Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

[Iconoclast]

@hanibal

. On top of that, the so-called Muslims Legend of Imam Mehdi itself cannot be proved from Saheen, both Imam Bukhari and Imam Malik have rejected all the ahadees regarding the coming of Mehdi. although few hadeeses are their in other books of ahadees, but cerdibility of those books and those ahadees carries a question mark on it.

…

Thats quite a statement to make hanibal. Do you have any detailed essay or reading upon this issue that i can read. On a personal level i have been skeptical of concept of Mahdi since i saw it in almost every religion. But all i heard from clergy is that there are too many Sahih Ahadees to doubt this concept. So are there no Ahadith about Mahdi in both Bukhari and Muslim? Also where did you read the statement of Imam Malik about Mahdi?

I have also heard from clergy that even whe Mahdi as comes belief in him being the true Mahdi is not a requisite of Iman or Islam.

[hanibal]

Thats quite a statement to make hanibal. Do you have any detailed essay or reading upon this issue that i can read. On a personal level i have been skeptical of concept of Mahdi since i saw it in almost every religion. But all i heard from clergy is that there are too many Sahih Ahadees to doubt this concept. So are there no Ahadith about Mahdi in both Bukhari and Muslim? Also where did you read the statement of Imam Malik about Mahdi?

I have also heard from clergy that even whe Mahdi as comes belief in him being the true Mahdi is not a requisite of Iman or Islam.

Well!!!
It is a Myth amongst Muslims, so many stories and so many legends, so many important events, which was never backed by Quran or any Sahi Hadees, Like you i have asked many scholars, i have debated the issue since i was in college back then, haven't find a single scholar or debator who can give me a valid reference on Mehdi!!!

The thing everyone agrees is, yes there will be a time, when a leader wil be born in muslims, who will lead them to the get their lost glory. We have seen those leaders in past, Sultan Mehmood Ghaznavi, Sultan Salahuddin Ayoubi, Sultan bebris, Sultan Alp-Arsalan and in the recent history Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah... all of them have the signs of Mehdi, one way or other.. and in same manner yes a leader will come, sooner or later... as this is norm of history, every nation get their fair share of Leaders.

The Myth of Mehdi was created by Shias in the early days of Ummayads, the thing which says that the army will emerge from Kharasaan side, with the black flags, i guess if i am not wrong, the power center of Abbasids were in Kharasaan and they had this black flag. Later on, when Abbasids with the help of Shias took over the Khilafa and not only ignored shias but started to prosecute them, then the Shia continued with the myth. You may find lot of things regarding Mehdi in Shia books and in the books of Scholars either had Sunni books but were originally Shia, Tabrani can be quoted a prime example of such things. One example is, ( I have forgotten which book it was, .. the myth said, that the opponent of Imam Mehdi will be from the clan of Abu-Sufyan (RZA)... and his initials wars will be with the followers of that guy... Now that does make things clearer, isn't it...

The Myth of Mehdi was transferred from Shia to Sunni books. When ever you see a hadees mentioning Mehdi, you need to carefully examine the chain of narrators ( it is called Ilm-ur-Rijal). Now most clergy in Islam ( including Dr. Israar Ahmed) believes in Mehdi and their believe is from these traditons we are listening/reading from our childhood. Since having believe on Mehdi does not effects anyone faith in Islam so people who believes in Mehdi and people who do not believe in Mehdi lives happily.

I think i missed something here, Did i quoted some thing from Imam Malik?

[d-tox.ed]

@hanibal

Well!!!
It is a Myth amongst Muslims, so many stories and so many legends, so many important events, which was never backed by Quran or any Sahi Hadees, Like you i have asked many scholars, i have debated the issue since i was in college back then, haven’t find a single scholar or debator who can give me a valid reference on Mehdi!!!

The thing everyone agrees is, yes there will be a time, when a leader wil be born in muslims, who will lead them to the get their lost glory. We have seen those leaders in past, Sultan Mehmood Ghaznavi, Sultan Salahuddin Ayoubi, Sultan bebris, Sultan Alp-Arsalan and in the recent history Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah… all of them have the signs of Mehdi, one way or other.. and in same manner yes a leader will come, sooner or later… as this is norm of history, every nation get their fair share of Leaders.

The Myth of Mehdi was created by Shias in the early days of Ummayads, the thing which says that the army will emerge from Kharasaan side, with the black flags, i guess if i am not wrong, the power center of Abbasids were in Kharasaan and they had this black flag. Later on, when Abbasids with the help of Shias took over the Khilafa and not only ignored shias but started to prosecute them, then the Shia continued with the myth. You may find lot of things regarding Mehdi in Shia books and in the books of Scholars either had Sunni books but were originally Shia, Tabrani can be quoted a prime example of such things. One example is, ( I have forgotten which book it was, .. the myth said, that the opponent of Imam Mehdi will be from the clan of Abu-Sufyan (RZA)… and his initials wars will be with the followers of that guy… Now that does make things clearer, isn’t it…

The Myth of Mehdi was transferred from Shia to Sunni books. When ever you see a hadees mentioning Mehdi, you need to carefully examine the chain of narrators ( it is called Ilm-ur-Rijal). Now most clergy in Islam ( including Dr. Israar Ahmed) believes in Mehdi and their believe is from these traditons we are listening/reading from our childhood. Since having believe on Mehdi does not effects anyone faith in Islam so people who believes in Mehdi and people who do not believe in Mehdi lives happily.

I think i missed something here, Did i quoted some thing from Imam Malik?

I also personally have very limited knowledge about Mahdi (A.S) and probably need to read more.

I googled some Ahadith about this which are as follows:

Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.” (Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

2. There were three Hadiths narrated on the authority of Abu Sa`id Al-Kudri (may Allah be pleased with him). Such Hadiths were reported by Al-Hakim; and some of them were reported by Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Maqah, Imam Ahmad, and others. Of these Hadiths, At-Tirmidhi reported that the Prophet said: “Al-Mahdi is from my Ummah; he will be born and live to rule five or seven or nine years. (If) one goes to him and says: ‘Give me (a charity), he will fill one’s garment with what one needs.’”

3. Abu Dawud also reported a Hadith about Al-Mahdi that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Al-Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead, a prominent nose. He will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.”

4. There is also the Hadith narrated by Thawban (may Allah be pleased with him) in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “If you see the black banners emerging from Khurasan, seek to join their supporters even if creeping, because among them will be caliph Al-Mahdi.” That Hadith was reported by Al-Hakim and Ahmad. But the chains of narration of that hadith were all unauthentic, though some Hadith scholars rendered it sound in general.

Authenticity of Hadiths Pertaining to Al-Mahdi - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

 
And indeed something from Jamaat Ahmadiyya Website:
  

A few prophecies from the Books of Hadith are:

  1. "Verily, God will appoint for this Ummah in the beginning of every century, those who will restore for it its faith." (Abu Da'ood, Kitabul Fitn)
  1. "By the One who owns my soul, it is nigh, of a certainty, that the son of Mary will appear among you. He will be a judge, he will be just; so he will break the cross (refute Christian doctrines with reason and arguments--Commentary on Bukhari by Ainee) and kill the swine (a figurative speech denoting greedy, dirty and annoying person-- an abomination. Killing also is through spiritual means); and he will stop war." (Bukhari, Vol. 1, Babo Nozooli Isa)
  1. "It is just possible that he who lives of you might meet Jesus the son of Mary who is the Mahdi and a just judge. He will break the cross and kill the swine..." (Masnad Ahmad Bin Hanbal, Vol. 2, p. 411)
  1. "The Ummah can never die which has me at one end and the Messiah, son of Mary, at the other." (Ibn Maja, Bab Al-I'atisam Bis-Sunnah)
  1. "There is no Mahdi but Isa." (Ibn Maja, Bab Shiddatuz Zaman)
  1. "When 1,240 years will pass, God will raise Mahdi." (An-Najmus Saqib, Vol. 2, p. 209)
  1. "What will be your condition when the son of Mary will descend among you and he will be your Imam from among yourselves." (Bukhari, Kitabul Anbiya, Bab Nazool Isa)

[The Advent of the Messiah and Mahdi](http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000106.html)

[hanibal]

@d-tox.ed

I also personally have very limited knowledge about Mahdi (A.S) and probably need to read more.

I googled some Ahadith about this which are as follows:

Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.” (Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

2. There were three Hadiths narrated on the authority of Abu Sa`id Al-Kudri (may Allah be pleased with him). Such Hadiths were reported by Al-Hakim; and some of them were reported by Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Maqah, Imam Ahmad, and others. Of these Hadiths, At-Tirmidhi reported that the Prophet said: “Al-Mahdi is from my Ummah; he will be born and live to rule five or seven or nine years. (If) one goes to him and says: ‘Give me (a charity), he will fill one’s garment with what one needs.’”

3. Abu Dawud also reported a Hadith about Al-Mahdi that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Al-Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead, a prominent nose. He will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.”

4. There is also the Hadith narrated by Thawban (may Allah be pleased with him) in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “If you see the black banners emerging from Khurasan, seek to join their supporters even if creeping, because among them will be caliph Al-Mahdi.” That Hadith was reported by Al-Hakim and Ahmad. But the chains of narration of that hadith were all unauthentic, though some Hadith scholars rendered it sound in general.

Authenticity of Hadiths Pertaining to Al-Mahdi - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

 
And indeed something from Jamaat Ahmadiyya Website:
  

A few prophecies from the Books of Hadith are:


  1. "Verily, God will appoint for this Ummah in the beginning of every century, those who will restore for it its faith." (Abu Da'ood, Kitabul Fitn)
  1. "By the One who owns my soul, it is nigh, of a certainty, that the son of Mary will appear among you. He will be a judge, he will be just; so he will break the cross (refute Christian doctrines with reason and arguments--Commentary on Bukhari by Ainee) and kill the swine (a figurative speech denoting greedy, dirty and annoying person-- an abomination. Killing also is through spiritual means); and he will stop war." (Bukhari, Vol. 1, Babo Nozooli Isa)
  1. "It is just possible that he who lives of you might meet Jesus the son of Mary who is the Mahdi and a just judge. He will break the cross and kill the swine..." (Masnad Ahmad Bin Hanbal, Vol. 2, p. 411)
  1. "The Ummah can never die which has me at one end and the Messiah, son of Mary, at the other." (Ibn Maja, Bab Al-I'atisam Bis-Sunnah)
  1. "There is no Mahdi but Isa." (Ibn Maja, Bab Shiddatuz Zaman)
  1. "When 1,240 years will pass, God will raise Mahdi." (An-Najmus Saqib, Vol. 2, p. 209)
  1. "What will be your condition when the son of Mary will descend among you and he will be your Imam from among yourselves." (Bukhari, Kitabul Anbiya, Bab Nazool Isa)


[The Advent of the Messiah and Mahdi](http://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000106.html)

So none of the hadees is from Saheen… that what i was saying!!!

[d-tox.ed]

So none of the hadees is from Saheen... that what i was saying!!!

Yes I agree with you. However you cannot deny the authenticity of these Ahadith as they do no conflict with Quran nor Sahi Ahadith.

Hence rejecting above Ahadith should not be a question.

[hanibal]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

^^ Well the hadith number 4 it self says that it is not authentic, and there grounds to reject other ahadees as well...

and quite a logic you have, i am saying that there is not a single ayat in quran nor a Sahih Hadith which says some thing about the coming of Mehdi, and you are saying that these ahadees are authentic because they not contradicting Quran and Hadees..

. as far as my understanding is, for contradiction: You need to two or more views on same thing, and then one can look for contradiction....

while we are talking about contradictions the funny thing this is
you think that all these ahadees are authenticate yet you ( I mean Ahmadies and Qadyanies) believe in another hadees ( which to me is also fabricated, hence void) which says that Mehdi and Jesus shall be the same person... well isn't it funny...

[Iconoclast]

I think i missed something here, Did i quoted some thing from Imam Malik?

You said that Imam Malik rejected all Hadith about Mahdi, did he reject the Ahadith about Mahdi or did he not find or recorded any Hadith about Mahdi?

Bcoz former means he heard of these Hadith but objected and rejected the concept while later means he may not have heard these Ahadith.

[hanibal]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

^^ I think i said Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim, but I am human and i can be at fault, if i said Imam Malik then it was just a typo, nothing else.

[Nussairee]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

I dunno the context of this discussion but here is some hadiths for u guyz:

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs. (Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207; also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa’id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra) Hadhrat Abdullah bin Masood reports from the Prophet.

Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99) Said Muhammad

Even if only a day remains for Qiyamah to come, yet Allah will surely send a man from my family who will fill this world with such justice and fairness, just as it initially was filled with oppression. (Abu Dawood) Hadhrat Ali

The promised Mahdi will be among my family. God will make the provisions for his emergence within a single night. (Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519) Ali b. Abi Talib

The promised Mahdi will be among my progeny, among the descendants of Fatima. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 207; Ibn Majah, Sahih, Vol. 2, P. 519) Hazrat Umme Salmah wife of Muhammad

The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatima (the Prophet’s daughter). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4086) Muhammad

Al-Mahdi is one of us, the members of the household (Ahlul-Bayt). (Sunan Ibn Majah, Vol. 2, Tradition No. 4085)

Our Mahdi will have a broad forehead and a pointed (prominent) nose. He will fill the earth with justice as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. He will rule for seven years. (Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 2, p. 208; Fusul al-muhimma, p. 275) Abu Sa’id al-Khudari ((I found this one interesting, since Christians have their own 7 year period, which we will get into.))

Al Mahdi will be from my progeny. His forehead will be broad and his nose will be high. He will fill the world with justice and fairness at a time when the world will be filled with oppression. He will rule for seven years. Hadhrat Abu Saeed KhudriAfter the death of a Ruler there will be some dispute between the people. At that time a citizen of Madina will flee (from Madina) and go to Makkah. While in Makkah, certain people will approach him between Hajrul Aswad and Maqaame Ibraheem, and forcefully pledge their allegiance to him.

Thereafter a huge army will proceed from Syria to attack him but when they will be at Baida, which is between Makkah and Madina, they will be swallowed into the ground.

On seeing this, the Abdaals of Shaam as well as large numbers of people from Iraq will come to him and pledge their allegiance to him. Then a person from the Quraish, whose uncle will be from the Bani Kalb tribe will send an army to attack him, only to be overpowered, by the will of Allah. This (defeated) army will be that of the Bani Kalb. Unfortunate indeed is he who does not receive a share from the booty of the Kalb. This person (Imam Mahdi) will distribute the spoils of war after the battle. He will lead the people according to the Sunnat and during his reign Islam will spread throughout the world. He will remain till seven years (since his emergence). He will pass away and the Muslims will perform his Janazah salaat. (Abu Dawood) Hadhrat Umme Salmah

A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: “No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them. (Sahih Muslim)

What will be your reaction when the son of Mary (Jesus) descends and your Imam is from among yourselves? (Sahih Muslim, bab nuzul ‘isa, Vol. 2; Sahih Bukhari, kitab bad’ al-khalq wa nuzul ‘isa, Vol. 4) Abu Hurayra

What would be your situation if the Son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends upon you and your Imam is from among you? (Bukhari, kitabul-Anbiya, Chapter Nuzul Isa bin Maryam)

[hanibal]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

The wording of above ahadiths support my claim that their is not authentic hadees annoncing coming of Imam Mehdi. On top of that, the wording of the Hadith says that it is from Shia sources...

Iqbal says:

khulay jatay haiN israar-e-nihaani
gaya dor-e-hadees-e-ln-tarani
howi jis key khudi pehlay namodaar
wohi Mehdi, wohi aakhir zamani

Hence i rest my case here, everyone have right to believe what they want to believe but It is duty of every human to seek for the truth, blindly-following may lead to gates of hell

l

[Nussairee]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

^
why do the scholars waste so much time on Ilmul Rijal....they shud just ask u coz u can read translation of the sahi hadiths in English and tell tht the words r from the Shia.......classic

[d-tox.ed]

^^ Well the hadith number 4 it self says that it is not authentic, and there grounds to reject other ahadees as well...

and quite a logic you have, i am saying that there is not a single ayat in quran nor a Sahih Hadith which says some thing about the coming of Mehdi, and you are saying that these ahadees are authentic because they not contradicting Quran and Hadees..

. as far as my understanding is, for contradiction: You need to two or more views on same thing, and then one can look for contradiction....

while we are talking about contradictions the funny thing this is you think that all these ahadees are authenticate yet you ( I mean Ahmadies and Qadyanies) believe in another hadees ( which to me is also fabricated, hence void) which says that Mehdi and Jesus shall be the same person... well isn't it funny...

yaar mera matlab wese nahin tha jesa aap samjhe....

I meant to say that If there is a Hadith and even though the source is weak then it does not have to be incorrect hadith. However there is this fundamental rule that if any hadith contradict Quran then it is rejected even its a Sahi Hadith. The concept presented in Ahadith about Mahdi (A.S) is surely not very clear and no doubt many Ulema dont agree with this concept.

They have all the right to accept of reject.

Perhaps more research needs to be carried out on this topic.

[hanibal]

1) yaar mera matlab wese nahin tha jesa aap samjhe....

2)Perhaps more research needs to be carried out on this topic.

1) oh... maiN mazrat khaá hooN, app key baat sahi say samajh nahi saka tha

2) Research is an ongoing process, and it should be carried out... but i guess thats the factor which is missing from Islam and it has been replaced with TAQLEED...

anyway nice talking to you

See you around..

[Ma_Mooli]

Three points hanibal:

1) Research has been going on for years in Islam, despite what you may think, you didnt invent it.

2) Taqleed is only required for fiqhi masail, and not aqeedah.

3) If your're idea of research is to reject ahadith simply because they sound shia-ish, then my friend, that isnt what you call research, that is nonesense.

[hanibal]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

^^ I just gave a hint of taqleed and research and here is one, trying to be as rude as possible, telling me that i have not invented research, now if anyone can tell me that when i made a claim that i have invented research, yes i have always appreciated and advocated for it.. but i guess it is different thing..

you can follow anyone you like, or do what ever u like...

don't worry i am not attacking you.. you are free to believe what ever you want to believe..

[psyah]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

hanibal

Brother according to the experts of hadith sciences …

1. A weak hadith is not a falsehood it never has been false … fabricated hadith have their own classification

2. An authentic hadith also does not mean it is truth, rather it means it is reliable based on a certain criterion.

3. Many sound weak hadith from different sources on the same topic collectively give each other weight and increase the topic to a trustworthy one.

4. For something to be deemed haram, fard, kufr, it requires authenticity (as far as I understand), otherwise weak hadith are enough to hold a trust on for matters pertaining to goodness, disliked things, etc , otherwise we will be rejectors of hadith. Even weak hadith have their purposes.

The Mahdi - is a not the prophecy of other nations. Rather Islam is unique in that it has two people, Mahdi (AS) and Isa (AS).

It makes sense for other nations to have similar prophecies because according to our hadith the Mahdi will affect all nations. And why cannot all the sources be from truth?

Even when it applies to Shi’a versions of Mahdi, there is no proof that Mahdi as a concept is isolated to Shi’a sources. Rather the reverse is happening. You are beginning to fall into the trap of the time that will come when people will begin to doubt the Mahdi.

People are already doing it. He will come when he is least expected according to other traditions. Take it easy … do your obligations in Islam and if he comes embrace him, if not then don’t worry about it, but do one thing for sure … learn about who and what he represents and how you will recognise him and Isa (AS).

[Mr.Popat]

Re: Belief in Mahdi And Ahadith (Split-Ahmediyya Thread)

@psyah

He will come when he is least expected according to other traditions. Take it easy … do your obligations in Islam and if he comes embrace him, if not then don’t worry about it, but do one thing for sure … learn about who and what he represents and how you will recognise him and Isa (AS).

I’m not going to present anything here based on Ahmadi Muslim beliefs.. but if i think like you for some time.. questions such as recognition of Esa AS should not be hard. Since he’ll be coming directly from skies.. it shouldnt be hard to recognize him AS. Now once we recognize Esa AS, it wont be hard to recognize Imam Mahdi because Esa AS will let us know who He is.

Btw, which one will come first?.. if Esa As, then no problem recognizing him and Imam Mahdi..but if Imam Mahdi will come first then it creates problems.

[hanibal]

@psyah

hanibal

Brother according to the experts of hadith sciences …

1. A weak hadith is not a falsehood it never has been false … fabricated hadith have their own classification

2. An authentic hadith also does not mean it is truth, rather it means it is reliable based on a certain criterion.

3. Many sound weak hadith from different sources on the same topic collectively give each other weight and increase the topic to a trustworthy one.

4. For something to be deemed haram, fard, kufr, it requires authenticity (as far as I understand), otherwise weak hadith are enough to hold a trust on for matters pertaining to goodness, disliked things, etc , otherwise we will be rejectors of hadith. Even weak hadith have their purposes.

The Mahdi - is a not the prophecy of other nations. Rather Islam is unique in that it has two people, Mahdi (AS) and Isa (AS).

It makes sense for other nations to have similar prophecies because according to our hadith the Mahdi will affect all nations. And why cannot all the sources be from truth?

Even when it applies to Shi’a versions of Mahdi, there is no proof that Mahdi as a concept is isolated to Shi’a sources. Rather the reverse is happening. You are beginning to fall into the trap of the time that will come when people will begin to doubt the Mahdi.

People are already doing it. He will come when he is least expected according to other traditions. Take it easy … do your obligations in Islam and if he comes embrace him, if not then don’t worry about it, but do one thing for sure … learn about who and what he represents and how you will recognise him and Isa (AS).

W’salam Psyah

Like i said, it is not an obligatory to believe in coming of Mehdi… many leaders have been born in the history, he will be just one of them!!! secondly, these traditions are weak and i don’t think an important belief can be based on a weak tradition. most importantly, Islam is not a religion of tradition, the islamic believes are based on facts rather traditions.

These so-called traditions was back-door of fitns through out the islamic history, many have made a claim to be Mehdi & Essa, millions of innocents have lost their lives and that was because of these tradition which i niether in Quran nor in any Sahi Hadees.

Most interestingly, this tradition exist in almost all the religions in the world, Hindus are waiting for the Kalki Avtar, Jews and looking forward to Anti-Christ and so on.

Muslims, who said to be the followers of the most correct book in the world, the Quran, are also looking forward to some Mehdi, who will come and get them out of misery, for this Iqbal has said

thay tu woh aba tumharay tum kiya ho
hath per hath dharay muntazir-e-FARDA ho.

If muslims practice islam per Quran and Sunnah then they do not need to wait for these kind of Leaders, but yes, if the Muslims have to base their religion on traditions, then they need some excuse of their lazyness, hence, they are waiting for some one to come and lead…

Anyway, this is my view point, u need not to agree with it!!!

[d-tox.ed]

@psyah

hanibal

Brother according to the experts of hadith sciences …

1. A weak hadith is not a falsehood it never has been false … fabricated hadith have their own classification

2. An authentic hadith also does not mean it is truth, rather it means it is reliable based on a certain criterion.

3. Many sound weak hadith from different sources on the same topic collectively give each other weight and increase the topic to a trustworthy one.

4. For something to be deemed haram, fard, kufr, it requires authenticity (as far as I understand), otherwise weak hadith are enough to hold a trust on for matters pertaining to goodness, disliked things, etc , otherwise we will be rejectors of hadith. Even weak hadith have their purposes.

The Mahdi - is a not the prophecy of other nations. Rather Islam is unique in that it has two people, Mahdi (AS) and Isa (AS).

It makes sense for other nations to have similar prophecies because according to our hadith the Mahdi will affect all nations. And why cannot all the sources be from truth?

Even when it applies to Shi’a versions of Mahdi, there is no proof that Mahdi as a concept is isolated to Shi’a sources. Rather the reverse is happening. You are beginning to fall into the trap of the time that will come when people will begin to doubt the Mahdi.

People are already doing it. He will come when he is least expected according to other traditions. Take it easy … do your obligations in Islam and if he comes embrace him, if not then don’t worry about it, but do one thing for sure … learn about who and what he represents and how you will recognise him and Isa (AS).

Good points raised Psyah Bhai,

This fact should also be noted that all major religions of the world are waiting for some promised one to lead. Muslims are waiting for Mahdi, Hindu for Krishna and thinking about this Islam is the final religion and Quran is the final book and Allah I guess wont be sending a Mahdi for each faith. Allah likes unity not division.

[RealityCheck]

@d-tox.ed

Good points raised Psyah Bhai,

This fact should also be noted that all major religions of the world are waiting for some promised one to lead. Muslims are waiting for Mahdi, Hindu for Krishna and thinking about this Islam is the final religion and Quran is the final book and Allah I guess wont be sending a Mahdi for each faith. Allah likes unity not division.

Don't know how this thread started and who is Muslim and who is Ahmadi here. As a Muslim, I believe the followong:

"Allah will bring out from concealment al-Mahdi from my family and just before the day of Judgment; even if only one day were to remain in the life of the world, and he will spread on this earth justice and equity and will eradicate tyranny and oppression. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Vol. 1, P. 99) Said Muhammad."

I have also proved in the past on GS and very strongly beleive that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Saaab was not a Nabi of any kind nor was he a Mahdi or Krishna or Esa (AS), (as he claimed).