Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
agree cheguerva just pray to god....we shud have just one thing in mind and that is exact definition of islam and we won't need to go to mazaaars
"Islam is the complete submission and obedience to Allah (God)"
it doesnt say submission and bowing down on mazaars
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
cherguraya..read this hadith from sahih muslim..and tell me why Prophet (pbuh&up) did not get mad at the person who came to him..why did He not say to ask Allah directly..obviously he used Prophet (pbuh&up) as a waseela..he could have asked himself but he did not..so stop being pathetic and call waseela pathetic
Book 004, Number 1955:
Anas b. Malik reported that a person entered the mosque through the door situated on theside of Daral-Qada' during Friday (prayer) and the messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was delivering the sermon while standing. He came and stood in front of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, the camels died and the passages were blocked; so supplicate Allah to send down rain upon us. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raised his hands and then said: (O Allah, send down rain upon us; O Allah, send dowp rain upon us; O Allah, send down rain upon us. Anas said: By Allah, we did not see any cloud or any patch of it, and there was neither any house or building standing between us and the (hillock) Sal'a. There appeared a cloud in the shape of a shield from behind it, and as it (came high) in the sky it spread and then there was a downpour of rain. By Allah, we did not see the sun throughout the week. Then (that very man) came on the coming Friday through the same door when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was standing and delivering the sermon. He stood in front of him and said: Messenger of Allah, our animals died and the passages blocked. Supplicate Allah to stop the rain for us. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) again raised his hands and said: O Allah, let it (rain) fall in our suburbs and not on us, O Allah (send it down) on the hillocks and small mountains and the river-beds and at places where trees grow. The rain stopped, and as we stepped out we were walking in sun- shine. He (the narrator) said to Sharik: I asked Anas b. Malik if he was the same man. He said: I do not know.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
^^
Jazaak Allah Sheraz CT !
mal1k wrote its all because of Lack of education & common sense – this is only in those who do peeri muridi and shirk as written by homer_j_simpson – this lack of education & common sense also exists in those people who condemn it. They bring such kind of question which does not make any sense. They don’t want to think and do in dept research. They don’t want even to listen anything reasonable.
I don’t know why homer_j_simpson want to draw a fine line BETWEEN Bidah and Shirk.
Wasaalam.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
If this is the logic as you wrote above why do you goto Masjid ul Haram and bow down infront of Kaaba. Apply the same logic here.
not refuting you but you should refute shirk and bidah wisely
Your logic is incorrect here.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
so you are talking about Bhung Drinking, & Halway Manday wallay pir faqir.. is there not even a single one who is good in your eyes.. are they all like that? as you are telling.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
It means otherwise going to Mazar is okay - right
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
why do i bow down in masjid al-haram---its allahs house- allah has commanded us because we do sajdah on its direction everyday while praying - allah didnot say anywhere to go and do phool charhaana in mazaar, and bow on ur favorite peers grave...i am not saying going to mazaar is ok or not...my opinion is there shud be no mazaars--- read my prev posts on graves in jannatus baqih - i am discussing bidah and shirk because both of these elements are prevalent in pakistani society- i am debating on them- my logic might have been misleading in that thread i apologize for that- All i wanted to say that if u want to ask anything ask it from allah- peera ko waseelah banaana zaroori nahin...but everyone has his own logic...ppl in sub-continent always come with some kind of excuse in trying to show that mazaars and peers are corrrect
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
I have quoted an ayath before which states very clearly that Allah is closer than your "shah rug" than why do we need Waseela to have our prayers heard. Allah has commanded us many times in Quran to ask him and him only. No third parties are needed to have your dua routed to Allah. Are you by chance telling us that Allah (na-auzobillah) cannot hear us and needs a third party to mitigate?
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
bhai meray if Allah is closer to you than your shah rug then you dont need the Prophet's intercession at the day of Judgement?
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
^
so Allah is not close to us????
Quran 2:186
*And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. *
Quran 50:16
*and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. *
do u think Allah was lying or just joking when he revealed these verses in the Quran????
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
nope.. i was saying that even if He is close to us, that doesnt negate the concept of wasila, because all Muslims believe the Prophet will intercede on our behalf on the day of Judgement.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
yaar kaleem..who wouldnt believe that Allah is close to us? thats not the discussion..if u read the hadith i posted from sahih muslim when a man comes to Prophet (pbuh&up) and makes HIM a waseela..Prophet (pbuh&up) didnt get mad at the person and told him to pray himself since Allah is so close to him but instead HE became the waseela and prayed for him
my point is that surely Allah is closer to everyone..but Allah doesnt like everyone the same..i am sure Allah doesnt like me as much as Prophet Mohummad (pbuh&up)..so if Prophet (pbuh&up) pray for me to Allah...i feel the chances of my dua being accepted are more
do you know atleast what i am trying to say? you can disagree with it but atleast try to understand where i am coming from..its frustrating when i am trying to say one thing and others understand something else
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
Wazeefas are an innovation too. Constantly doing wird of a single word 300 or 500 times is not allowed. Thats not the Prophets way. The Sunnah way of doing zikr, is to say a complete sentence, not just one word and repeating it for like 500 times. The only tasbeeh, as far as i know, the Prophet asked us to do was the 33/33/34 tasbeeh at the end of our Salah, no where else in the hadeeth do i see any indication of wazeefahs or anything like that.
Every form of Ibadah is Haraam, unless it was taught by the Rasool sas. So no matter how good and how pure a task seems, if it was not taught by the Rasool SAS, its not allowed.
As far as Peers and Babajis are concerned, most of the time they tell you do wazifas, and they will help you no matter how unislamic your cause is. They will settle gf/bf matters, they will help you in winning the lottery…and all other unislamic stuff. And usually people are sitting there doing the wazeefa for an absolutely unislamic cause. Peeri thing is highly unislamic, it is a reminiscent of the Christain culture of Sainthood.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
I dont know why do we have to offer arguments and justification in such matters. The concept of Waseelah, could be legal, could be illegal…scholars are still arguing over it, we dont know for sure weather it is allowed in Islam or not. Would’nt it make more sense to keep away from such debatable and uncomfirmed concepts, for the sole purpose of keeping one’s self away from Shirk, just to be on the safe side.
We all know nothing would please Allah and his Rasool more than our attempts to keep away from Shirk at all costs, than why do we have to get involved into these unconfirmed concepts. Why cant we just keep our Deen simple and pure.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
okay, so you do Sajdah on its Direction, right right
but Why Allah has commanded you to do this. is it not Shirt (Nauzbillah) - that Allah is commanding you to do Sijdah to his house - not Him. Think about it. and correct your concepts about Tawheed and Shirk.
no need to apologize for that - it happens and had many times. but becareful because once you mislead people will take you wrong - if you come from the wrong direction.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
Allah IS close to you
BUT tell me
Are you close to Him too?
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
Losing debates come up with these arguments – e.g Kashmir
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
Sahih al Bukhari Volume 8, Book 75, Number 412:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said," Whoever says: “La ilaha illal-lah wahdahu la sharika lahu, lahu-l-mulk wa lahu-l-hamd wa huwa 'ala kulli shai’in qadir,” one hundred times will get the same reward as given for manumitting ten slaves; and one hundred good deeds will be written in his accounts, and one hundred sins will be deducted from his accounts, and it (his saying) will be a shield for him from Satan on that day till night, and nobody will be able to do a better deed except the one who does more than he."
so there’s no limit in this case… one can repeat such zikrs (or certain zikrs) as much as one wants given the Prophet’s (saw) closing words, “except the one who does more than he” which clearly leaves it open ended…
depends what you mean by wasilah…
there is NO disagreement among the scholars on the permissibility of relying on someone’s dua… i.e. you go up to someone and say please make du’a for me to Allah… can you name a scholar who said doing this is haram?
there is also no disagreement that i know of as regards using one’s own good deeds as a means of wasilah… e.g. you make a du’a like: “O Allah! By virtue of my love for your Prophet (saw) please help me…”
this is because your love of the Prophet (saw) is one of your own good deeds… look up the hadith in al Bukhari of the three youths trapped in a cave who each mention one of their own personal good deeds in their duas to Allah…
the areas of disagreement relate to using someone’s status (irrespective of whether they are alive or dead) as a means of wasilah… e.g. you make du’a to Allah by saying, “O Allah! By virtue of the Prophet’s (saw) position with you…” or calling upon those who have left this world and asking them to make du’a for you or help you… certainly if this latter form was permissible the companions would have been the first to call on the Prophet’s (saw) assistance in this way but they did not…
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
Jigar, I was reading a Hadith stating that if a person recites Darood Shareef 1000 times in a day, he will not die unless he makes a place in heaven. Now this is contradicting ur statement, or the Hadith is fabricated. Please enlighten us here.
Re: Bidah/Shirk/Peeri Muridi
^ there is no restriction from the Prophet (saw) as to how many times one can and should recite durood on him... for example there is general encouragement from him (saw) to increase or recite abundantly the durood on him on Fridays without any apparent limit or restriction... so even if the hadith you read was fabricated it doesn't necessarily cancel out the point you are making...