Bhai, lets hear the reply to this ...

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Originally posted by Sher:

How can God creat human beings and then set some of them against the others. How can God send down Bible as God’s word and after some hundreds years sent Quran as HIS word which clashes with Bible. If both of the books are word of God then why do they contradict. OK, you would say that Bible has been tempered and Quran is not cos Quran is protected by God himself. Well, why God did not protect Bible? Doesn’t Quran say that Bible is the word of God?

I have exactly the same questions as Sher here. Someone care to explain please.

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first, its Injeel and not Bible which is the Word of God....
Word of God, like Quran, has to remain fixed....
but in Bible's case, u see a new edition every year and it differs from publisher to publisher....

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A ‘text’ and ‘translation’ cannot be exactly the same – Can come close to it. And according to a Muslim Scholar, he said the most difficult book in the world to translate, is the Glorious Qur’an. Because the language of the Qur’an is so eloquent, it, is so superior, so noble - And one word in Arabic, has got several meanings. Therefore to translate the Qur’an, is the most difficult - It is not the same. And if there is a mistake in the translation, it is a human handiwork - the human being who is translating - he is to blame, not Almighty God.

Was Bible revealed in English?
No! - Bible was not revealed in English - It is Old Testament in Hebrew, New Testament in Greek. Though Jesus Christ peace be upon him, spoke Hebrew - But the original Manuscript that you have – it is in Greek. The Old Testament, the original Hebrew is not available - do you know that? The Hebrew translation of the Old Testament is from the Greek - So even the original Old Testament, which is in Hebrew, is not present in Hebrew. So you have a double problem - No wonder you have scribal errors, etc. But the Qur’an–Alhamdulillah, the original Arabic is maintained.

Were Revelations revealed to Jesus Christ peace be upon him, and to Moses peace be upon him.

We believe the Qur’an says in Surah Al-Rad, Chapter. 13, Verse 38, that Allah Subhanawataala has sent down several Revelations. By name only 4 are mentioned - The Torah the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur’an. The Torah is the Wahi, which was given to Moses, peace be upon him. The Zaboor is the Revelation, the Wahi which was given to David, peace be upon him. Injeel is the Revelation, Wahi which was given to Jesus, peace be upon him. And Qur’an is the last and final Revelation which was given to the last and final Messenger, Prophet Mohammed, may peace be upon him. But the present Bible is not the Injeel, which we believe in, which, was revealed to Jesus Christ peace be upon him.

It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the Prophets of God and all revelations of God. However, the present day Bible has the first five books of the Old Testament attributed to Moses and the Psalms attributed to David. Moreover the New Testament or the four Gospels of the New Testament are not the Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel, which the Qur’an refers to. These books of the present day Bible may partly contain the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.

The Qur’an presents all the different prophets of Allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: Almighty God, Allah. This is why the Qur’an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur’an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.

Another name for the Qur’an is the ‘The Furqan’ which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the Qur’an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of God.

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I wanted to reply to the question earlier when it was asked by Sher in the thread which I started to address his quries but since the question was possed by another brother of mine who is extreemly busy with PMs and other things has not answered yet.
Now since you have brought it out of there I felt like addressing it. I dont want people to asume that Muslims are not 'convinced' of what they believe in. I didnt want the people to asume that I blindly follow what I do. Another explanation would help further

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Qur’an says in several places. Qur’an says in Surah Fatir, Ch. No. 35, Verse No. 24, ‘There is not a nation to whom we have not sent a warner or a guide’.
The Qur’an says in Surah Rad, Ch. No. 13, Verse No. 7‘And to every nation we have sent a warner’.

As far as believin in other prophets and scripts are concerned. By name the Qur’an mentions 25 prophets by name Adam, Abraham, Moses, Ismail, Jesus, Muhammad (May peace be upon them all). But according to the traditions, there are more than 124,000 prophets sent on the face of the earth. By name we know only 25. Others may be, may not be, we can not say for sure. If you read the Vedas it is mentioned in the Yajurveda, Ch. No. 3, Verse No. 32 ‘Of that God, you cannot make any image’. The Yajurveda, says in Ch. No. 33, Verse No. 3, God is formless and bodiless. The same Yajurveda, Ch. No. 40, Verse No. 8, says God has no image, has got no body. Same Yajurveda, Ch. No. 40, Verse No. 9, says that all those who worship the uncreated things, they are in darkness and it continues ‘Of that God’ ‘There is only one God, not a second one, not in the least bit’.

BIBLE:
The prophecy of coming of the unlettered Prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned."
[Isaiah 29:12]

We believe in it. We have got no objection in accepting these portions of scriptures. They may be the word of God, Qur’an is the criteria to judge what is right, what is wrong because it is the last and final revelation. We Muslims have got no objection in accepting all these things as the word of God. But there may be other things as I said, there may be interpolation:
1. "And Jesus went . . . preaching the gospel . . . and healing every disease among the people." (Matthew 9:35)
2. "... but whosoever shall lose his fife for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it." (Mark 8:35)
3. "... preached the gospel. . ." (Luke 20:1)

The "gospel" is a frequently-used word, but what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus. The Christians boast about the Gospels according to St. Matthew, according to St. Mark, according to St. Luke and according to St. John, but there is not a single Gospel "according" to (St.) Jesus himself! We sincerely believe that everything Christ (May the peace and blessings of God be upon him) preached was from God. That was the Injeel, the good news and the guidance of God for the Children of Israel. In his life-time Jesus never wrote a single word, nor did he instruct anyone to do so. What passes off as the "GOSPELS" today are the works of anonymous hands!

Mrs. Ellen G. White, a "prophetess" of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, in her Bible Commentary Vol. 1, page 14, has this confession to make about the fallibility of the "Holy Bible."
"THE BIBLE WE READ TODAY IS THE WORK OF MANY COPYISTS WHO HAVE IN MOST INSTANCES DONE THEIR WORK WITH MARVELLOUS ACCURACY. BUT COPYISTS HAVE NOT BEEN INFALLIBLE, AND GOD MOST EVIDENTLY HAS NOT SEEN FIT TO PRESERVE THEM ALTOGETHER FROM ERROR IN TRANSCRIBING."
In the following pages of her commentary, Mrs. White testifies further: "I SAW THAT GOD HAD ESPECIALLY GUARDED THE BIBLE" (from what?) "YET WHEN COPIES OF IT WERE FEW, LEARNED MEN HAD IN SOME INSTANCES CHANGED THE WORDS, THINKING THAT THEY WERE MAKING IT PLAIN, WHEN IN REALITY THEY WERE MYSTIFYING THAT WHICH WAS PLAIN, BY CAUSING IT TO LEAN TO THEIR ESTABLISHED VIEWS, WHICH WERE GOVERNED BY TRADITION."

There may be human works, which we cannot accept as the word of God. As there are unscientific facts in the Bible, the same also are there in the Vedas. I do not want to discuss that so we have got no objection that originally Vedas may have been the word of God. Injeel – the Qur’an says Injeel is the wahi given to Isa Alai salaam. It is the revelation given to Jesus (May peace be upon him) so we can say for sure that Injeel was the word of God. And regarding the messengers. Yes! There are several messengers.

Earlier scripts were also time bound. They were only meant for those people at that time and their message is not till eternity. Qur’an is the last and final message is not till eternity. Qur’an is the last and final message of Allah (SWT) even if Injeel, even if Bible, they were for that time not for today. Qur’an is the last and final word of God and the last and messenger is Prophet Muhammad (May peace be upon him). We have to follow the Qur’an and the prophet. Hope that answers the question.

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I've mostly quoted various scholars. My words are very little.

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stupid idiot, this didn't answer the questions my original post put up (in sher's words).

All these excerpts are meant to prove that Bible is totally flawed, unless it matches the word of Qur'an. This is not a very good logic to be used when a "Muslim" is trying to prove that Bible is not the word of God. An independent observer would like to hear an unbiased argument, the source of which is not the Qur'an. But anyways.

It may be the case that Bible is not the true word of God but why did God's message have to come in parts ... in different regions of the world and at different times? Why didn't God take it upon Him to protect the previous books ... as you say has been the case with the Qur'an?

Are you saying that God had to re-sent his original message three times (actually, probably much more than three?) because humans would discard and modify the original messages? And so the formation of three major religions of the world and consequently the three big divisions in the human population is to be blamed on the humans?

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All previous prophets sent only for their people & Muhammad [s] was sent for whole human kind.

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:smack: :stupid:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *

This is an anti-islamic site:

[/QUOTE]

Not just Islam, but against religion as a whole... they believe their criticisms apply to "all religions" - whether Islam, Judaism, Qadianism, Hinduism...

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *

Well, that obviously rules you out...

by the way, it sounded a little too eloquent to have come from your unbiased mind ;-)
[/QUOTE]

Mate,,, I have a right to do that COS,,, IT IS my own. And sure we can talk about eloquence when ever you ready

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gupguppy chanda, zara hosla karo. itna ghussa mat hovo.

You are the wise one among us, the know-it-all. Kindly share your knowledge with us. Take a Muslim birather on to the siraat-e-mustaqeem. Please dont try to hide your knowledge by calling people names when they ask you a question. That is way too humble of you.

seedhe tareeke se aa ker mere sawalaat ke jawabaat tehreer fermaein. Much thanks.

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gupguppy, why do the different books sent by the same God apparently contradict, and why was there a need to have human beings divided into three divisions (three major religions), which has given rise to nothing but hatred and bloodshed? Thanks.

ps. I love you too :)

Later.

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God's word doesn't contradict and he revealed one religion since time began...

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Questions such as 'why did God do this?' 'Why would God do that?' are highly stupid and more or less serve to cause mischief.

When you believe in God you realize that God has the power to do anything, and he does just that. He has a plan and he follows that plan.

First of all, pitting man against man is not something Allah does but rather man does himself by following Shaitan and not Allah.

Secondly, Allah sent down his word, he chose not to protect all but the least one which is the Quran, thats his choice too.

Think about it, in giving humanity the freedom of will he has given humanity the choice to choose their own path. There are two very clear paths, the path to victory and the path to destruction. He could have easily taken the choice away from us and then we would just be mindless followers. Would you rather be a mindless follower or would you rather have a choice and then come to the conclusion of your own will ?

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Re: Bhai, lets hear the reply to this ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Wane: *
How can God creat human beings and then set some of them against the others. How can God send down Bible as God's word and after some hundreds years sent Quran as HIS word which clashes with Bible. If both of the books are word of God then why do they contradict. OK, you would say that Bible has been tempered and Quran is not cos Quran is protected by God himself. Well, why God did not protect Bible? Doesn't Quran say that Bible is the word of God?
[/QUOTE]
Although I am not sure if Sher or Wane will really get a good response, anyway, let me try as well.

Its my belief that there is no conflict between the message revealed on Hazrat Musa (Peace be upon him), Hazrat Isa (Peace be upon him) or Hazrat Muhammad (Peace be upon him), or infact any other messangers throughout history of mankind. There are differences, however. The most critical message was always of monotheism, and that remains consistent from Adam (Peace be upon him) to Muhammad. There is no conflict there.

Then there are messages which deal with how to live our lives. There are basically four divine texts that are preserved till now, Psalms, Old Testament, New Testament and Quran. Some are very basic and short, some are very detailed. Also, with the passage of time, the message grew more detailed and more encompassing. However, with Islam, the message is the most comprehensive, compared to all previous messages, and it also fine-tunes and completes some of the things that were revealed to previous messangers.

Hazrat Isa did not bring a new sharia. He himself said that he is continuing the sharia of Hazrat Musa. That is why in the Bible you have both the New and the Old Testament. Islam is different. The "sharia" of Islam, cancels out all previous sharia revealed to all previous messangers. That is my belief, and you can all choose to believe whatever you want. As an example, while deciding over a murder case Christ said "let the one amongst you who is not a sinner, cast the first stone". On the same issue, Muhammad was given the sharia that an eye for an eye, and no son shall bear the punishment for his father. This is clearly different. And with Islam, all previous sharia are cancelled. So while we do believe that all prior messangers are from Allah and all previous divine texts are from Allah, it is Islam that is the most refined and the most mature form of revelation, and after this, there will be no more Prophets.

Not sure if this answers the question, or makes it clear to the reader, but these are just my views.

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Re: Re: Bhai, lets hear the reply to this ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *

Hazrat Isa did not bring a new sharia.
[/quote]

He did amend the previous sharia regarding some halal and haram... it says so in the Qur'an.

[quote]
As an example, while deciding over a murder case Christ said "let the one amongst you who is not a sinner, cast the first stone".
[/quote]

It wasn't a murder case... it involved judgement in a case of adultery/fornication... it also happens to be one of the most famous fabricated verses in the Bible... many Christian scholars reject it.

[quote]
On the same issue, Muhammad was given the sharia that an eye for an eye...
[/quote]

This is mentioned in the Qur'an as a reminder to the Jews that this sharia law was given to them in their Torah... although one could argue that its inclusion in the Qur'an even as a reference to a Torah-law means that Muslims are being asked to adopt it as well... read the verse...

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^ Thanks.

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Did you find the verses (Prophet Isa amending sharia and 'eye for an eye')?

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Well, its always good and appreciated to be corrected promptly.

I will look 'em up. If you have any online resources, pls share. By the way, I was writing from my memory, so its entirely possible, that the few things you corrected were wrong.

Although, I still feel, the essence of the post remains the same.