Beware Pashtunistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Beware Pashtunistan

See Pak-One you just said you love your country "Pakistan". Now don't go double-talk on me. Please!

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Re: Beware Pashtunistan

I do. Where is the double-talk? The TSNM situation was akin to the northern states of Nigeria imposing Sharia in a given area. TSNM was not talking about secession from Pakistan in 90s.

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It seems suicide bombing has become a pashtun nationalist thing like it is for tamil tigers. Very interesting. Didn't know it was part of pashtunwali.

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  1. Soft borders do not make nations, hard ones do. Soft border shenanigan has been terrible for Afghanistan. Afghan lefties should have fixed the border and gotten on with rebuilding their country. Instead they became pesky dogs continously latched on to the Pakistani bumpers.

Even now, it is bad for Afghanis and worse for Pakistan to not have agreeable boundary with Afghanis.

  1. You must be kidding me. Badams (almonds) now linked to Akhrots? What hath you smoking?

This was tongue in cheek suggestion to eat more badam to help improve memory. This is an old wives tale so often used in Pakistan.

Man talk about these so called analysts looking for racism in tiny badams. hahah!

  1. I don't have a problem accommodating a "lost" family member. However if he becomes crazy to put a gun on another family member, then all bets are off.

The first effort would be to put him in mental hospital, if he still is out of control and a threat, then next step is Sharia justice.

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This is why Pakistan needs to pay attention to its people. Its neglect has caused this. Even civilized people are fighting over these things, and instead of thinking of themselves as Pakistanis first in time of a crisis, they are thinking of their own ethnicities first.

Pakistan's biggest failure: it never built unity and harmony among the different cultures, despite the fact we united together to form a country based on our common religious ground. Nor did we encourage tolerance of one another.

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Do you have any issue with an army leader usin guns to take power?

The Random Thread
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Here is an article about the 90s situation in Swat. Does this really compare with disturbances in Karachi? Sounds like it was worse but it was handled differently by the Pashtun interior minister of the time because of difference of ethinicities involved. In Karachi, there was no problem with the FC murdering thousands because they were deemed not patriotic, not their own people. In Swat (then and today) we see police, FC and army men refusing to fight their own brethern.

Violence returns to Swat Friday, November 02, 2007By Rahimullah Yusufzai

Thirteen years ago in 1994, Swat was in flames as it is nowadays. The movement for enforcement of Shariah had spread like wildfire in the whole of the then Malakand division but it was strongest in the scenic Swat valley and also the most violent. Though an operation against the militants was launched with the paramilitary Frontier Corps in the lead, the conflict was eventually resolved through political means.

There are many similarities in the two violent uprisings in Swat. Both were spearheaded by the Tanzim Nifaz Shariat-i-Mohammadi (TNSM), an Islamic organization that was legal in 1994 and is now banned. As was the case 13 years ago, the loosely-organized TNSM and its offshoots are still strong in the Matta tehsil of Swat and in villages on the banks of river Swat such as Kabal, Kanju, Mamdheray, Bara Banday, Kuza Banday, Sangota, Charbagh, Manglawar, Khwazakhela, etc. The TNSM founder Maulana Sufi Mohammad led the campaign for enforcement of Shariah in 1994 and now his 32-year old son-in-law Maulana Fazlullah is in command.

In a way, the armed struggle for enforcement of Shariah made more gains in a short period of time than the one now underway in Swat. The militants managed to occupy the Saidu Sharif airport and took command of the Ayub Bridge near Mingora to cut off the entire stretch of territory up to Matta. They set up roadside checkpoints and the road beyond Mingora to Khwazakhela was also in their control. Matta town fell to the militants and 33 government employees including judges and civil and police officers were made hostages. In addition, the militants had abducted 165 personnel of the security forces including three army captains.

It was a desperate situation for the government as its writ no longer ran in parts of Swat. Violence had also occurred in the adjoining Dir district, native place of Maulana Sufi Mohammad now divided into Upper Dir and Lower Dir districts. Government installations had also come under attack in Bajaur, one of the seven Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) which at that time was part of Malakand division and even now is partially under the influence of the remnants of TNSM led pro-Taliban military commander Maulana Faqir Mohammad. Acts of violence following pro-Shariah demonstrations were also reported from Buner, Shangla and Chitral in Malakand division and from the adjacent Kohistan district of Hazara. As has been their practice, the Kohistanis had blocked the Karakoram Highway linking Pakistan with China across Gilgit and Khunjerab Pass in Northern Areas at places like Bisham, Pattan, Dassu and Chilas to show solidarity with Maulana Sufi Mohammad and demand enforcement of Shariah in their area as well. In adjoining Battagram, the famed Silk Route, or the Karakoram Highway, was blocked by armed protestors at a bridge over river Indus at Thakot.

Major General Fazal Ghafoor, the Inspector General of Frontier Corps (IGFC), soon realized that military operation to dislodge the armed militants from hilltops all along the main road to the twin towns of Mingora and Saidu Sharif and beyond would be long and costly. His helicopter had been fired at and his troops were facing stiff resistance as they began action at Batkhela in Malakand Agency and moved to Odigram in Swat. He was required to reassert the government’s writ and to retake the Saidu Sharif airport and Matta from the control of the TNSM activists. Pakistan Army was willing to join the fight but it was wisely restrained to allow the two FC’s — Frontier Corps and Frontier Constabulary —, along with the Frontier Police to accomplish the job.

A few men holding important government positions now were also principal actors in the 1994 conflict. Interior minister Aftab Sherpao was then the chief minister of NWFP and was still part of the mainstream PPP. Senior bureaucrat Ejaz Rahim was chief secretay of the province. Mohammad Sharif Virk, presently Inspector General of Police, NWFP, was DIG Police for Malakand Range and was based in Swat. Major General (Retd) Naseerullah Babar, now estranged from the PPP over its controversial ‘deal’ with President General Pervez Musharraf, was interior minister in then prime minister Benazir Bhutto’s cabinet.

Major General Ghafoor, who became a diplomat after retirement and served as ambassador, felt the best way to defuse the situation was to get hold of Maulana Sufi Mohammad and prevail upon him to advise his followers to end occupation of government installations and release hostages. The General was lucky to find the Maulana just as he was climbing a hill somewhere near Kanju to enter a bunker built by TNSM militants. The Maulana, along with some of his lieutenants and another son-in-law named Naseeb Bacha, were taken into custody and flown in helicopter to Saidu Sharif for talks with government functionaries. Initially, the Maulana refused to eat by arguing that it was “haram” (sinful) for him to partake of anything provided by the government. Gradually, he was convinced that this wasn’t so and he began eating and drinking at government guesthouses officers’ mess. Eventually, the Maulana agreed to fly to all those places along with Major General Ghafoor where the TNSM activists had occupied hilltops, blocked roads and seized government offices. With a mike in his hand, he would urge his followers to give up the blockade and return to their homes. Initially, the “torpatki,” or black-turbaned TNSM members, would not believe their eyes that their revered leader was flying in a helicopter in the company of a General but soon they would realize that it was none other than Maulana Sufi Mohammad in his usual gear and familiar voice. Obeying the “Ameer” or leader was the basic part of the training that the disciplined TNSM cadres had received and disobeying him amounted to a sin. They obeyed the Maulana’s orders, removed the roadblocks, descended from the hills and went home.

By sunset, the Maulana flew to Khwazakhela where around 15,000 men were waiting for him. He led the Maghrib prayers in an open ground but only the seven army officers, civil servants and his close TNSM aides joined him. Climbing an armoured personnel carrier (APC), he used the hand-mike to first reprimand his followers for not offering prayers after him and then remind him that he had never ordered them to pick up the gun and fight their own troops. The simple and pious cleric with the forceful personality could afford to criticize his men because they believed in him. By night, the hostages had been freed, roads were open and fighters had demobilized. The next day, the Maulana was flown to Kohistan where he prevailed upon his supporters to end the blockade of Karakoram Highway.

The Sherpao-led PPP government in NWFP agreed to the Maulana’s demand to enforce Shariah in Malakand division by promulgating the Nizam-i-Adl ordinance and setting up Qazi courts. However, the Maulana wasn’t satisfied as the package of Shariah reforms didn’t come up to his expectations. But he couldn’t organize another uprising after having convinced his TNSM followers that peaceful means rather than the military option would help them reach their goal of complete Shariah in Malakand. Events overtook him and TNSM subsequently and he landed in prison in Dera Ismail Khan in late 2001 after leading up to 10,000 of his poorly armed followers on a disastrous campaign to fight on the side of the Taliban against US-led forces in Afghanistan. He has refused to apply for bail and seek release, although all others in jail with him including son-in-law Maulana Fazlullah won their freedom long ago.

The government should consider releasing the Maulana and using his influence as it did in 1994 to defuse the volatile situation in Swat. He may be useful in neutralizing son-in-law Fazlullah. Though he has expelled Fazlullah from TNSM after objecting to his violent ways, it is possible that the elderly Sufi Mohammad would still have enough influence on the TNSM cadres to convince them to disarm. It is true that Swat of 2007 is different than the one in 1994 with all those suicide bombings and beheadings carried out by the militants and the use of gunship helicopters and artillery guns by the paramilitary forces, one should have faith in the good-natured Swatis who overwhelmingly seek peace in their heavenly valley. Besides, the government should agree to the demand of people of Swat and other districts of the erstwhile Malakand division for enforcement of Shariah. In 1994, the government accepted this demand and half-heartedly enforced a diluted form of Shariah. It could bring improvements in that ordinance keeping in view the aspirations of majority of Swatis because dissatisfied people would continue to challenge the writ of the state every few years if their demands are not met.

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Re: Beware Pashtunistan

“Beware Pashtunistan” is the title of the article that I posted. Did you even read it? And what did say that I deserve to be called a racist ? :confused:

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Now you know it.

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Selig Harrison (the author of the quoted essay) is a leftie Westerner. He for a moment could be excused for suggesting a “race” based entity called Pashtoonistan.

You on the other hand know very well the culture and still become bhonpoo (proponent) of the racial entity.

BTW it was Pak-one who injected the “race card” in this thread after your posting. So go have chai with him instead of posting useless and unrelated objections.

Peace and salaams.

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This was a great article. It pretty much highlights the situation of 90s and the proper resolution.

This can not be compared to Karachi because the TSNM situation was based on religion and not ethnicity. Even though TSNM is heavily Pakhtun, the flag of Pakhtunistan did not go up in the 90s. It was an isolated incident, which is NOTHING compared to the urban guerrilla warfare of Karachi where the Govt and the split dissidents factions destroyed the city. Nor can it be compared to the targeting of Islamic scholars by opposing sects in Punjab.

Karachi was a sustained civil war which continued over many years and threatened to permanently destroy the social fabric of the city.

You can't tell me it was worse because I was there and I visited Karachi. The article doesn't mention anything about civilians getting harmed while in Karachi that was not the case. As for the ethnicities of the people involved, all I can say is that Pakistani politicians and army men are no angels across the board.

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You are a racist par excellence, furthermore you are an anti-Islamic bigot. I hope that you are sitting pretty in the West because you should not be associated with Pakistan.

The Random Thread
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Well, lets see, the article mentions
1) The movement in Swat was violent.
2) The TNSM people were armed with heavy weapons and had driven out police and FC .
3) The militants had occupied the airport, bridges and had cut off the entire territory.
4) The militants had set up check points on the roads. They controlled who travelled on the roads.
5) The militants occupied governments buildings and offices and held government employees, judges, police officers, civilian officers and 165 army men including three captains.
6) The government had no writ in Swat. It was a full blown rebellion insurgency.
7) It was a desperate situation for the government as the trouble was spreading to adjoining areas. Governement installations were under attack.
8) The major land route to China, Korakram Highway had been blocked by armed militants. A very serious national security situation for Pakistan.
9) FC and army were under attack, even their helicopters were getting shot at.

You think while all this was happening civilians and security personnels were not getting harmed, like they were in Karachi? How many army men, judges and police officials were made hostages in Karachi? Did government lose any office, airport, police station in Karachi? Was the government facing a insurgency and rebellion in Karachi? Did the government lose its writ in Karachi? The answer to all of these questions is no. If one is given the description of the situations in Swat and Karachi in 90s without telling the exact location, which situation would one choose for political kid glove treatment and which situation would one choose for iron hand killings and arrests?

The Random Thread
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I will attempt to answer the points in comparison to Karachi:

**
1) The movement in Swat was violent.
**

The situation was much worse in Karachi. Movements can be violent but comparing the destruction of property and loss of human life, there is no contest. Karachi had thousands of murders and the TSNM incident is miniscule in comparison.

**
2) The TNSM people were armed with heavy weapons and had driven out police and FC .
**

Sure. Do you think that they were playing with stones in Karachi? The violence in Karachi was supported by enemy nations and Pakistani expats. TSNM was comparatively localized.

Oh yes the police and the military did fight in Karachi, so you had Pakistan's largest city an open battlefield.

**
3) The militants had occupied the airport, bridges and had cut off the entire territory.
4) The militants had set up check points on the roads. They controlled who travelled on the roads.
5) The militants occupied governments buildings and offices and held government employees, judges, police officers, civilian officers and 165 army men including three captains.
**

Sure. There was NO detention of the common man. Everyone that was effected was linked to the government that the TSNM deemed not Islamic enough. Compare this to Karachi where no-go areas were set up. Average citizens were caught in a daily cross fire. Businesses collapsed. All this in the Financial/Industrial center of the country. You can't compare Saidu Sharif airport or NWFP smaller buildings to Karachi in importance and destruction.

**
6) The government had no writ in Swat. It was a full blown rebellion insurgency.
**

Same was true in Karachi.

**
7) It was a desperate situation for the government as the trouble was spreading to adjoining areas. Governement installations were under attack.
8) The major land route to China, Korakram Highway had been blocked by armed militants. A very serious national security situation for Pakistan.
9) FC and army were under attack, even their helicopters were getting shot at.
**

It was an isolated incident, where the government agreed to the demands of TSNM because on the whole it was NOT against Pakistan. Calling for Sharia law in a country billed as the "Islamic Republic of Pakistan" is nothing compared to the dirty ethnic politics and the extra-judicial killings of Kararchi.

TSNM was/is not a nationalist/secessionist movement unlike the warring groups in Karachi during the 1990s.

**
You think while all this was happening civilians and security personnels were not getting harmed, like they were in Karachi?

**

What is the # casualties? The article clearly states the amount. Compared to Karachi, drop in the bucket.

**
How many army men, judges and police officials were made hostages in Karachi? Did government lose any office, airport, police station in Karachi? Was the government facing a insurgency and rebellion in Karachi? Did the government lose its writ in Karachi? The answer to all of these questions is no.

**

100%. Army men, judges and police officials were harraassed, kidnapped and beaten in Karachi. A major nationalist movement created a parallel GOVERNMENT, many areas of Karachi were completely out of Pakistani Govt control and acts of terror filled the newspaper pages. Many part of Karachi resembled Beirut, the citizenry was afraid to leave their houses, and the the administration had collapsed.

Al this over a **multi **year period. The TSNM situation did not even last a year.

**
If one is given the description of the situations in Swat and Karachi in 90s without telling the exact location, which situation would one choose for political kid glove treatment and which situation would one choose for iron hand killings and arrests?**

Descriptions can be biased and distorted to suit ones agenda. The reality is seen on the ground. A multi-year, savage, and cycle of violence can **never **compared to a relatively minor incident were a **ONE **issue (implementation of Sharia) party took control of areas where they already enjoyed support, however quickly returned the administration to Pakistan, as soon as their **one **demand was met.

The violence in Karachi during the same period is much worse

  1. Compare the population of Karachi to affected areas of NWFP.
  2. The number of murders and killings. I am happy to give some references for the thousands dead.
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Re: Beware Pashtunistan

Well written!

I think people forget the AAJ TV footage of MQM gangsters giving out weapons like sweet on May 12. That was when the MQM was at its peak of civility.

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And your point?

the happy people thread
the happy people thread
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Re: Beware Pashtunistan

Thank You.

Like I have stated all along, the TSNM situation was an isolated incident with minimal violence compared to the bloody confrontations in other parts of the country. I am not celebrating any of these sad situations because irrespective of city/province, innocent blood was shed.

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Yes, pashtuns from now should all become suspect anywhere in the world, even more so than other muslims. The usual excuse used to be that it was arabs and isi who turned peaceful pushtuns into terrorists, but it seems as history has shown us violence is part of their culture and upbringing.

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ok :)

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The carnage of Karachi cannot be compared with the TNSM terrorsim in the mid 90s in Swat. Sal1eem "saheb" in one of his post said that "10s of thousands of innocent Mohajers" were killed by BB on the basis of ethnicity, but he didn't mention how many murders were committed by the innocent militant wing of MQM.