Benazir with an enemy of Islam (merged)

I have been reading this forum (again) since the elections.

Given the usual way of things on these forums that this wasn’t posted by anyone. While Benazir’s latest verbal venom against General Musharraf and the Islamic forces in Pakistan is nothing new , this is the first time she has gotten together with an Isreali Prime Minister to utter this poison.
Benazir Bhutto and Ex-Isreali prime minister Ehud Barak bot delivered lectures for the University of Arkansas last thursday and even addressed a joint press conferrence and jointly addressed a public rally.

What do the supporters of Benazir and Peoples Party on this forum have to say on this?

Was it just her natural hatred for Islam and the equally natural lust for power or did a pie of the handy $175000 for taking part in the event also play a part in her decision to join Ehud Barak for this joint public meeting.

While it is easy to imagine many liberal twists to this, it will still be interesting to know what the supporters have to say about this.

http://www.nwaonline.net/276165797126978.bsp

By Johnathon Williams

The Morning News/NWAonline.net •

FAYETTEVILLE – A military dictatorship with the support of the United States is allowing religious fundamentalism to gain power in Pakistan, a former prime minister of Pakistan said Thursday.

Benazir Bhutto, who served as prime minister of Pakistan until her government was unconstitutionally ousted by a rival political party, said the government led by General Pervez Musharraf has sabotaged attempts at free and honest elections and remains in power to the detriment of democracy in the nation.

The United States is seen as Musharraf’s strongest supporter, she said. U.S. leaders must tell Pakistan that only democratic governments and free markets can defeat extremism and terrorism, she said. The Pakistani government rightly joined America in the war on terrorism, she said, but other political parties in the country would have as well. The battle against religious extremism and terrorism is one that must be won, she said.

“America does not need to coddle dictators to promote its own interests,” she said.

Bhutto made the remarks during a number of appearances at the University of Arkansas. She was joined by Ehud Barak, a former prime minister of Israel. The pair were brought to campus by a lecture series created last year with the approval of a new student fee. The Distinguished Lecturer’s Fee generates about $175,000 per year and is administered by a committee of faculty members and students.

Bhutto and Barak spoke in a closed forum to a select group of faculty members and students at 4 p.m. in Giffels Auditorium. They spoke to local media representatives at 5 p.m.

They spoke again at 8 p.m. in Barnhill Arena to the general public. UA officials distributed about 6,500 free tickets for the public event.

At the news conference, both leaders spoke about the U.S.-led initiative to gather international support for military action against Iraq.

Barak said he believes the United States can get authorization for military action from the U.N. Security Council. France and Russia, two nations that have opposed any such military action, will agree to a “properly worded” resolution from the council authorizing the use of force against Iraq, he said. China, another nation on the security council whose support for such action is lacking, could abstain from voting on any such resolution, he said.

Barak said those who think the world should take a wait-and-see approach to Iraq and weapons of mass destruction should remember that Saddam Hussein has used such weapons against his own people. The world learned the price of such an attitude in Europe during World War II, he said. No one knows how close Hussein is to building even a crude nuclear weapon, he said.

Bhutto said President Bush has been wise to take the patient path toward gaining international support rather than leading the United States into a rash and unilateral military action against Iraq.

There is a lot of confusion in the international community as to America’s motivation for military action against Iraq, she said. U.S. officials have said it is to disarm the nation of weapons of mass destruction, she said, but there has also been talk of regime change and oil. This confusion can and must be dispelled, she said.

At the public event, Bhutto said terrorists have hijacked the religion of Islam just as they hijacked the American planes destroyed on Sept. 11, 2001. Terrorists have tried to paint their battle as a clash of cultures between the Western world and Islam, but it is not, she said.

“I want you to know that those who use violence in the name of Islam are hypocrites and heretics. … They are not clerics, they are criminals,” she said.

Barak said the terrorism inflicted upon Israel by the Palestinian Authority is an attempt to make suicide bombings a legitimate political force. The attacks on Israel by the Palestinian Authority are about terror, not about Israeli occupation or control of the Palestinian people, he said.

If the violence was only about occupation, he said, the Palestinian Authority would have agreed to the peace plan brokered by President Clinton at Camp David years ago.

The consequence of a united global community is that the future of the children of the affluent is directly tied to the future of the children of the impoverished, he said. All people must work to eliminate the poverty and disease that burden many developing nations, he said.

Bhutto became the youngest chief executive officer in the world and the first female prime minister in the Muslim world upon her election at the age of 35. After just 20 months in office, her government was unconstitutionally dismissed by a rival political party. She was again elected as prime minister in 1993. Bhutto resides in Dubai and makes frequent trips to the United States.

Barak was Israel’s 10th prime minister upon his election in 1999. His term saw the end of a prolonged recession in Israel, as an economic boom brought 5.9-percent annual growth, new foreign investments and near-zero inflation. He led Israeli efforts to negotiate a peace agreement with the Palestinian Authority, although those efforts were ultimately unsuccessful. Before his service as prime minister, Barak served extensively in the Israeli military. He joined the Israeli Defense Forces in 1959 as a soldier and achieved the rank of lieutenant general – the highest in the Israeli military – in 1991.

Both leaders attended universities in the United States. Barak attended Stanford University, after the start of his military career. Bhutto attended Harvard University.

She is a shameless traitor who will be seen with any liberal western politician in her desperation to return to power. Someone should ask her and her diehard supporters, why she is prepared to dine with people her father detested and who regard Pakistan as a direct threat to them.

This is what Barak thinks of Arabs and Muslims:-

Was Barak telling the truth? - The ex-PM’s disparagement of the Palestinians began long ago](Was Barak telling the truth? | Yoav Peled | The Guardian)

Benazir took down the name of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto! :disgust:

Re: Benazir with an enemy of Islam

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ahmed: *

Bhutto became the youngest chief executive officer in the world and the first female prime minister in the Muslim world upon her election at the age of 35. After just 20 months in office, her government was unconstitutionally dismissed by a rival political party. She was again elected as prime minister in 1993. Bhutto resides in Dubai and makes frequent trips to the United States.

Barak was Israel's 10th prime minister upon his election in 1999. His term saw the end of a prolonged recession in Israel, as an economic boom brought 5.9-percent annual growth, new foreign investments and near-zero inflation. He led Israeli efforts to negotiate a peace agreement with the Palestinian Authority, although those efforts were ultimately unsuccessful. Before his service as prime minister, Barak served extensively in the Israeli military. He joined the Israeli Defense Forces in 1959 as a soldier and achieved the rank of lieutenant general -- the highest in the Israeli military -- in 1991.

Both leaders attended universities in the United States. Barak attended Stanford University, after the start of his military career. Bhutto attended Harvard University.
[/QUOTE]

here is whats very telling, however much you like or dislike these ppl. I happen to dislike both of them but here is something i just noticed.

Do you notice that they have accomplishments of Barak's regime . economy and even peace efforts (however insincere some may say) but in front of benazir's name there is nothing..I mean she did ride the coat tails of her dead dad and influential mother (who benazir later marginalized) but she accomplished diddly squat..Nothing to claim

Ahmad dont put misleading subject lines in ur posts.. trying to portray that BB agreed with enemy of Islam.. Two ex- PM are giving lectures..wuz wrong with that each expressing their own perspective! and those views are entirely different..

I think Malik sahib didnt read the above posted thing and only read the subject line!

.. Benazir gave great and rational views which speaks of her insight of world affairs.. Her feelings are true reflective of muslim world today.. can anyone pick a single thing she said thats not according to Pakistans welfare? Our delimma shamelessly is that wheereever we see Israel's name we go wild.. I think if a single jew family ever tried to settle in paksitan they will be killed immediately just like we are proudly killing minorities thank to the above mentioned views by our guppies.. Two ex- PM are giving lectures..wuz wrong with that each expressing their own perspective! and those views are entirely different..

Thats the reasom PPP got maximum votes this time since people of pakistan can make rational choice.. peopel who just hate PPP and BB and utter their venom at all timewont even read ..

If u cant read I can post her points from above report..

A military dictatorship with the support of the United States is allowing religious fundamentalism to gain power in Pakistan, a former prime minister of Pakistan said Thursday.

** true! **

... General Pervez Musharraf has sabotaged attempts at free and honest elections and remains in power to the detriment of democracy in the nation.
** who can deny that! **

"America does not need to coddle dictators to promote its own interests," she said.
** thats a great flaw in US foreign ploicy **

Bhutto said President Bush has been wise to take the patient path toward gaining international support rather than leading the United States into a rash and unilateral military action against Iraq.

** Thats what we need International sanction and not unilateral attack! **

There is a lot of confusion in the international community as to America's motivation for military action against Iraq, she said. U.S. officials have said it is to disarm the nation of weapons of mass destruction, she said, but there has also been talk of regime change and oil. This confusion can and must be dispelled, she said.

** great analysis **

At the public event, Bhutto said terrorists have hijacked the religion of Islam just as they hijacked the American planes destroyed on Sept. 11, 2001. Terrorists have tried to paint their battle as a clash of cultures between the Western world and Islam, but it is not, she said.

** OBL has tried to make hate his religion.. **

"I want you to know that those who use violence in the name of Islam are hypocrites and heretics. ... They are not clerics, they are criminals," she said.

** yes they are criminals against humanity.. **

Degas

Are you sure BB is the daughter of ZAB?

First PPP said, they ain't gonna make Govt. with King's Party

Next day, Fahim bhai apologized with Musharraf on behalf of BB.

Wait, are you living in the same world?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
**Degas
*

Are you sure BB is the daughter of ZAB?

First PPP said, they ain't gonna make Govt. with King's Party

Next day, Fahim bhai apologized with Musharraf on behalf of BB.

Wait, are you living in the same world?
[/QUOTE]

Pakistani Tiger,

ur sure ur questions are in the context of this post?

Just read what BB and Barak said according to their perceptions and point out where BB is wrong!! Every person has the right according to exposure to express his/her views when the moment arises.. BB just did the right thing.. ur just following what Malik without a single reference to the topic showed his inherent hatred for BB is doing above.. Prophet Muhamammad used to meet jews and Christians all the time and even had Suleh-e-Hudaibia when the need arose.. so meeting them and expressing ones own views is not at all wrong.. we reglectfully just see a heading and starting fuming our pre-determined views..

Warning - Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
Ahmad dont put misleading subject lines in ur posts.. trying to portray that BB agreed with enemy of Islam.. Two ex- PM are giving lectures..wuz wrong with that each expressing their own perspective! and those views are entirely different..

I think Malik sahib didnt read the above posted thing and only read the subject line!

[/QUOTE]

I read it perfectly well. What would her father think of BB hob knobbing with the Zionist enemy? And this is not her first occasion - she has met Shimon Peres on a previous occasion.

btw, talking about military dictators overthrowing governments. Did BB not support General Musharraf's military coup against Nawazu? And do you know why Mr Fahim is apologising to that same military dictator for her utterances?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

I read it perfectly well. What would her father think of BB hob knobbing with the Zionist enemy? And this is not her first occasion - she has met Shimon Peres on a previous occasion.

[/QUOTE]

And meeting them is gunah! Leaders always meet discuss their view points.. palestinians daily meet Israilis.. if u read again both leaders expressed their views which are entirely different and presented in front of audiences.. did they said they agreed on any point! If any indian would debate I would certainly get up and defend Pakistan.. PPP and Benazir have always stood for just rights of Palestinians.

Now if u want Amin Fahim discussed here what can I say?

ok u didnt like this point in her views
"talking about military dictators overthrowing governments" as u like those dictators I know but how about her views about USA foreign policy and its flaws? About USA unilateral action and worlds confusion about USA's motivation for Iraq's action? Is she wrong here by delivering a clear cut message in USA about USA foreign plicy!

Next time my Pakistani professor joins in a lecture following his Indian counterpart, I will make a thread, highlighting him as the enemy of Islam...

Some people need to open their minds a bit...

.. and unfortunately in the end Urdu dailies like PPP haters "Nawai Waqt" will have heading that BB is working with Israel against Pakistan :D as has been done before - we have now a habbit to post out of context things !

Re: Benazir with an enemy of Islam

Ahmed,

As u wrote..
What do the supporters of Benazir and Peoples Party on this forum have to say on this?

** I guess we have said enough! **

Was it just her natural hatred for Islam for taking part in the event also play a part in her decision to join Ehud Barak for this joint public meeting.

** In fact if u read the post u posted she skillfully defended Islam's point of view! and apprehensions about USA's attack on Iraq and worlds confusion about it..

And why she should not discuss at a meeting and leave ground open for Israel? I guess we need more outspoken people who can refute Israel's claims and bring forward our point of view.. **

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *

Pakistani Tiger,

ur sure ur questions are in the context of this post?

Just read what BB and Barak said according to their perceptions and point out where BB is wrong!! Every person has the right according to exposure to express his/her views when the moment arises.. BB just did the right thing.. ur just following what Malik without a single reference to the topic showed his inherent hatred for BB is doing above.. Prophet Muhamammad used to meet jews and Christians all the time and even had Suleh-e-Hudaibia when the need arose.. so meeting them and expressing ones own views is not at all wrong.. we reglectfully just see a heading and starting fuming our pre-determined views..
[/QUOTE]

Degas,

I don't care whom ever Benazir meet with. I have no problems with that. But she should stop being fool of herself like I mentioned it before.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

Degas,

I don't care whom ever Benazir meet with. I have no problems with that. But she should stop being fool of herself like I mentioned it before.
[/QUOTE]

.. so u appreciate the points she discussed there! she while in USA clearly criticized USA foreign policy issues regarding Iraq..

Degas, first of all thank you. Thank you for giving (almost to the word) the replies that I had imagined as when I said "While it is easy to imagine many liberal twists to this, it will still be interesting to know what the supporters have to say about this. " your arguments are exactly what I had in mind. Just shows how some people will never learn.

Now first of all my subject isn't misleading. I said benazir with an enemy of islam, and as you can see int he picture in that link she is with him. And if you read through it will become clear that they were together for quite a bit of time. If anyone misunderstands my topic that is not my responsibility.

Now what's wrong with being an Israeli PM if you are expressing you're opinion you ask? Well if that is the level of understanding you guys have than I can be explaining what's wrong till Qiyamat and you won't get it.
Like your friend spock said, "Next time my Pakistani professor joins in a lecture following his Indian counterpart, I will make a thread, highlighting him as the enemy of Islam... "
Bright. Just Bright. You guys must really think it is the same as two professors meeting each other.
Rather than wasting my time on expalining this to you guys let me just ask you and spock this question?
Why would jimmy carter never be seen dead in the same position as the 2 personalities in question in this thread with let's say a Hamas leader?
Or why wouldn't someone like Henry Kissinger be seen dead in such a position with someone like Mulla Omar?

And this isn't the only thing benazir has done. There are many other great "deeds" of treachery on her record.

Nice Degas. :) Very nice effort at putting a spin on reality.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
Thats the reasom PPP got maximum votes this time since people of pakistan can make rational choice.. peopel who just hate PPP and BB and utter their venom at all timewont even read .
[/QUOTE]

She won because of PML division plain and simple. But again that's not our topic , is it? In addition to reminding other people of the topic you should also try to keep on it yourself. :)

Now your arguments, one by one.

"A military dictatorship with the support of the United States is allowing religious fundamentalism to gain power in Pakistan, a former prime minister of Pakistan said Thursday.
** true! **"

That is not true at all. It's just a prime example of benazir's treachrous outbursts of frustration. What does she mean by that.
What exactly does this type of remark mean in international relations I am sure you are not aware.
So what is she trying to say? Give me power because Musharraf can't do your (U.S.'s) dirty work of oppressing Islam?
Musharraf isn't any friend of the Islamic forces in pakistan so it is factually wrong of benazir to say he is allowing it. But she has to, in order to make her case for 'Iqtidaar' at any price in front of the great uncle. That might even include each and every Islamic force in pakistan as extremis and fundamentalism until nothing but secular american/israeli puppets are left. And who exactly are 'fundamentalists'?
Wait a minute, aren't they the same people she is trying to form a government with?? And aren't they the same people who she has formed a government with in past aswell??
If you guys still believe in her it's your moral death.

"... General Pervez Musharraf has sabotaged attempts at free and honest elections and remains in power to the detriment of democracy in the nation.
** who can deny that! **"

Well Well well. General Musharraf may not be the greatest democrat ever born, he may even be a dictator, but then if that was so how come peoples party got a lot more seats underhim than she did in 97 under leghari? And how come she has not rejected the elections outright and still trying to form a government under the same dictator?
Now most of us haven't forgotten untill she had any hopes for a 'deal' regarding her own cases and Asif's she was saying things like "I will win these elections and then share power with Musharraf" just before the
elections. Where was the sabotager dictator then.
Watch out for more about turns from benazir in future.

"America does not need to coddle dictators to promote its own interests," she said.
** thats a great flaw in US foreign ploicy **"

Yeah, but Benazir wasn't saying it when he ousted rival oops 'brother' Nawaz from power. She is on record welcoming Musharraf then and praising him. Even a fuve year old kid know benazir is just making her case of power against a rival and doesn't give a damn about US foriegn policy flaws!

"Bhutto said President Bush has been wise to take the patient path toward gaining international support rather than leading the United States into a rash and unilateral military action against Iraq.

** Thats what we need International sanction and not unilateral attack! **"

There is a lot of confusion in the international community as to America's motivation for military action against Iraq, she said. U.S. officials have said it is to disarm the nation of weapons of mass destruction, she said, but there has also been talk of regime change and oil. This confusion can and must be dispelled, she said.

** great analysis **"

Yeah Iraq. Well it's easy to say that since the entire world including american allies are saying it. No loss of points with the uncle for this.
Plus she lives in dubai. She can hardly afford to say anything else. Arabs don't look kindly at any interference.

"At the public event, Bhutto said terrorists have hijacked the religion of Islam just as they hijacked the American planes destroyed on Sept. 11, 2001. Terrorists have tried to paint their battle as a clash of cultures between the Western world and Islam, but it is not, she said.

** OBL has tried to make hate his religion.. **"

Yes, I am sure it's benazir bhutto that represents true Islam.

Re: Re: Benazir with an enemy of Islam

Well, that’s really a very interesting point degas!
Nice twist I must say.
Benazir wasn’t there to present an alternate view to that of Barak’s.
She was there to follow her own agenda of maligning the Islamic forces in pakistan and for maligning Pervez Musharraf for not giving her power.

Benazir merely spread her own venom against pakistan and Islam and she didn’t refute any of barak’s points.
Not a word from Benazir about Isreali attrocities and Injustices, Not even a single sookha word about suffering of the palestinians.

And this when Barak openly called the palestinian government and the palestinian people as terrorists.

What ground exactly was she covering Degas, if she wasn’t leaving it open???

Benazir’s total silence on that and the meek reply that muslims aren’t terrorsits and those who use violence are criminals. Oh yeah that!
Not countering Barak but almost helping him. Some outspoken person bringing forward “our” point of view!

Admit it Degas , she was there for her own agenda and doesn’t care about what limits she has to cross to get power and save her wealth.
And no doubt to make some more of it form the lecture. :disgust:

Benazir is a crook same as nawaz sharif is a crook as is Musharaff a stooge of america.

Dining with israeli murderers of muslims is nothing new our current dictator wines and dines with the best of people with muslim blood on there hands.

Last month, Benazir Bhutto’s Pakistan People’s Party held a widely advertised gathering in Trafalgar Square, London. A sparse crowd of a few hundred turned up. Benazir had the audacity to ask this rhetorical question:

**“Pakistan ke Pesa Kaha Ghayah hai?” [Where has Pakistan’s money gone?] **

To which one man in the crowd shouted back:

**“Hum Aap se Poochtehai, Pakistan ke Pesa Kaha Ghayah hai?” [We want to ask you, where has Pakistan’s money gone?] **

The people are not stupid they know a crook when they see one :hehe: