As what is a good person is defined by Islam itself. Its kinda like cheating.
It is a clever question which masks the question of are a Muslim or not? Since for a Muslim choosing "better human" would imply that there is a difference between a good Muslim and a good human.
If one isn't Muslim they will naturally go for the good human choice.
You guys should carefully choose your answer, as without realising it you might be admitting something you might not agree to.
Exactly what I alluded to however the opener of the thread did not come to reply to me.
is it really such a solid argument to say that being a good Muslim is always about being a good human being? one could believe the absolute best Muslim is always the absolute best human, but we dont live in absolutes do we?
to construct an example, someone who prays 5 times a day and keeps fast is a better Muslim than Mother Teresa. But if we were to judge 'good human being' in terms of positive contribution to human beings, Mother Teresa would be better. I think this is where the argument comes in.
**Imam Deen Muhammad Shraf nami shakhs Mualman hai ID card per mazhab Muslim hai ab yeh banda 5 main se aik waqat ki bhi namaz nahi perhta, Na roza rakhta hai,
Na is ka Hajj ka irada hai( Bilkul Muhammad Ali Jinah & respected Sir Alamma Muhammd Iqbal ki trha{ In donon ku ham great Muslim leadrs/ Alama ko Greatest Philosopher and Poet of East mantey hain])Ab Imam Din becharey ka kiya qasoor ke agar ham in qualities ki bina per os ko kahin Muslim nahi
OK Suppose he is a muslim now he never drink no nasha Kabhi rishwat nahi laita, Kabhi kisi per ziadti nahi kerta Illa ke ke jitna haq hu jaisa ke Quraan ne kaha :Nak ke badley nak ankh ke badley ankh kan ke kbadley kan. aur sabr kero tu yeh behter hai.
Yeah and as like mosy of us saber whain kerta hai jahan chara na hu kuch aur isey main majbori kehti hon sabr ke bajaey:hehe:
han sab se berh ker kabhi zina bil jabar aur zina Bil RAZA nahi kiya.
Any ways kion ke woh Eid tak ki namaz main nahi jata tu he is not a GOOD MUSLIM Still a MUSLIM though but the qualities that he never do some NAWAHI. So namaz, roza , Haj is ki ersonal choices hain Allah ke han hisab kitab hu tu ziada behter hai magar as Rishwat laina daina, Zina kerna dosron ko Nahaq tang kerna on per zulm ya ziadti kerna aisey afaal hain jahan dosrey log ya muashra mulawis hota hai. Woh yeh sab nahi kerta tu he is a good human and I believe it’s better to be a good human then involving religion just because of TAASUB:)
**
is it really such a solid argument to say that being a good Muslim is always about being a good human being? one could believe the absolute best Muslim is always the absolute best human, but we dont live in absolutes do we?
to construct an example, someone who prays 5 times a day and keeps fast is a better Muslim than Mother Teresa. But if we were to judge 'good human being' in terms of positive contribution to human beings, Mother Teresa would be better. I think this is where the argument comes in.
Aho she was/is but as a Good Muslim Human you have to say kash woh Islam qabool ker laiti tu bakhshi jati aur behtreen Human kehlany ke laike hu sakti.:( Halan ke Islam qabool ker ke sab se pehli zad os per yeh perti ke ghar ghus jao don't come out yeh merdon ke kerny ke kam hain unhin kerny do, Kisii Edhi jaisey se biah ker lo:P
aap har bat ko pata nahi kis direction pe lejati hn… aur uppar se aapki writing b ajee color me h
a GOOD MUSLIM is not just a label, it’s a way of life. so if a muslim is not striving for that way of life then obviously he’s not a good muslim NOR a good human..
Aho she was/is but as a Good Muslim Human you have to say kash woh Islam qabool ker laiti tu bakhshi jati aur behtreen Human kehlany ke laike hu sakti.:( Halan ke Islam qabool ker ke sab se pehli zad os per yeh perti ke ghar ghus jao don't come out yeh merdon ke kerny ke kam hain unhin kerny do, Kisii Edhi jaisey se biah ker lo:P
:)
well it sets up the question though doesnt it. Is it more important to be a 'good' (not perfect) Muslim or a 'good' (not perfect) human being? asking that question isnt necessarily problematic.
religiously speaking its really about the relative importance of huqooq ulllah vs huqooq ulibad.
soon I will uload those pages from tableghees qisaey suhaba where they are saying ke Suhaba Hazrat Muhammad Sali Alaha Wa alihey waslam k apeeshab peety they" Aur on Sunnah ke waqyat ko flan ne flan se zikar kiya flan ne flan se ker ke sahih sabit kiya giya hai Aik pakeeza deen laney wala aur os ke suhaba kiya yeh herkat ker sakty they??? Nahi magar yeh giroh ju Islam ke theekedar baney aur shreef logon ko kaha ke chup bolo mat jahan Huzur ka nam ajey inhon ne apney gandey kam jari rakhy Quran ke nuskhsey nehr samjh ker gandey naley main phankney per in ke dill trap uthy yeh khiyal nahi aya ke jis mu se khuda ka nam laity hain bivion ke shoher os main main ana **** lany ko kehty hain kiya yeh jaiz hai??? No No one wants to talk about it one of my falstini friend said yeh tu Charom IMAM (*****) muatafiq hain ke shohar kehy tu osey khush kerny ko bivi ker sakti hai Lannat hai jis mu se Quran perha jaey os ki izat ke liey koi ehtamam nahi magar ju Quran kitabi shakal main nazil nahi howa tha shaid HAzrat Usman ke daur main Kitabi shakal di gai bas Isaion aur yahodion ki naqal main os ki respect ke barey code ban rahy hain. Yahan zara sa socho ky jis Nabi ne khud bewa aur tlaq yafta orton se shadian kin woh Muslim Youngesters ko yeh naseehat kery ga ke. Shakal Allah ne banai hy magar why tum shadi kero tu beauty pageant se :aq: Yeh Abu Haneefa ke dimagh ka khalal hai ju os ne aney wali Muslim naslon ke dimagh main boyia. Aj aik isai bewa se ya divorced aurat se shadi kerny main hickichahat mehsoos nahi kerta magar Musalmanon main se koi jawan lerka yeh himat nahi rakhta. Han bas Bhabi bewa hu jaey tu Jwan dewrani ko majboor ker diya jata hai ke sokan bedasht kery. Kiya Islami khandai nizam hai:smack:
**And CP ye related hai how you can say a Good Muslim is a Good Human Being.
Main ny hamysha yehi suna ke sab shaklin Allah ne banai hain kisi ka dil mat dukhao magar Muslims bilkhusoos tablighon main yeh keh ker aik rat ki dulhan ko talaq dena aam hai ke is ka seena bhari nahi. Kabhi ksi ne is per bat nahi ki KIon bari shrmon waley banty hain besharmi ke kam ker ke aur unhin SUnat ka perda dhak ker.Even Sunnat ya khtna ka hukam kahin Quran main nahi Ghareeb No Muslimon ko kehty hain Sirfa Mulla ke pass se nahi naai ke pas se bhi hu ker anan tha:hehe: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/jokes-rated-g/414868-aik-isaai-lary-ko-musalman-larki-se.html#post7284290
Sab se berh ker Atleast America main Ghulami ke khilaf qwaneen baney aur unhon ne kalon ko apney braber ka drja de hi diya. Magar Muslims kehty hain ke Ghulami jaiz hy Islam main ijazat hai tu ham tu Kaneezain bhi rakhin gey aur Ghulam bhi banain gey is qanoon ko tu badla hi nahi ja sakta. Jahan Insaniyat ki bhalai ka nam aey wahan koi tabdeeli nahi hu sakti mazhab ke naam per. Magar faid authana hu tu Muslim Maomin sab se agey.
*Arab Mumalik ki charity apni jaga magar Ghlami system abhi tak wahan hai jisey in Abu Haneefa aur tumharey char imaon ne tahufz diya *
It's hard to understand your urdu so forgive me if I misunderstood... did you just slander all 4 Imams in one post?
... you have no right to slander the Imams and accuse them of such disgusting things. Do not take your personal problems and use them against others. Do not take specific examples and blame EVERYONE. I do not know which cult you're following (maybe feminism?) but I know you're smarter than the retards who badmouth scholars and groups who are spreading Islam.
Aap thora deep soch'y na... can't just put a blanket over things and generalize.
There's a saying some people are Muslim by name. Aap es ko to maanti hai na? So why not accept that there are Muslims and then there are better Muslims?
Hadith me aya:
** Fornication will not appear among any people without their being punished by famine, and bribery will not appear among any people without their being punished by terror.[ahmed]
**.
Explain to me why the West is so hatta-katta, fully fed - suffering only from the Terror of muslims?
It's hard to understand your urdu so forgive me if I misunderstood... did you just slander all 4 Imams in one post?
... you have no right to slander the Imams and accuse them of such disgusting things. Do not take your personal problems and use them against others. Do not take specific examples and blame EVERYONE. I do not know which cult you're following (maybe feminism?) but I know you're smarter than the retards who badmouth scholars and groups who are spreading Islam.
is it really such a solid argument to say that being a good Muslim is always about being a good human being? one could believe the absolute best Muslim is always the absolute best human, but we dont live in absolutes do we?
to construct an example, someone who prays 5 times a day and keeps fast is a better Muslim than Mother Teresa. But if we were to judge 'good human being' in terms of positive contribution to human beings, Mother Teresa would be better. I think this is where the argument comes in.
Good example.
IMO one has to be a good person (and in the right mind set) to accept Islam fully
is it really such a solid argument to say that being a good Muslim is always about being a good human being? one could believe the absolute best Muslim is always the absolute best human, but we dont live in absolutes do we?
to construct an example, someone who prays 5 times a day and keeps fast is a better Muslim than Mother Teresa. But if we were to judge 'good human being' in terms of positive contribution to human beings, Mother Teresa would be better. I think this is where the argument comes in.
Though you have shot a hole through the argument it doesn't get full credit. The opener of the thread asked to make a choice between the two. So it becomes a dogmatic question as well not just behavioral. For a muslim salvation is not just linked to humane behavior but also certain belief and doctrines.
The quest to become a better muslim includes ones attempt to strive for being a better human being inherently. Whereas one striving to be a good human being does not necessarily attach to a doctrine or belief.
Being a better human being is devoid of belief but rather based on practice of humane behavior for most part. A person of absolute malicious intent can also prove to be a good human being by simply engaging in humane activities.
Though you have shot a hole through the argument it doesn't get full credit. The opener of the thread asked to make a choice between the two. So it becomes a dogmatic question as well not just behavioral. For a muslim salvation is not just linked to humane behavior but also certain belief and doctrines.
The quest to become a better muslim includes ones attempt to strive for being a better human being inherently. Whereas one striving to be a good human being does not necessarily attach to a doctrine or belief.
Being a better human being is devoid of belief but rather based on practice of humane behavior for most part. A person of absolute malicious intent can also prove to be a good human being by simply engaging in humane activities.
Again the questioners intentions are unknown.
why be so focused on the intentions of the OP, why not just share your thoughts on the comparison and not investigate an agenda?
i dont really think its necessarily a dogmatic question, nor do you have to make it a question of becoming an unbeliever. like I said if you wished to remain within the framework of Islam you could easily frame it as in your quest to be a good Muslim do huqooq ullah have priority or huqooq ul ibad? or excelling in devotion to religion more important than devotion to humanity? what is worse, if you were remiss in huqooq ullah or huqooq ulibad?
we cannot really say that all of those that claim to be or are religious/Muslim/Islamic figures have always been great humanitarians, and there are many Muslim humanitarians who are not really religious/Islamic figures/scholars etc. so there is clearly in practice a lifestyle choice. What do you respect more between the two, great religious/scholarly achievements/works that have their affect principally in the afterlife or towards Allah or great humanitarian ones?
O cricket Play athis is not about my own problems this is about whole Musilm worlds problems aisi taisi tumhary charon IMAMON ki. Isna they farishty ya Nabi nahi woh**. kahan se aey they yeh??? Kaun they??? Kaneezon ki auladin jinhon ne khud ju bhi kaha jab kisi ne mery jasiey ne bat kerni chahi yeh keh ker chup kera diya ke deen main behas ki gunjaish nahi.
Yeh batao Muslman kion apney han crime reports ko sahih tareeqy se record nahi kerty. Kitny bachey tumhary muhalon main molest hoty han kabhi socha ya ghr kiya???
Islam unhin nahi rok pata jab woh bura kerny per attey hain acha shytan hai ju Allah bhula diat ahai aur phir khadnan perda poshi main lag jaty hain.
Waisy yeh IMAM ki ISTLAH AAI kahan se Huzorr ke zamany main tu even Huzur ke liey yeh lafz istymal nahi howa tha Imam Hussain tu in Char Shafain Hanbli aur flan dhikan imaon main nahi na woh Imam tu alag hain.
Hamari Dadi ki aik nokrani thi Muslim jis ke nana ne osey pregnant ker diya tha Os bachi ki 12 sal ki umar main shadi ker di gai koi report nahi against nana and tab ab woh 15 bachey chor ker meri osi ke aik baity ney apni SAGI BEHAN KA RAPE kiya kehty they nasey/nashey main tha:smack: Achi Mulsim abadi ki berhotri hai. Yeh Mulla is liey aulad ziad se ziada paid akerwney ke shaiq hain ke bas BAD KIRDAR AUR BAD HAL MUSLAMAN PAIDA HOTY RAHIN jus bas in Char Imamon ke ISlam per yaqen rakhin baqi kisi cheez per nahi koi qaid aqanoon nahi.
Wah Allah yeh bhi khub rahi jab Islam aiya tu Arab ka sab se ba izat khandan chunna ar phir Islam ki bag door Abu Haneefa jaison ke hath main de di:smack:
Keep in mind ke Kaneez ju os zamaney main kaneez kahi jati thi aj kal Lahore ki heera mandi main qiam hai in ki baqiyat ka aur kisi IMAM ki AHADEES utha ker daikh lo aik TAWIF ka drja mukhtalif qisam ki hadessain bana ker aik naik aurat se bara batiya hu ga.
twaif/Kaneez bakhshi jaey gi sab khyl kha ker magar aik naik aurat jahanm main jaey gi. Ab
os Biyan er aey Safr-e-mmairaj huzur jahan jahan giey cheaters main sirf aurtaiin nazar aain.
Masjid main Mulla ne yeh dras diya tu meri aik dost ne pocha mulla je(in Santa Clara) Kiys ju merd on ke sath shareek they woh janat ke ala darjon per faiz they sirf aurtin hi jahan ke gahtiya darjon main saza bhugat rahi thin??? Mulla ji ka jwab th ajab hadees main yehi hai tu main apni traf se tu nahi bana sakta. Tu phir yeh sunna kion rahy hain?? Kabho socho agar aik aurat zinaa ker rahi thi tu woh merd kion bakhshsy giey?? Kisi merd ko huzur ne kion na dekha Allah ko bhi sirf aurton ko waid dilana kiya zarori tha merd jab cheat kerta hai kiya bachey ghar aur aurat mutasir nahi hoety??? hoetey hain magar tungary Imamon ne tu is bat er sochny au rkoi amal kerny per bhi pabandi laga di.
**
^Stop insulting Imam Abu Hanifah(ra). The text you posted is not written by Imam Abu Hanifah. You should've been banned for writing this crap but no one bothers to read your posts I guess.
Yahan Abu Haneefa kis lateefy per dair tak hansty rahy???
**I think you can’t read Urdu that’s why Qala Abu Haneefa means not by Abu Haneefa you think??? ****I am not insulting I am just saying that why only virgin girls for marriage??? **
**Sach sunna aur brdasht kerna Muslmanon ki adat nahi hai tu baan ker do who cares???
Is islam per ju amal kery wohi better Muslim hu sakta hai na???
other hadees is also ke aurat tandoor per bhi bythi hu aur shohar a ker bulaey tu os ki sex ki tashafi ke liey woh aurat bivi jaey.
kabhi kisi Imam neiske asratauladperkiyahingeyperbehas kion nahi ki???
Mujhy Baan kenry se BIbi aap ko kuch hasil nahi hu ga sach bol rahi hon main koi jhoot nahi
sach sunny aur sahny k ahosla paida kero agar samjhty hu ham sachey hain.
**
**It’s not about zati thing batao in abu haneef aki quote ki hoi ahades main kiya tumhin Good Muslims wali cheez nar atti hai??
Aur mera kisi culte wolt se koi taluq nahi main aik nahi hazaron man Behnin aur bytiyan bol rahi hain mery andarjinhin aj tak tum logon ne bolney nahi diya **
soon I will uload those pages from tableghees qisaey suhaba where they are saying ke Suhaba Hazrat Muhammad Sali Alaha Wa alihey waslam k apeeshab peety they" Aur on Sunnah ke waqyat ko flan ne flan se zikar kiya flan ne flan se ker ke sahih sabit kiya giya hai Aik pakeeza deen laney wala aur os ke suhaba kiya yeh herkat ker sakty they??? Nahi magar yeh giroh ju Islam ke theekedar baney aur shreef logon ko kaha ke chup bolo mat jahan Huzur ka nam ajey inhon ne apney gandey kam jari rakhy Quran ke nuskhsey nehr samjh ker gandey naley main phankney per in ke dill trap uthy yeh khiyal nahi aya ke jis mu se khuda ka nam laity hain bivion ke shoher os main main ana **** lany ko kehty hain kiya yeh jaiz hai??? No No one wants to talk about it one of my falstini friend said yeh tu Charom IMAM (*****) muatafiq hain ke shohar kehy tu osey khush kerny ko bivi ker sakti hai Lannat hai jis mu se Quran perha jaey os ki izat ke liey koi ehtamam nahi magar ju Quran kitabi shakal main nazil nahi howa tha shaid HAzrat Usman ke daur main Kitabi shakal di gai bas Isaion aur yahodion ki naqal main os ki respect ke barey code ban rahy hain.
..ahem mods..