[QUOTE] Originally posted by mo_best: *
So you lot truly believe US bachelor level education is of a better standard then the UK? *
depends on the university. Lake walla walla community collge will not be good, versus any halfway decent school. surely you can not compare Imperial with uni of westminster?
*We we're told by my US Studies Professor (himself Cambridge and LSE educated, who taught in the US for years) that bachelor level education in the States routinely has MULTIPLE CHOICE questions on the exam paper? *
exams are just one aspect of grade, term papers, presentations, projects etc complete the evaluation.
and multiple choices are not always easy. when you have to pick the "best answer" from a list where multiple options are given and then combinations and permutations of those possible options is given, it can be challenging in a limited time. But then again in most cases multiple choice type of questions comprise a portion of the exam. you still have to calculate and solve problems to figure out which is the best answer.
*I can only go by what I'm told, and thats why I'm trying to get a fairer picture of the quality across the Atlantic-but if true that would be quite unbelievable. *
Maybe someone can send you a copy of the type of exams you deal with to give you a better picture.
*Also why isnt US High school education deemed sufficient to enter a top University in the UK-they all ask that the applicant have at least 1 yr of Uni behind them. *
Yeah dont be mean to Mo, thats a great line of thought. :D
I never claimed to be smart man, I maintain that I am distinctly average-smart ppl like you should be able to correct me, its not a big thing either way.
Besides, Does Canada have 13 years like us, cos there High School qualification is deemed sufficient to enter ANY university. As is Austrlias-and I know in some places, like melbourne, they have only 12 years.
Harvard is known more for the network of people that gain their then through emersion in theory and though processes. Ask any MIT student! :).
Harvard Business School is recognized because it is the oldest (if I remember correctly) and has a huge alumni (each year these days they have over a 1000 people graduating!). The network effect that people read about in the internet comes into play here because each of alums is interested in using the network of alums and the group as a whole rises to the top.
In terms of schools- there are some that have a strong name but I would say that is looking at the past and not the future (sort of a lagging indicator) because that is based on what the school had done in the past. if you are serious about the school you want to go to think about what the school is doing in the future for that is what really matters later on in life. So in this case Yale’s/HBS reputation is a lagging indicator and the rankings a more current but still lagging indicator.
Does the UK have a strong internship ethic built into thier undergraduate programs since they are based on just three years? That is one of the most important things in my mind as far as undergraduate schooling goes in the US, that we lack out in Pakistan.
HMCQ: All business is done at a relationship level. What you will learn in B-Scholl can be learned in staying at your job. There are no novel concepts in B-schools. Having the right network is the most important aspect aside from the stamp of a good university on your resume. what people learn in Harvard or Wharton isn't all that different than what people lean in Purdue or Walla Walla MBA. The difference is the relationships, most important and then the pedigree.
WHy is it that most of the Fortune 500 c-level folks and key decision makers come out of the top 10 schools? Is it becuase they can structure an M&A deal (because any second year analyst at an I-Bank) can do that) or becuase they have a good network and leveraing that they can get the deal done. Numbers are numbers.....relationships are what makes it work.
Ummm.. CH. Numbers and relationships aside.. u also need some of your own brains to get into a good school - any good school - to stay in it thruout a rigorously grinding degree program, and to* graduate and put that degree to good use*. Getting a degree is only have the battle. Utilizing your education successfully is key to everything. I know some really dumb top-ten school grads who just look good and nothing else, and some really smart XYZ public state university grads who don't have the resources to get ahead of the Ivy Leaguers, but they're way ahead of them in smarts anyday. It's brains that count, not just relationships.
Ana and Ch are both right. the success factors are not mutually exclusive..relationships can take you so far but if you cant deliver, thats kinda it, same goes for brains, you may be really smart but if you dont have the network, you may not be able to get to opportunities that you would have otherwise.
In general the top school grads are pretty smart otherwise they wont be there, and they have a good network through school. This does not mean that if you did not go to a top 10 school you cant build an impressive network by being in an industry like I-banking or mgmt consulting but it takes more initiative.
Ana: I agree with you. I was merely stating that day to day JOb functions are not merely predicated on going to a top notch business school. But if you look at the decision makers at most well known companies they have come out of top 10 b-schools. It is not to say that others who have not the pedigree can't be in a similar position but a HBS hirer would look at a HBS grad, like a Y-Som would look after his/her own legacy.
Fruadz: Delivery means what? Most senior level people in I-banks and Mang. Consulting or even industry firms have accountants to do their ABC and project managers to do their flowcharts. It's the relationships at the top that bring business. I remember during Accounting class, the professor telling us just to learn the concept and do one problem because we would have accountants who work for us. Guess what...it's true. And this has nothing to do with individual capability. I know that the instances that Ana mentioned are absolutely true. There are ivy league grads who clam up when giving a presentation and then there are those who for whatever reason took a different path but are proverbial superstars.
In the end...we are all right...I am amazed and completely dumbfounded that we all can have similar views on gupshup. :)
Yeah guys, it is *very very * hard to build viable and useful networks at a state school, or after graduating from that. That's very true. The road to the top from a grade-C or below school - is verrrrrrry arduous and long. Graduating from a top institution - or even taking classes at a good school - catapults u to almost immediate stardom. That's quite true. After that, it's all up to you to deliver on the goods.
Kids, once u get that hard-earned diploma from wherever - a sincere word of advice: try to avoid the scenario of "and would you like fries with that", coz no one can beat enthusiastic high-school drop-outs who will do anything to keep their job. :)
delivery meaning, being able to do your job well. Relationships may get you to a place, but then you have to show that you deserve to be there because the higher you go up, the competition gets harder.
There would always be other people, from your own school or other competing schools with the same type of contacts and same type of networks.
Basically I am saying that having the network does get you to play in the big league, better companies, better positions. But everyone there got there either because of their network or because of their skills. Thats when competition starts.
Ivy and other top school grads may play in the major leagues sooner, and other grads may play in minor leagues, but they all have to compete. If you have a great network and someone else has a great network, the person with the better skills wins.
in my view in a techie job its 20% relationships and 80% brains while its the other way round when you move up. Yes there are a lot of top tier people at the top but if you look at the top management positions in all firms you will notice plenty of non top schoolers either... It all depends on what people gain out of the school experience and how they can leverage it.
Harvard is known more for the network of people that gain their then through emersion in theory and though processes. Ask any MIT student! :).
Harvard Business School is recognized because it is the oldest (if I remember correctly) and has a huge alumni (each year these days they have over a 1000 people graduating!). The network effect that people read about in the internet comes into play here because each of alums is interested in using the network of alums and the group as a whole rises to the top.
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I was just kidding yara!
I'm not Harvard bashing, but why is that the adminstrators have to come across with the attitude and a sense of immediate superiority? My HBS interview was positively the worst interview I have ever done in my life because it felt like I was a supplicant not an applicant.
If you have residency status in michigan.
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You are right, I live in MI and my bro goes to UofM and its not bad, but I do know others who do go there and are not from MI and do pay much much more then the residents of MI.
For Engineering, these are the best:
MIT, Stanford, UC-Berkley, CalTech, GeorgiaTech, U of Illinois-Urbana Champaign, UT-Austin, Purdue, U of Michigan-Ann Arbor.