I started thinking from reading the posts in the chaaleswaan thread. I have a few questions in my mind…I know that shirk means that associating someone with Allah and cannot be forgiven…but still
1)how do we draw a fine line b/w bidah and shirk. 2) Is peeri muridi shirk? mazaaron pe jaa ke chaadar aur phool bichaana? dua allah se mangnay ke bajai mazaar pe jaa ker mannat mangna?
3) If peeri muridi is shirk…why does it happen so much in pakistan? Why don’t we remember that it is a sin that cannot be forgiven?
Shirk is associating someone or something with Allah Almighty.
Bidah is being innovative & introducing new things in Islam which were never there.
Wearing amulets is shirk, I used to do it a lot, then one fine day after reading a lot of fatwas & Quran Ayats & Hadith, I just kept them away. The only thing that can help are wazeefahs, Allah ka dhikr, prayers, duas, not a piece of paper/rose/thread wrapped around ur wrist/neck/hand...!
Chaaleeswan is a bidah, its something that was never there, it just popped up & now its a common practice. There is absolutely no Quran Ayat or Hadith to support the mourning of a dead one after 3 days.
2) Is peeri muridi shirk? mazaaron pe jaa ke chaadar aur phool bichaana? dua allah se mangnay ke bajai mazaar pe jaa ker mannat mangna?
Yes, it is. This is coming from an ex believer in mazars. I used to believe in them a lot, I still think they did good in the name of Allah, & the mazars I specifically visited were peers who insisted that we shouldnt be worshipped after our death.
3) If peeri muridi is shirk....why does it happen so much in pakistan? Why don't we remember that it is a sin that cannot be forgiven?
In addition - There is a simple logical answer to ur question 2. If the soul resting in peace cannot shoo away a fly sitting on its mazar, what good can that pir bring u??? There have been weird incidences with me in those places, but its better not to discuss them.
Pirs & nangas have a deep history, but there is no Ayat or Quran Ayat which supports a dedicated devotion to Allah in this manner. Chilla kaatna, aur bhooka rehna is just one of the things nangas do, they say they are in direct communication with Allah Almighty.
The only Prophet who had direct communication with Allah Almighty was Hazrat Musa (RA), correct me if Im wrong.
If visiting mazars & phool charhana etc is jaiz, why isnt it allowed in Madina Munawwara? Its simple logic, its bidah, something innovated through the passage of time.
Correct me if Im wrong people, but the only thing we are allowed to do is visit the graves of our loved ones & just pray from Allah for their forgiveness. I did see once an Arab sprinkling rose water all over the grave. Is this bidah or jaiz? We are also forbidden to light incense sticks near any grave.
thats exactly what my dad used to tell me when we went to madinah....over there there is not even a katba(name plate) on kabars...
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Correct me if Im wrong people, but the only thing we are allowed to do is visit the graves of our loved ones & just pray from Allah for their forgiveness. I did see once an Arab sprinkling rose water all over the grave. Is this bidah or jaiz? We are also forbidden to light incense sticks near any grave.
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it is bidah....sadly it happens a lot in pakistan and india...
a muslim's kabar should be plain like the ones in jannat-al-baqih or jannat- al- maalah..If hazrat Usman's (Radi-allah-hu-taala-anha) kabar did not have a katbah...why do peers have it and everyone in pakistan...I know some of the peers were great muslims...but can they compete with the sahabis? If does not apply to sahabis...it should not...
Moreover, drugs are very common outside dargah...If you want ganja just have to go to a dargah :D
molana homer and malik..please explain the following verse
[Yusufali 5:35] O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.
i am not a maulana...and i don't like to post verses and hadith....i am presenting my views on bidah/shirk etc etc..This thread is open for discussion you can give your views on the topic...man verses of quran have very broad meanings as malik just explained...diferent ppl interpret them differently..... ppl in GS do it a lot...instead of just stating verses pls try to explain your viewpoint...there are many ways of coming closer to allah...the best way of getting close to him is by praying to him rather than going to peer regularly and forgetting fajr ki namaaz
the verse i posted talks about waseela..and i will be back and talk about waseela from Quran and Hadith
malik interpreted deeds as waseela and i don't agree with it..thats where the problem comes in..everyone interpretes Quran differently and we need to see what Prophet (pbuh&up) and His Family (a.s.) said about such stuff
also in this topic u have asked many questions..maybe we should discuss one thing at a time..be back
malik thats the issue "waseela" i used to get from my relatives with whom i used to talk - they say that apparently we now need a "waseela" from god in order to to get our duas qabooled and that waseela is a peer. So Allah who listens to all of his banday needs the source from peers....
sheraz bro i have asked many questions but all of them point to a same direction...bidah and shirk although not same but are related issues... a commo thing about them is that both of them only happen in sub-continent apparently..
Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven.” Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, “Allah’s Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar’s Caliphate.” 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, “I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, ‘In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)’. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka’b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, ‘Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid’a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.’ He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night.”
Xactly homie. They then start associating them with God naozubillah. I have seen some do sajdahs in front of pirs. Dont ask me why I was there, I was just in that ars for the dayg...:) u know the mewa channa pilaw.
As the urs started, some of them started bowing in front of the pir, at which point I told my relatives, this is shirk, but they said hush, coz ur statement will cause a commotion.
i just wannna make one thing really clear.....Only and Only Allah can help AND if you ask Allah directly there is nothing wrong with that either...so if someone thinks that anyone other then Allah can hlep them then they are wrong...we say with waseela the chances are better..Allah loves no one more than the Holy Prophet (pbuh&up) and if we make Him a waseela I don't see anything wrong with it
I understand ur term waseela very well, I have come across it many times in Pakistan while conversing with aalims & maulanas. But I dont understand how can nangas & pirs be used as waseelahs or for the fact Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) himself. If this is the case, we would have been instructed by the Almighty.
Darood shareef is supposed to be recited for our beloved Prophet(SAWW), there is a Hadith on that.
sheraaz durood shareef is a very good thing.. Its very good to put it before starting and after completion of every duaaa.... I am just talking about mazaaars, peers as waseela...the reason why peeri muridi is wrong that it encourages shirk..agar koi banda mazaar gaya and then allah ne uski dua qabool ki- woh yeh samjhta hai ke is mazaar pe jaanay se us ki duaa qabool hui aur yeh bhool jata hai ke dua allah hi ne qabool ki hai...thus the associations start
Lets appoint a Pope a la the Christians so that we can use him as a waseela.....and pay him off if we screw so that he will get God to forgive our sins.....how pathetic a concept....waseela.....
And lets also abolish namaz while we are at it, since they would not be accepted unless they come with the parchi of the esteemed waseela bardar, judi pushti, bhung drinking, haal inducing, halway manday walay pir faqirs.......