Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
I don’t think,..CIA,..created this Sikh Issue,..since 1920,…
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
i have no idea about 1.5 billion US dollars and all.. if it was then it was given to punjab police because of their highly commendable job they did in ending terrorism in Punjab… Tariq.. Punjab police is from Punjab.. majority are sikhs.. and as far i got to know from Gill( he is again a sikh, and credited with ending punjab extremism) is that the police had infilterated the sikh groups and finally broke them apart.
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Vineshvk,
With $1.5 Billion US dollars,…you can buy a country,…let alone small Punjab province here,…
This is a lot of money buddy,…Just to crush,..Bhinderwala,..didn’t worth that much,…I hope you know what I am trying to say here,..that abuse is still going,…since 1984 fiasco…
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire ...
BTW,..don't take me wrong,...here,..I am in favor of ,..India treating its all minorities with same values,..as it treats,,....upper class brahmins,..or others,....:)
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire ...
i have no idea..about the money u mentioned.. yes many were rewarded.. but may be it is in Rs than in dollars.
The oppression is not going on at present.. punjab is very peacefull since 1993 onwards. Besides the Congress party had apologised for the 1984 sikh riot in Delhi after the death of Indira Gandhi. And we now have a sikh prime minister again from the Congress party.
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
ha.. upper class brahmins.. he he.. who cares about them anyway.. i am no Brahmin. There is still long way to go for India to be completely free from all the s**t caste system. But eventually we will reach one day.
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
That amount was an equvalent to Dollars amount,..here,..which US used in its reports,…
If that much money,..India spend,..on RAW,..then they can out smart CIA,..or MOSSAD anytime,..But still there are bitter feelings among,…Muslims,..Sikhs,..and Chrsitians,..alike…As long as those doubts or feelings are not corrected,…you gonna be seeing more incidents like 1984 fiasco in the future,…
too.
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Good luck
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
may be but.. look tariq.. there are always troubles.. the people start to feel disallusioned when they loose the sight of their future. Then any volatile issue(religion) can cause a flare up. If India is progressing then there will not be any such flare up.. they will basicaly think about their tomorrow than killing their neighbour.
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
In real textbook world may be,…but unfortunately,…Goes both ways,…
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Thanks, Tariq, for opening my eyes…a lot we come to know about our country from you.
You have to tell us who is a Sikh?
And Christians, Hindus, Buddhists Muslims approved our constitution? Go to the link owners of …and ask for detailed reply.
Thanks again…Now I will be very conscious of Sikhs living in my neighborhood. I will dislike our present Army-Chief, as well as all will dislike all those Sikh officers and soldiers who really handshaked with your soldiers at the front many times.
And I promiss not to hire a Sikh driver’ taxi.
Just have a look at the language used in links you have provided, worthy discussion.
Thanks again for information. India has appr 2.3 million troops….as per your media report 700000 in Kashmir, 500000 in Punjab, sorry Khalistan,…and 800000 in North-east……230000 left for fighting, ….what the hell you are doing…make some alleys and attack India from South.
Again thanks for informing that www.dalistan.org is mouthpiece of US library of Congress.
41000 cash bounties…in USD or Rs? In 1993 conversion rate was 30Rs/ 1 USD; hence the Indian state paid appr 1400 USD….it looks a little funny.
Never knew, thanks for informing, really a great amount…and how the Governer of Punjab used it for fighting in Kashmir?
News paper Hitavada must include North-East, Tamils problem in the statement..will be more entertating.
(By the way, what is this Hitavada?)
A water dispute is on between Haryana and Punjab in court….Please leak out this clue to the Punjab Govt, it has no knowledge your findings.
I repeat my question again…who is a Sikh? Does Golden temple belong only to Sikhs?
Thanks again for enlightening us. But I have a problem. If any one from USA or from Britain will make such claims, I will honor it, but the claim comes from a country which does not know where actually its constitution being spitted at, at a Madrisa or at some military headquarters…no comments!
I am very sorry, that cannot examine all your claims…lack of time and interest….please do us a favor…pass on all your findings with dalit.org links information to Saddam…as he can use it in his defense for not being least cruel…in comparison to the most barbarous state India.
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire ...
Vineshvk
Do you really find any logic in tariq' posts?
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Ajjan,
Well, my all that response,..was directed at other GS members too,…therefore,..had to post all that,..for everyone to read and find out too,..you and me are just discussing it,..but there are 100’s of people visiting this site,…too just to read,..don’t forget that,…therefore,..keep your sarcastic remarks to yourself,..and discuss those points which you clearly avoided to discuss from **US Congress,…or US state Dept,…**you didn’t quote anything from there and answered that,…what happened,..you don’t wanna enlighten us with truth about those points,..If you want I can post it here,…again in proper perspective..
You chosen to ignore ,…two US congressmen who are considered as pro-indian,..who in their speeches blamed India for not having NO RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN INDIA …If can’t discuss the message then start attacking the site or,..source,..right,..Way to go buddy,…
BTW,…Pakistan never boasted about being a democratic or secular country,..Also,..In pakistan,..Hindus,..christains and other minorities are more safer than india,..find out why,…
BTW,..here are some points for you to check again,…as follows:
**Here are some relevant facts about India and Indian-occupied Khalistan: **
- Indian newspapers recently reported that 25,000 Sikhs were either cremated as `unclaimed bodies.’ or thrown in canals and rivers.
- The White Paper on State Terrorism in Punjab cites S.S. Ray, Indian Ambassador to the U.S., as the
butcher of Bengal' and thebutcher of Punjab.’ - Over 41,000 cash bounties were paid to police officers for killing Sikhs, according to the US State Dept.
- Over 120,000 Sikhs killed since 1984.
- Over 150,000 Christians killed since 1947. Over 43,000 Kashmiri Muslims killed since 1988.
- Tens of thousands more languish in Indian prisons without charge or trial.
- Amnesty International reports hundreds of Sikhs have disappeared.
- Asia Watch reports `virtually everyone detained in Punjab is tortured.’
- Police operate over 200 torture centers (police stations) in Punjab, Khalistan.
- Police routinely pick up Sikh youths and demand ransom of tens of thousands of rupees for their safe release. Otherwise, the youths are tortured and killed.
- Sikhs who die of torture are listed as being killed in an `encounter’ with the police.
- Despite the recent repeal of TADA, the other `Black Laws’, giving the regime sweeping powers to detain anyone for any reason and kill Sikhs without fear of persecution, remain on the books.
- India has not allowed Amnesty International to conduct an independent human-rights investigation in Punjab, Khalistan, since 1978.
- India recently attacked an ancient mosque in Kashmir which houses the mausoleum of the venerated Sheik Nooruddin Wali. In December 1992, Hindus destroyed the Babri mosque in Ayodhya.
- In June 1984, India attacked the Golden Temple in Amritsar, the holiest shrine of the Sikh Nation.
- The Chicago Tribune reports that a nun was stabbed 36 times by right-wing Hindu fundamentalists. By these actions, India displays its religious intolerance.
- The Indian newspaper Hitavada reported in November that the late Governor of Punjab, Surendra Nath, was paid $1.5 billion by the Indian regime to foment terrorism in Punjab, Khalistan, and in Kashmir.
- The State Department says that the human-rights situation is getting worse.
- No Sikh has ever signed the Indian constitution.
- The Sikh leadership declared Khalistan independent on October 7, 1987.
- The movement to liberate Khalistan is peaceful, democratic, and nonviolent.
- Former Member of Parliament Simranjit Singh Mann has been held in a windowless cell for four months for the `crime’ of speaking out for Khalistan.
- The Supreme Court of India ruled that asking for Khalistan is not a crime.
- According to India Abroad, 96 percent of the Sikhs in Punjab, Khalistan did not vote in India’s February 1992 elections there.
- India has 500,000 troops in Punjab, occupied Khalistan, alone–more than Britain had in the entire subcontinent during its rule.
- Khalistan, Kashmir, and Nagaland continue to be denied their right to self-determination.
- India has 18 official languages. It is a polyglot like the former Soviet Union. It is not one country.
- May 1995–Indian troops in Kashmir burn to the ground the centuries-old walnut wood mosque in Charar-e-Sharies, along with hundreds of homes around it.
- December 1992–Hindu mobs destroy the historic Babri Mosque in Ayodhya as Indian troops stand by and watch.
- December 1992–Gurdev Singh Kaonke, one of the most revered leaders of the Sikh religion, is arrested, tortured and killed in police custody.
- June 1984–Indian soldiers launch an all out attack on the Golden Temple in Amritsar, the holiest shrine of the Sikh religion. 38 other temples throughout Punjab are attacked, killing thousands of Sikhs.
- Asia Watch: `Virtually everyone detained in Punjab is tortured.’
- Amnesty International: `Torture (in Punjab and Kashmir) and illtreatment is widespread and in some cases systematic, resulting in scores of deaths in police custody.’
- State Department Human Rights Report (1994): Over 41,000 cash bounties were paid to police in Punjab for extrajudicial killings of Sikhs between 1991 and 1993.
[US Congressioanl Record, Page: E1141 ]
- Extrajudicial murders of Sikh youth are a common occurrence. Between 1986 and 1994, 6,017 unidentified Sikh victims of Indian police were cremated in the District of Amritsar alone. There are 13 districts in Punjab. It has been estimated that security forces have had over 25,000 unidentified Sikhs cremated or dumped in rivers during this period.
- In January 1995, the water level of the Sirhind Canal was lowered for repair work. One dozen bodies of young Sikh torture victims were found at the bottom of just one shore section of the canal with the hands and feet bound. There are hundreds of miles of the canals through the province.
- In January 1993, Indian paramilitary forces in Kashmir burnt to death at least 65 Kashmiri civilians in the town of Sopore. Soldiers deliberately set fire to five separate areas of the town. They also dragged shopkeepers out of their shops and shot them in the streets. The torching of entire Kashmiri villages by Indian forces is a common tactic.
- In 1994, Sikh activist Kanwar Singh Dhami was imprisoned along with his pregnant wife and son. He and his wife were tortured in front of each other. When the police were unable to extract an untrue confession from Mr. Dhami, they hung his wife up by her heels (she was six months pregnant) forcing her to have a miscarriage.
- In Amritsar district in 1993, Indian police brought a Sikh youth they had tortured and thought was dead to the hospital for an autopsy. After the police left, the doctors discovered that the young man was miraculously still alive and revived him. The police returned several hours later after hearing that the man was alive. They took him out of the hospital, killed him again, and brought him back to the same hospital for his autopsy.
_----------------------------------------
I don’t think US state dept has any reason to lie about 1.5 Billion dollars as mentioned above,…whether dollar was one to Rs. 30 or RS 10,…If that would have been lie,..then India could have challenged it,…on any world forum,..what happened,…why didn’t they challenge,..???
US state Dept,..never blame any country without any solid proof,…I hope you know that,…If not then find that out too,…
How many Facts you gonna deny,…where you have millions,..relax,..and have patience,…we even haven’t started the hardcore issues yet,…this is just preview,…
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Check this out,…from US congressional records,…
http://www.khalistan.com/CongRecords/CR061804_Towns_20AnvGTAttack.htm
SIKHS REMEMBER 20TH ANNIVERSARY OF ATTACK ON GOLDEN TEMPLE
FREEDOM FOR KHALISTAN WILL END THE BRUTALITY
(Extensions of Remarks - June 18, 2004)
SPEECH OF
HON. EDOLPHUS TOWNS
OF NEW YORK
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
THURSDAY, JUNE 17, 2004
Just last year’s record,..care to read it,…or just you gonna play down this too,..Coz,..you know,..India screwed up and created unforeseen problems,…which are coming back to haunt them,…here is a highlight for you,…
Unfortunately, the Sikhs are not the only victims of India’s repressive tyranny. More than 300,000 Christians in Nagaland have been killed by the Indian government since 1947. They have seen priests murdered, nuns raped, schools, prayer halls, and festivals attacked–the government even shut down one festival with gunfire–missionaries murdered, beaten, and thrown out of the country, and so many other atrocities carried out against them. Almost 88,000 Kashmiri Muslims have fallen victim to India’s brutal tyranny since 1988. Another 2,000 to 5,000 Muslims were massacred in Gujarat with the connivance of the government. And these are just a few of the atrocities committed against minorities by the Indian forces.
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..---------------------------------
If want to be cheered up more,..then here we have more,…
http://www.uscg.mil/Legal/Homeland_legislation/PDF/091102%20Maloney%20Speech.pdf
**[FROM THE HITAVADA, NOVEMBER 6, 1994] ****(FROM SUKHBIR OSAN) **Was the late Punjab Governor, Mr. Surendra Nath, who died in a plane crash with nine family members, behind the thousands of killings in Punjab and Kashmir through a third agency?
According to highly placed sources, the Union Government had made available a huge amount of Rs. 4500 crore to Mr. Surendra Nath, IPS, who held many a prestigious post from time to time, to prop up' terrorism in Punjab and Kashmir in a bid to defame the Punjab and Kashmir militants. Both the Union Home Minister Mr. S.B. Chavan and the Internal Security Minister Mr. Rajesh Pilot were well aware of the fact that Mr. Nath had very successfully infiltrated officials’ of the Punjab and Kashmir Government into various terrorist groups.
What is further intriguing the minds of the people of Punjab is the ignorance being feigned by the Government of India, especially its Home Ministry regarding the seizures' made from Punjab Raj Bhawan’ after the demise of Mr. Nath. The total collection' amounts to Rupees 800 crore inclusive of cash, jewelry, and other immovable property. In fact, according to sources, this body’ seems to be a part of the amount of Rs. 4500 crore which was placed at the disposal of Mr. Surendra Nath to root out terrorism.
Mr. Surendra Nath played an all important role to give strength to the hitherto lesser known C.I.S.F. (Central Industrial Security Force) and it is being alleged that some of `its’ men were used to kill innocent persons including the family members of the Punjab police personnel as well as teachers, doctors, engineers, media men and political personalities.
A suspended' police official Bakhsish Singh remained very close to Mr. Surendra Nath. Mr. Singh was the security in charge of the all time high-profile top Akali leader and the former Punjab Finance Minister Mr. Balwant Singh who was gunned down by terrorists’ in broad day light. Mr. Bakhsish Singh was immediately suspended after the ghastly murder of Mr. Balwant Singh. But with the advent of Mr. Surendra Nath as the Governor of Punjab- Mr. Bakhsish Singh, a Nath confidant, re-approved on the scene and enjoyed a very easy access to Mr. Surendra Nath even at odd' hours and was well informed’ of all the `secret missions’ of the late Governor.
Though the Union Home Minister, Mr S.B. Chavan has denied that currency has been seized from the Punjab Raj Bhavan, he has further complicated the issue by saying that only the Prime Minister Mr. Rao could say anything about the `seizures’ made from the Raj Bhavan.
Though the veteran CPI leader and the former Punjab Minister, Mr. Satyapal Dang as well as the Khalistan protagonist Mr. Simranjit Singh Mann have asked for a CBI probe into the Punjab Raj Bhavan seizures, the Government of India is maintaining a studied silence. Meanwhile, a Human Rights protagonist and an advocate of the Punjab and Haryana High Court has filed a written petition in the Supreme Court for a CBI probe into the matter.
According to sources, the list of seizures prepared by intelligence agencies is very long and is consisting of Rupees 110 crore in cash, jewelry worth Rupees 40 crore, immovable property worth Rupees 650 crore, various political bangalows and farm houses and above all his attempt to grab land near Kullu at a throw away price of Rupees 8 crore.
The Prime Minister, these sources maintain, is annoyed with both Mr. Chawan and Mr. Pilot since he feels that their infighting is behind all this leakage' to media persons and may have a damaging influence’ on the Congress I performance in the ensuring elections being held in the Southern States.
[N.B. 1 crore equal to 10 millions]
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire ...
tariq sikh is pm and chief of army. do you want to visit and pray with me in gurdwara?
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Rvikz,
I thought we were done discussing this issue,..but Ajjan,..needs more proof,..and wants more discussion,..that’s why,..I have to give him some dosage here,..so that he can sit and read it,..I don’t enjoy it,..but if he wants it,..then have no choice,..
BTW,..happy for PM and Army chief,…being sikhs,..
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
No Tariq, you have already convinced me of your wisdom and I am handicapped against your solid proofs from www.dalit.org , and www.khalistan.org, so I have no other option but to give up.
This intelligent point struck me in your previous post. By 1950 in (West) Pakistan appr 8% minorities of total population were existing…today the ratio is less than 3%…so how did you succeede in eliminating your minorities without harassing them?
(Ps, if you are sure that visitors of GS gain something from your highly praised posts…I feel pity for them!)
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Those minorities,..migrated to India,..so they can suffer their,…but still even as per your number,…3% minorities in pakistan are being given full freedom and religious rights,…than India,..We may have Shia-Sunni problem,..but other than that,…we don’t have any other problem with minorities,…,…
Though Pakistan is an Ideological Country in the world,..just like Isreal…and still we treat our minorities,..good…as compare to India which is secular,..democratic country,..if so you believe it..
BTW,…in Pakistan,..we have,…
1.60 % Hindus
1.58 % Christains
0.22 % Ahmadis
0.32 % All other small scheduled castes,…
2.03 Million Christains
2.12 Million Hindus
0.29 Million Ahmadis
0.40 Million Other small Schedule Castes,…
You can see,…how much Minorities we have,..among 150 Million Pakistanis,…IF you stop watching Zee TV or ,..dur-darshan TV,..then may be you will find out the truth…
So again,..you are attacking the source,..than the message here,…its ok,..I understand buddy,…GS members ,..can find out for themselves now,…
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire ...
Tariq u r making a mockery of urself
I ve invited u to come to India and see for ureself how the sikhs and mulsims and christians live. If the Hindus had decided that the country need not be anymore secular.. then there will be genocide.. not one member of the minority community will survive such an onslought. Those who know India and visited india knows what it is. People who live in foreign countries. and bread only by blogs fail to realize what India is. Can u give us an estimate how many people are willing to die for Khalistan now...:D . The thing is India will prevail on them because India cannot be held to ransome by certain individual.. who have nothing but religion on their head. This holds true for kashmir also..
U know if i list out the previlages the minorities enjoy in India then u will know why there is hindu extremism in India.
U r just trying to instigate indians and thats it. U very well know that its not the truth or the full truth..
U say about pakistan being an islamist country.. do u think that is better. Well then try inslamising America. ur own country then..:) .
why there are so much peace in Pakistan .. and ur boasting of communal harmony.. its because the minorities are afraid to voice their anger against the draconian law.. If u have a majority which can take up arms with the slightest provocation and butcher the helpless minority.. then would any guys with slightest of intelligence will air their dissent publicaly or what.
A few years back Bal thackerey was facing election in Maharashtra.. he was fighting on a plank or tending to give an image that there was no communal viloence in the state in his rule.. and thats a credit to him..
U r saying same thing what Bal thackerey is saying.. no muslim would air publicaly their grievence if they know they will be cut down immediately. And that logic holds good for Pakistan also.
In India.. a muslim, a sikh or a hindu has equal probability of becoming the prime minister of India or president.. Can u imagine a member of a minority community getting to even a local party post. There is 3 or 4 christian cheif miniters.. in india.. there is one sikh chief minister(the state of Punjab). This is democracy... There are 3 or 4 tribal chief ministers too. Now tell me.. how did they come about.. somebody have to vote them to occupay the post right. or will u argue that there are just face saving formulas. .. then i will know clearly what u know about democracy then..:D .
Re: Betrayal Of Sikhs In The Hindu Empire …
Vineshvk,
We know,..how many sikhs,…Muslims and other minorities were killed,..since 1947 til today,..in India,..which is already brought up and posted before…
Care to read this,..report about Gujrat ,…which is one the 1000’s reports,…as follows:
INDIA: Genocide: Ideology and Policy Result in Gujarat Massacre
http://www.ahrchk.net/hrsolid/mainfile.php/2002vol12no05/2237/
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The Gujarat carnage was especially coloured by state complicity in the violence, in premeditation and planning behind the attacks on the lives, dignity, livelihoods, businesses and properties of a section of the population-Muslims-and a selective assault on their religious and cultural places of worship. Muslim women were targeted as objects of their community and similarly abused with an inhuman level of violence and sexual crimes. An economic and social boycott of the community was openly encouraged and continues in many parts of Gujarat to date. Agricultural land holdings of Muslims, small and large, have been taken over by dominant community and caste groups. A livelihood for Muslims has been snatched away, and there is a clear-cut and ongoing design to economically cripple the community.
The chief minister of Gujarat, Shri Narendra Modi, has been held by this tribunal to be directly responsible, along with cabinet colleagues and organisations that he leads and patronises-the BJP [Bharatiya Janata Party or Indian People’s Party], RSS [Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh], VHP [Vishva Hindu Parishad] and BD [Bajrang Dal]. For all these reasons together, there is no way that the post-Godhra carnage in Gujarat can escape being called squarely what it was-crimes against humanity and genocide.
The case for genocide against the VHP and the Bajrang Dal as well as Shri Narendra Modi and members of his cabinet is being made for the following reasons:
- There have been a number of statements and pamphlets from the VHP and the BD and its leaders in the
past which establish that they have been consistently against the Muslim community, making them the target of verbal and physical attacks and provoking people to economically and physically attack Muslims and, thereafter, subject them to an economic and social boycott. - There is sufficient evidence to show that the carnage in Gujarat, post-Feb. 27, was led by the VHP and the Bajrang Dal.
- The carnage was at six levels: physical destruction of a part of the community, economic destruction, sexual violence and rape of a large number of Muslim women , cultural and religious destruction, resistance to rehabilitation and a publicly declared desire to physically and morally destroy the Muslim community of Gujarat.
- The offences that were committed in the first flush of organised violence continue at a lower intensity under the same political dispensation even today.
The chief minister is equally liable for prosecution for genocide for the following reasons:
- refusal to take any preventive measures and protect the lives and properties of Muslims;
- connivance in and facilitation of the carnage;
- transfer of good police officers;
- no action against erring police officers or party functionaries who were named by victims;
- persistent threats to close down privately run relief camps;
- abusive comments against the affected and victimised community that qualify as hate speech;
- refusal to comply with the NHRC [National Human Rights Commission] recommendations;
- total failure in the provision of relief and rehabilitation;
- absence of punitive action against a provocative press and other organisations;
- influencing criminal investigation-the omission of the names of VHP/ RSS/ BJP functionaries from charge
sheets although their names appear in FIRs [first instance reports]; - the case for the Gujarat carnage being nothing short of genocide is clinched by the fact that Muslim journalists, Muslim police officers, Muslim bureaucrats and Muslim teachers have had to function only after concealing or changing their identities, and this continues to be a trend even now.
Considering these facts and the distinct tendency and trends that mass crimes committed against marginalised groups have taken in past years, it is a grave lapse on the part of the government of India, which has to date not enacted any law in compliance with Article 5 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide of 1948. India signed the Genocide Convention in 1948 and ratified it in 1958. Under the convention, a State that is a signatory is bound to effectively act upon and legislate upon the intents of the legislation. Thus far, India has not enacted any law in compliance with the .
convention.
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I shall be waiting for your response,…once you read it,..
BTW,…** You tell me,…is this the same India we are talking about,..or the one,..which is an imaginative..:)**
**GUJARAT GENOCIDE VICTIMS DEMAND JUSTICE - April 18, 2005 **