Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
N E thing wrong with it,…or you don’t like it,…
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
we need a history forum.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
Of Course we do,…
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
What type of freedom it could be if there were no Gandhi movements in India? Gandhi was the only leader who had followings all over India.
How many democratic States you can count in Asia under one constitution
with no high jacking of power in last 50 years? I think this is also an impact of Gandhi on Indian thought.
India after Gandhi and Pakistan after Jinnah…is there any comparisan?
Do you know that Gandhi had a plan to start a peace March dt 15th Feb 1948 from Delhi to Lahore with lacs of Hindus mostly refugees to resettle them in Pakistan and on the way back with refugee Muslims to resettle them in India.
That way he had a plan to correct the historical mistake. If succeeded the artificially created border might have melted immediately.
I think Goudsey hurried and did not let us see something unimaginable.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
Hei Tariq.. dont jump into conclusion about Kasturba Gandhi..
The link the masterofall gave is totally biased.. i think it was a jew who had some grudge about Gandhi..
I couldnt corrborate his statement anywhere else. She died in house arrest with Gandhiju in aga khan palace. Her death was due to pneuomonia.
And any way.. he wasnt a really good father.. his sons never liked him so much. because he was impartial.. he was too much occupaid with his own thoughts.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
Vineshvk,
I never jump to conclusion,..until I finish my homework,..I am working on it,…Anything or any topic related to Gandhi,..I am reading and checking…
Therefore, lets see,… I never even bothered in the past to read about Jinnah,..or Gandhi,..or Nehru,… But now its about time,…
If we don’t discuss it,..we don’t know it,…now this was a good travel back in time…and find out the root causes..which is more important for new generation to know on both sides of the border.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
true
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
And I think a little reading of V.S. Naipaul would go a long way:
Hinduism, Naipaul writes, “has given men no idea of a contract with other men,
no idea of the state. It has enslaved one quarter of the population [the
Untouchables] and always has left the whole fragmented and vulnerable. Its
philosophy of withdrawal has diminished men intellectually and not equipped them
to respond to challenge; it has stifled growth. So that again and again in India
history has repeated itself: vulnerability, defeat, withdrawal.” Indians,
Naipaul says, have no historical notion of the past. “Through centuries of
conquest the civilization declined into an apparatus for survival, turning away
from the mind … and creativity … stripping itself down, like all decaying
civilizations, to its magical practices and imprisoning social forms.” He adds
later, “No government can survive on Gandhian fantasy; and the spirituality, the
solace of a conquered people, which Gandhi turned into a form of national
assertion, has soured more obviously into the nihilism that it always was.”
Naipaul condemns India again and again for its “intellectual parasitism,” its
“intellectual vacuum,” its “emptiness,” the “blankness of its decayed
civilization.” "Indian poverty is more dehumanizing than any machine; and, more
than in any machine civilization, men in India are units, locked up in the
straitest obedience by their idea of their dharma…
The plain fact is that both Indian leaders and the`Indian people ignored Gandhi’s precepts almost as thoroughly as did Hitler. They ignored him on sexual abstinence. They ignored his modifications of the casteystem. They ignored him on the evils of modern industry, the radio, the telephone. They ignored him on education. They ignored his appeals for national
union, the former British Raj splitting into a Muslim Pakistan and a Hindu
India. No one sought a return to the Arcadian Indian village of antiquity. They
ignored him, above all, in ahimsa, nonviolence. There was always a small number
of exalted satyagrahi who, martyrs, would march into the constables’ truncheons,
but one of the things that alarmed the British–as Tagore indicated–was the
explosions of violence that accompanied all this alleged nonviolence. Naipaul
writes that with independence India discovered again that it was “cruel and
horribly violent.” Jaya Prakash Narayan, the late opposition leader, once
admitted, "We often behave like animals… We are more likely than not to
become aggressive, wild, violent. We kill and burn and loot…
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
Tariq it's in poor taste..firstly it's nothing to do with Pakistan..it's just a flame war over Gandhi and Jinnah..while unfortunately some (NOT all) Indians make an issue of trashing everything related to Pakistan ..i don't think we achieve anything by this thread bu returning in the same coin..at least in heated debates on the role of the Military and Kashmir..those have some level of informative content...in this case it's just in poor taste by all sides.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
Well, proponents and opponents are finding out what they didn’t know before,..including myself…therefore,
I think it was worth discussing it…when we discuss politician,..whether,..Jinnah or Gandhi,..some un-pleasant things come out too,…lets see what’s next..
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
Yes, Gandhi will be remembered only for ‘non-violence’ and not for his political utopia.
I have seen some authentic documentary footage of Gandhi’ salt movement. What astonished me that volunteers approach the police, are beaten with sticks, they fell, get up and walk again towards the police…
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
those volunteers deserve to get beaten if they keep going back to the police.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
Leadership is the most precious quality for a people. Gandhi brought that to Indians at the right time which is why the independence became a reality. The strategies and principles he used are many and too well documented to be doubted - just pick up a book from your favorite book store, if you want facts about Gandhi.
What is therefore worth discussing is the psychology and root cause of the malcontent that seek to discredit Gandhi and his accomplishments. And it is not a new discussion - the accusers are new (atleast by their GS nick) but the accusations are always the same.
The rootcause therefore is not anything new either - most pakistanis don't appreciate Gandhi because they like the convenience of a us vs them. Jinnah vs Gandhi separation. If they don't hoist Jinnah up to the same level as Gandhi, they will then have acknowledge they owe their independence to an Indian and that is too much to ask of the sheep.
And some pakistanis take this to the extreme of hating Gandhi and go around accusing him of anything they can find - these are the worse malcontent because they strive to achieve parity not by elevating Jinnah but by relegating Gandhi!
Either case, it is NOT for want of facts or understanding that they won't call the Mahatma that - they simply don WANT to - because they mistakenly believe it will reduce them.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
sorry Atlantis but elevating Gandhi to a god like status like you have will not reduce our self-worth, I just choose to view Gandhi for what he was historically: a cunning and notorious politician.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
at the time other parts of world controlled by hitler,mao and stalin we indians
paid respect who preached non-violence.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
rvikz
I have no problem with people advocating non-violence, I have a problem when people don't defend themselves and actually go out trying to get beat up by the opressors.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
Along with his famous dictum that violence was preferable to cowardice, Gandhi explained that "although violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self defense, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
Exactly. Somehow MLK Jr. forgot that, but Malcolm didn’t.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,…
i think you are misinterpreting it. mlk is suppoerted by both races while
not malcom.
Re: Beware of Gandhi,...
Right but MLK stated "Brothers, if blood needs to be shed in our struggle, let it be ours." What kind of self-defence is that. And you can find plenty of white people who admire Malcolm today. :)