Salman: you should not have invoked people's emotions by posting this thread :-)
^ On the contrary, I think this thread makes for interesting read. The readers can judge where their priorities lie and how they react to offensive situations on a personal level.
The way this thread is formulated is a bit too provocative, but then again, its the choice of the poster.
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Originally posted by Faisal: *
^ On the contrary,* I think this thread makes for interesting read. The readers can judge where their priorities lie and how they react to offensive situations on a personal level.**
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and I think you really translated my sentence what I precisely wanted to say :-) Thanks...
Then you should say it more succinctly. :-P
Anyway, I may not agree with most things suggested here, and I certainly don’t agree that we are a baighairat ummah just because we don’t resort to name-calling, but I decidedly support the right of opinion by Salman to put his thoughts in words and initiate a discussion. That’s what GUPSHUP is for. :-)
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Then you should say it more succinctly. :-P
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It could've caused the very same people to shift the target to the poster rather than the discussion :-p
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Originally posted by NeSCio: *
two things struck me most in this thread. Firstly, perhaps unconsciously, why do you take disrespect of **female* family members as the temporary reference against which you want to portray the disrespect of the Prophet? Why not just all family members?
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the analogy does hold to a certain extent. from where we come from, women traditionally rely on their men for protection/redemption/ghairat-displays, typically because they're incapable both physically and socially of doing it themselves.
defence of your country or your family name could probably also be likened to blasphemy should the author wish to spin it that way.
likewise our Prophet, not physically present at this time is the defenceless target of attacks which need to be fended off. im guessing anything importart and abstract/defenceless would fit.
household women work because they're the most emotive in our culture. im guessing less likely in other ones.
IMO whatever your reaction to such abuse, you're likely to be thinking about the same thing.. getting this guy to stop. so, ideally Salman and yourself shouldnt be at each others throats so often.
and i highly doubt he's about to slit anyones throat anytime soon faisal.
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Secondly, can you clearly state an instance in which disrespect of the Prophet occurred....and hence tell me if their is a universal definition of when something becomes disrespect? Perhaps you can answer this question also in that thread by me about disrespect.
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im guessing rangeela nabi would definitely qualify.
**
Those who Molest Allah and His Apostle, Allah has Cursed them in This World and in the Hereafter, and has Prepared for them a Humiliating Punishment**
(al-Quran 33:57)
Love of Holy Prophet Mohammed :saw: is the most precious possession of any Muslim. He whose heart is devoid of such love, his faith is incomplete. True faithful is the one who holds Holy Prophet Mohammed :saw: dearer than his life, his children, his parents and all his worldly possessions. It is by virtue of this love that even a most impious person will not tolerate a bad remark for The Holy Prophet:saw:. Whenever any Rajpal has uttered impieties against The Prophet :saw:, Allah has sent some Ghazi Alam Deen Shaheed. Unislamic forces, on the other hand, have always given protection to such rogues. Salman Rushdi and Tasleema Nasrin are starking examples.
Re: Bhagairat Ummah
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*Originally posted by SalmanNY: *
*MY QUESTION IS WHY ALL OF YOU WHO SAY THAT ONE SHOULD BE FORGIVING WHENEVER SOMEONE CHALLENGES THE RESPECT OF PROPHET MOHAMMAD SAW, WHY YOU ARE NOT AS FORGIVING WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS ? *
WHY YOUR BLOOD BOILS MORE WHEN SOMEONE PLAYS WITH THE RESPECT OF YOUR MOTHER OR SISTER AS COMPARE TO SOMEONE PLAYING WITH THE RESPECT OF PROPHET MOHAMMAD SAW?
BHAGAIARAT UMMAH !!!
-Salman
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That doesn't make anyone baghairat that just means they are living and relating in their own times not some distant point in history. People who don't apply the religion to their own times end up throwing hand grenades in mosques because they belong to Sunnis/Shias/Ahmadis etc and they are more concerned who did what 1000 yrs ago than what goes on in the present.
The problem with this myopic viewpoint is that the author of the thread thinks that the world is divided between complete fundamentalists and Salman Rushdie with nothing in between.
Re: Bhagairat Ummah
Not only bhagairat but weak and pale…It is because of their inability, incapacity and weakness to carry the flag of Islam and all its honours with them proudly into the ages…Result of a defeatist mentality which folds at the first sign of opposition…
It is the mentality which proclaims, Islam was for then and not for now…Someone explain to them, that if the words of Allah :swt: were for then, then Allah was for then too…If you leave the words of Allah behind, Allah :swt: will leave you behind, and you will always be a loser, on earth as well as Aakhira…
Strength is not in showing how pathetically wishy washy we are, strength is showing how firm we are in our beliefs and Aqeedah, despite our heads be cut, our limbs be torn and our blood be spilt, we shall not move from the paths of the Prophets and the words of Allah…We are Muslims, destined to do the work of Prophets, and may Allah give us success, Ameen…
Throw us in the fire like Ibrahim :as:, insult us like Hazrat Nuh :as:, put us on the Crucifix like you tried with Hazrat Eesa (as) or spit on us and throw us out of our homes like our Prophet (saw), we are Muslims…We will not sway from the path of Allah (swt), InshAllah…
May Allah :swt: give us strength, Ameen…
Re: Re: Bhagairat Ummah
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*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Strength is not in showing how pathetically wishy washy we are, strength is showing how firm we are in our beliefs and Aqeedah, despite our heads be cut, our limbs be torn and our blood be spilt, we shall not move from the paths of the Prophets and the words of Allah...We are Muslims, destined to do the work of Prophets, and may Allah give us success, Ameen...
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If you want to spill your blood and gain Jannah what are you waiting for? it won't happen typing on that keyboard somewhere in Bradford. Get yourself to Chechnya or Iraq I'm sure you can find the means instead of making wishy washy excuses bro :)
Re: Re: Re: Bhagairat Ummah
You actually make it sound as if its a really funny thing and those who die for the cause of Allah :swt: just die…
My friend, if you get a micro glimpse of what those who die in the way of Allah :swt: receive, you will want to sacrifice yourself then and there…One day in the life of a martyr will not equal an eternity of pleasure on earth…
for the reminder…May Allah :swt: accept your dua and I leave this world as a Shaheed and not on a computer in Bradford…And who knows, maybe Shahadat will come to me intead of me going to it…
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That’s a wishy washy answer Lajjo, the martyr who wishes to embrace shahadat has more on his mind than writing silly stories about Rundis in Lahore, he would not be held back by his parents brothers or sisters, he would hike by foot if necessary to MAKE the shahadat a reality rather than wishy-washily wait for it to arrive while buttering his toast in Bradford. that’s just my opinion though and I’m no scholar I admit.
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Since you yourself are so strong and bold brother, lead on…Lead by example and I promise you I shall follow you…Where do you plan to go…Iraq? Chechnya?
Since you are so gung-ho in telling me to embrace Shahadat I can only imagine your own urge to embrace it…So tell me, where do you want to meet up? We’ll go side by side…I am ready to come to you so we both go together, what do you say? No wishy washy stuff…I am serious…Let’s meet up…And may Allah :swt: make us embrace Shahadat together…
Lajjo bhai, that’s another wishy-washy answer. I’d rather go watch basant in Lahore if truth be told. Are you waiting on someone like me, one of the bagahirat Ummah to fulfil your own duties? 
Tut tut Lajjo, that’s not good enough. Let me know when you are going though and I promise we will organise a sincere farewell party on GS 
You’d rather preach that I go to Jihad and you’d go and watch basant? You are telling me to do something which you yourself are not willing to do…Chicken…:cluckcluck:
What hypocrisy…
Salman’s post is very appropriate…A shameless Ummah indeed…
No i’d rather ask you to do what YOU preach which is Jihad while I do what I preach which is watch basant. So the hypocrisy is on your part my Jihad-shy buddy 
a shameless Ummah indeed, I agree
Sorry to intrude, who and where is this ummah we are talking about?
Start with definition please.
Re: Re: Bhagairat Ummah
this point is partly sad as according to the teachings of Quran, when it comes to do good deeds and understanding ahkaam of ALLAH:swt:, there is NO other way than Rasoolulah:saw:'s way …
Also, your assumption about distinction b/w two types is very true.. because Islam is ‘either take it or leave it’ package… ALLAH himself says in quran that O’ you who beleive Enter into the FOLD of ISLAM completely
and when we are reminded by what jews used to do, it means if we do it, we are as wrong as they were:
So You take part of the Book which you like and reject the rest?
Rest of your points hold some degree of sense though!
Lajawab: you make a very very logically invalid statement here.
let’s make it simple, and use symbols: A states a and B advocates b. If B tells A, why he is not doing a…then impossibly can A counter that by saying that’s because B is not doing a (because the premisse is that B rejects a and supports b). The only argument A can bring against B is why B is not doing b.
clearly, you (=A) are telling MrX (=B) to do a, whereas he has repeatedly told you he does not believe in the same version of a as you do; he namely believes in b. So his not doing a can impossibly be called hypocrism
Mr. sorry to interfere but…do u mean that jihad is not ur duty ?..
or is it that ur name starts with BAl and ends with thakery …as u preach basant and it was balli who said that men killed during basant are our shuhdah ?..
** SABI**
Ummah is general muslim pubilc…which tries to help their fellow muslims either with thier life, with thier pen , or with thier money…
it ws the ummah which started khilafah movement…it was our ummah which propted mujahideen from all over the world to gather and fight aginst oppressor (in afghanistan-iraq-kashmir-chehcniya).
plz keep in mind that i am ponly talking about existence of ummah ..not the strenght of our ummah…and genrally the state of ummah is truly reflected by salman…
On the contrary manafiqeen are those who oppose any of the above activity…