow, time would tell his future.

9) Did the internal frictions within US made Obama giving full credit to current CIA head (and possible next defence secretary)?

I do not think American system works the way you are assuming.

**One very important question for all those jumping up and down at the prospect of Pakistan being targeted as Afghanistan or Irak or Libya: **

Can a nuclear power actually be bombed? raided? knowing that it could act in despair when pushed to the brink and there are very remote chances that one of the most protected countries in the world could become a target of one or the other nuke capable missile? What would be going through the minds of planners of a supposedly super power when such a scenario is drawn?

Yes, nuclear power can be bombed and raided, especially powers that has no teeth to bite back. If Pakistan would get bomb and raided by USA, Pakistan would have no defence (whatever one like to believe or say). Pakistan only capability is to hit targets few hundred miles from Pakistani border against a country that has none to similar technology what Pakistan has.

[picoico]

Re: Bin Laden: Surprising to see people really buying into this stuff

@achterbahn

People lets get some perspective here. I am listing few questions (and answers where known) and would like to get your opinion on that:

OBL dead or allive is no matter to us. He was a nobody. We were never interested in him, and there’s no strong evidence he has a direct link to the plague of terror on pak soil.

WHAT IS of concern is that four US helicopters were either allowed to operate on pak soil, and the pak military refuses to admit it, or that four helicopters invaded pakistani airspace for several hours and that the pak military was incapable of doing anything about it. Period.

Of what value is it to us if OBL is alive, and the white house is lying? Is the US trying to make pak look bad? I’m sorry…but it seems like the pak establishment has already done that. Could this be a ploy for obama to secure the next election? Who cares? That might even be a good thing…Obama is better than any republican out there.