Re: Believer Ask Forgiveness Of Non-Believer (Polytheist)
^^^ Brother, if you had read and understood my posts you would not have asked question or written what you wrote in above post, as I have already answered each and every thing you are asking in my previous posts.
No one is saying that you should pray for forgiveness of someone you think died as ‘Mushrik’ as that is your right (so you should not be concerned) … but we are talking about validity of praying for forgiveness when someone is close … and excuse for praying.
Even though it is surprising that you did not understood what I have written, I will try to clear it again … referring to your above post.
You are talking about a person, a relative, who died (obviously hypothetical situation, still) … and claiming that he was unrepentant even when Islam was presented and preached to him. He died actively resisting and opposing Islam until his last moment. The person praying knows on account of consistant and stubborn refusal by person who died, that the desceased may have died as unbeliever and doors of mercy was closed on him.
Now tell me (or at least think), whatever you claimed, how the ‘person praying’ knows with certainty (clearly) that the person who died did not repented in heart to Allah at last moment of his death, and thus died as unbeliever?
Regardless of his actively resisting and opposing the faith, how the person praying knows that he did not accepted the faith in his heart at last minute before his death?
Most ridiculous statement is that person praying ‘knows’ … Knows, but how?
Is the one praying consider that he is Allah so he knows every bit of what is in heart of the person who died, or knows that the person died has surely did not repented and accepted Islam because the person praying gets knowledge directly from Allah?
You might say that it is unlikely that the person repented, and remote possibility that he did, still no one can say for certain that person repented or not, as even if there is 0.0001 percent possibility (or even lower), we cannot say that certainty is there.
As Muslim, we believe that what is in the heart of a person only Allah knows, and for us that is unknown. While dead person was alive, we can only consider that person unbeliever because he must be confessing that he does not believe. But after death, we cannot consider him unbeliever with certainty (in clear way), because we are not Allah, neither we get wahi (we are not prophet), nor we have any means to know that the person has accepted the belief or not before death (that could be last moment in dead person life or at anytime). Not knowing about reality clearly, we can assume (make guman) that the person may have repented and believed before death (even if that may represent 0.0001 percent or lower chance), leaving rest on Allah.
I hope what I wrote above (as Muslim) would be clear to you … and if not, please read it again carefully.
As for the ayahs you quoted (9: 113, 114 and 115) … few things are clearly mentioned there.
One: Ayah talk about a person (Azar) who Muslim believe was not biological father, but father like figure for Ibrahim (AS) … hence is mentioned in ayah as father.
Second: Ibrahim (AS) was prophet, so he use to get wahi, and that is how he knew that Azar died as unbeliever, hence ayah 9:113 (after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire) applies on Ibrahim (AS) due to Ibrahim (AS) getting wahi, but since we are neither Alalh, neither Prophet of Allah who gets wahi, neither have company of prophet who can tell us, neither saint who may get Ilham, we cannot make judgment that the person who died surely died as Mushrik.
Ayah 9:114 and 115 … also talks about same thing, that … Ibrahim (AS) disassociated himself from praying for forgiveness of Azar once it became clear to him that he died unbeliever … and obviously it became clear to Ibrahim (AS) because of Wahi from Allah, else he could not have had such knowledge … that is also told to us Muslims in ayah 9:115 that Allah guided Ibrahim (AS) and made it clear to him (about Azar).
Obviously, if the person who died has no relation with us then we can ignore such person, but if that person is related to us (hypothetical situation) than we can assume (can have guman) that is best for the dead person … and one of the assumption could be that he may have died as believer (we cannot be certain of anything, but hope could be there), so we can pray (assumption or not knowing with certainty is excuse).
Just look at Ayahs in sequence:
Ayah 9:113 … It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.
It is not right to pray for people who are polytheists even if they are kin … But when not to pray for them? … Is there condition?
After … it is clear that they are companions of fire.
Ayah 9:114 … And Abraham prayed for his father’s forgiveness only because of a promise he had made to him. But when it became clear to him that he was an enemy to Allah, he dissociated himself from him: for Abraham was most tender-hearted, forbearing.
Story of Ibrahim (AS) … that Ibraim (AS) prayed for forgiveness of his father (Azar … who we Muslim consider was father like figure to Ibrahim (AS), hence mentioned as father).
So, why Ibrahim (AS) stopped praying and dissociated himself from Azar?
When it became clear to Ibrahim (AS) that Azar was enemy of Allah.
How it became clear, next ayah tells that … it is Allah who made it clear to Ibrahim (AS) and one way to make clear something to prophet (AS) is through wahi (or ilham or dream or whatever)
Ayah 9:115 … And Allah will not mislead a people after He hath guided them, in order that He may make clear to them what to fear (and avoid)- for Allah hath knowledge of all things.
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