Degas how can you support a woman who on national tv says we were responsible for the attack of 13th Dec? National patriotism does override petty differences in all nations even india. Except in Pakistan where the leaders hob nob to get the great US to back them up as the next pm. If Bhutto is so innocent why isnt she in Pakistan now dealing with the cases against her? Why does she live in the UK with stolen money. There was an article in the Tribune de Geneve nearly 2 years ago about the swiss recognizing that Bhutto has bank accounts that were declared before.
apart from every comments,
why BB didnt mention Israel operession , wasnt the good oppertunity to show that when israeli was saying about Palestine terrorism? it was.
but Pakistani leaders, doesnt have courage to say anything at right time and at right place! atleast musharraf say something at international level with confidence.
"USA doest have to coddle dictators for support!
I really wana compelte this sentence.
------ we(BB) soft cornored democratic (hypocrates) are also available"
Isn't BB's PPPP party trying to do a deal with the MMA religous parties right now?
It kinda reduces all that stuff she's spouting to hot air IMO.
11 Elul 5761, Thursday Aug. 30, 2001 Last updated: (12:01)
**Pakistan seeks hi-tech cooperation with Israel **
By Buzzy Gordon
August 28, 18:00 – Tel Aviv-based Matimop, the government-linked research and development center for Israeli industry, announced that it has received its first request for hi-tech cooperation from Pakistan, a Muslim country that does
not have diplomatic relations with Israel.
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/08/28/Digital/Digital.33619.html
Height of hypocrisy - If Benazir becomes an enemy of Islam by just giving a lecture in the same meeting, what do you say about Pak govt ??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
.. so u appreciate the points she discussed there! she while in USA clearly criticized USA foreign policy issues regarding Iraq..
[/QUOTE]
Yeppers!
nothing wrong. why surprise? evrione today talks zulfiqar as saint - when alive same people gave death to him. also evrione called Musha names and then suddenly he is god for same people. everione says banazir is bad but same people electinng her party lots. why, because always we elect from two less evils thats all.
thats same in all place evriwhere. in india elect who is less corupt by bribing etc. bloody criminals and fools also sometime get tickets from party and come to lok sabha. only thing difrent is no Musha or army coup etc. that way lots better/
in us also people choice between dumb and dumber i think.
what is bad pakistan election though is Musha is lie dictator and peopel elect not fool but terrorist molvi...thats what is beanazir is saying. if you read carefully you will also say same thing. as far barak and co, who cares!
Re: Benazir with an enemy of Islam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ahmed: *
I have been reading this forum (again) since the elections.
Given the usual way of things on these forums that this wasn't posted by anyone. While Benazir's latest verbal venom against General Musharraf and the Islamic forces in Pakistan is nothing new , this is the first time she has gotten together with an Isreali Prime Minister to utter this poison.
Benazir Bhutto and Ex-Isreali prime minister Ehud Barak bot delivered lectures for the University of Arkansas last thursday and even addressed a joint press conferrence and jointly addressed a public rally.
What do the supporters of Benazir and Peoples Party on this forum have to say on this?
[/QUOTE]
Well what is the problem with getting in touch with the Israelis, is it because it is said in the Quran that they are our enemies?????
Well if that is the case, then it is also written that the Christians and the Jews are enemies of Islam and Musilms.
Why are the Moolahs so uptight about the Jews and they relax when it comes to the Christians??????
Why is Fazalur Rehman, who in the previous BB regime so happy over supporting her, well it was because of his famous diesel permits which gave him the name of Maulana Diesel. Why is he again trying to reassure the west about their intentions?? Because he is as power hungry as the rest.
I dont want to criticize anyone, but the question is that why this dichotomy between the selective choice of Jews and Christians as the enemies??
Let us be just people.
Perhaps the great Degas hasn't got anything more left to say?
Such good English! 
One almost thinks it is phony and on purpose. Are you sure you are you?
Did i read “lie detector” somewhere down there ? 
Her appearence in a personal capacity is perfectly ok, we no longer represents Pakistan.
ok sir.ahmed …i was well education in english and also all subjects. why only white skin good for english? you have slave mentality ?
also yes i can be able to lie detector because i detect musha’s lies also! okay?
but more important than perosanal atcking on peoples english, matter of discusion is more important.
Benazir with Enemy of Islam
See what the ‘Daughter of the East’ is doing in the West.
"Bhutto and Barak spoke in a closed forum to a select group of faculty members and students at 4 p.m. in Giffels Auditorium. They spoke to local media representatives at 5 p.m.
They spoke again at 8 p.m. in Barnhill Arena to the general public. UA officials distributed about 6,500 free tickets for the public event.
At the news conference, both leaders spoke about the U.S.-led initiative to gather international support for military action against Iraq. "
*Originally posted by Ahmed: *
Now first of all my subject isn't misleading. I said benazir with an enemy of islam, and as you can see int he picture in that link she is with him. And if you read through it will become clear that they were together for quite a bit of time. If anyone misunderstands my topic that is not my responsibility.
** I am again at loss in ur thinking why cant a muslim can be with a jew ! Arafat meet Israili counter part everyday for a just and rational solution of mid-east problem.. and that what every sane person wants.. break from the bloodshed and peaceful settlement so that Israilis and palestinians can live side by side.. what u want? **
Now what's wrong with being an Israeli PM if you are expressing you're opinion you ask? Well if that is the level of understanding you guys have than I can be explaining what's wrong till Qiyamat and you won't get it.
** Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) used to meet with them and even had trade with them.. Islam doesnt teach hating some one... all humans are Allah's creation! **
Why would jimmy carter never be seen dead in the same position as the 2 personalities in question in this thread with let's say a Hamas leader?
** If hamas want peaceful settlement it would be great that they meet Carter.. but if they want only to kill Israilis then its Un-Islamic and immoral! whereas other Islamic groups that are peaceful have better chance.. **
plus ur obseesion of that OBL is shameful for muslims! his religion is hate and killing all western and USA civilians is his life motto! forgetting that there are millions of muslims in west and USA too.. its Allah's grace very few muslims in the world follow his hate policy..
That's nice Degas. At last you decided to post a reply. But now there were more than one points that you had to reply to and you have only handled one so it's really an incomplete reply. Just to help you, Benazir meeting Barak was just one point. What was said in that meeting is also very much the issue. I have explained myself in my posts above. 2 or 3 of them. And since i was replying directly to you , I am still waiting for your response to that.
So I'll wait and then put my response.
Why is it that we Muslims are so hungup about what the other person believes in. Who cares??? The Christians dont, The Jews dont, the Buddists dont, nobody does except us. We let this kafir and non-kafir thing get in the way of every day life. I see this here in the UK, its pathetic. We are so pre-occupied with this that it is stopping us from progressing. In the UK you see this in the 3rd generation Muslim youth who do nothing but cause problems with non-muslims, damage their property, threaten them, rioting, why? Because they have been programmed by their elders and the Imams that it is US and THEM!
So what if BB spoke with the Israeli, big deal! (I'm no great supporter of any party in Pakistan).
I would like to put it so called Muslims of Pakistan. When ever there is a demonstration in the Arab world, particularly in Palestine, has Kashmir ever been mentioned, NO. Has Chechnya been mentioned, NO. They only make noise about themselves. The Arabs don't give a Sh*t about Muslims outside their borders, SO WHY SHOULD WE!!
Egypt, Syria, Jordon, Turkey and other Arab Muslim countries recognise Israel, WHY DON'T WE? Pakistan has nothing in common with the Arab world. We don't gain by not recognising, everything to gain if we do!
The day Pakistan recognises Israel that day will change Pakistan, money wise, technology wise, weapons etc, because Israel is the US of the EAST, position in South east asia on the whole will change. India will not be able count on Israel in a war, as Israel would also be allied will Pakistan. We would benefit from this alliance greatly. Our own Prophet (pbuh) did business with the Jews. We don't have any quarms with Israel and they don't with us. The Arabs who recognise them are benefiting from them, and its about time we did as well. In Punjabi they say "Dushman vi kam arjanda"
This subject of Pakistan recognising Israel is picking up slowly in the UK.
Originally posted by Daniyal: *
**Why is it that we Muslims are so hungup about what the other person believes in. Who cares??? ....that it is US and THEM! *
Daniyal I agree that this whole who believes in hwta sort of issue has plagued us and this is nothign new. You are right in noting that it does nothing but makes us weak, unorganized, stuck in minutia and not focused on the future etc etc.
Uk specially got affected by the ouritanical rural mentalities of tens of thousands of illiterate transplants from our villages who moved to UK but did not grow as people. their offspring are the same way.
*So what if BB spoke with the Israeli, big deal! (I'm no great supporter of any party in Pakistan). *
well thats a diff issue, there is not problem in her in a program with another former incompetent PM like herself, but her approach is wrong. In yourt first paragraph you noted how we are always infighitng about beliefs and this and that.
Now loo at politics the same way. do you see clinton, overseas and openly slamming everything that had nothing to dow ith his government.. I mean he would still have a leg to stand on because his government actually did something. How can someone liek benazir just go and byatch about everything. Does everyone forget what her regime was like?
*I would like to put it so called Muslims of Pakistan..... SO WHY SHOULD WE!! *
You are correct in noting that the arab world is not really concerned with the problems or challenges of others outside its borders. They do what is in their best interest. But even if something is not in our best interest, but it opposses a wrong, should you not oppose it?
*Egypt, Syria, Jordon, Turkey and other Arab Muslim countries recognise Israel, WHY DON'T WE? Pakistan has nothing in common with the Arab world. We don't gain by not recognising, everything to gain if we do! *
Turkey is not an arab country :) try calling a turk an arab sometime :)
once again I agree that we should really question as a ntion why dont we recognize Israel, but if we choose to do it we should do it for the right reasons not just for the sake of gaining something.
*The day Pakistan recognises Israel that day will change Pakistan, money wise, technology wise, weapons etc, because Israel is the US of the EAST, position in South east asia on the whole will change. India will not be able count on Israel in a war, as Israel would also be allied will Pakistan. We would benefit from this alliance greatly. *
Alliances with greater powers did not help Pakistan in 1971.
**
Our own Prophet (pbuh) did business with the Jews. We don't have any quarms with Israel and they don't with us. The Arabs who recognise them are benefiting from them, and its about time we did as well. In Punjabi they say "Dushman vi kam arjanda" **
I have no issues with Pakistan doign business with Israel, but even then if you see there is something wrong in that country, you should speak up. Does US not comment on human rights situations in countries that it considers as allies, even Israel and Saudi Arabia?
*This subject of Pakistan recognising Israel is picking up slowly in the UK. *
I would be interesting in hearing more on this topic and what sort of tone is being set and what is ebing heard etc.
There are 2 diff topics here. Pakistan's dealing with Israel, in which case I think I am mostly ina greements with you, and the second one is of how our "leaders' like altaf and banzir operate, which is disgraceful.
That said, I think Benazir's behaviour is nothing short of shameful and lame. She wants any opportunity to mouth off and her only conern is with her own power. I am a great admirer of her father who aside from some disasterous miscalculations was a great statesman. She shares the same last name as him, but thats about it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Daniyal: *
The day Pakistan recognises Israel that day will change Pakistan.
[/quote]
Let Israel recognize Pakistan first ;)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Let Israel recognize Pakistan first ;)
[/QUOTE]
ooh I was waiting to hear that one :)