I didn’t want to hijack cricketplaya’s thread (which was less on feminists and more on hoors in jannat) so I’m starting a new thread.
I’ve never called myself a feminist because I’m wary of the negative connotations associated with the term. It seems that you immediately get labeled a “feminazi”.
But if you look at some of the more widely accepted definitions of a feminist, it is: “Someone who supports the full social, political, and economic equality of all people. Essentially, it’s a movement that wants to make sure that each person has enough information, and enough access to resources to be able to make choices about their own individual lives.”
So if being a feminist means wanting equality and equal access for all - isn’t that commendable - isn’t that a state of being we should all aspire to? Why then is it bad to be a feminist or is just that the word includes “fem” and the association to women makes it seem exclusionary of men’s rights?
And guys, if you’re not a feminist, does it automatically follow that you’re a male chauvinist? And if male chauvinism is the extreme opposite to being a feminist, is there a middle ground and what is that middle ground?
The middle ground is Islam. Islam gave women rights. Islam gave women right to work. Islam gave women right to marry who she wishes. I can go on but you get the point.
Feminism is an ideology which attacks Islam like those ignorant islamophobes. Too bad our own Muslim sisters get sucked into this ideology.
Why don't they find out what rights Islam has given them? Why depend on some ideology which is responsible for changing the fitrah of women today?
The middle ground is Islam. Islam gave women rights. Islam gave women right to work. Islam gave women right to marry who she wishes. I can go on but you get the point.
Feminism is an ideology which attacks Islam like those ignorant islamophobes. Too bad our own Muslim sisters get sucked into this ideology.
Why don't they find out what rights Islam has given them? Why depend on some ideology which is responsible for changing the fitrah of women today?
"Someone who supports the full social, political, and economic equality of all people. Essentially, it's a movement that wants to make sure that each person has enough information, and enough access to resources to be able to make choices about their own individual lives."
Some of what you’ve said has merit, but I can’t agree with it all.
I’m trying to take the conversation out of just the Muslim context since feminism gets similar negative reactions even in the western world.
**But as for changing the fitrah of women, wasn’t it men who first subjugated women (some of the most paternalistic and mysoginistic societies are countries that hold themselves out as Muslim countries) and denied women the rights they were entitled to in Islam? **
@D_B, all that has been given to women by God. Why the need to promote something other than what God has already sent down?
Feminism says that all women should be able to play the role of a man. Does this not go against the fitrah? It only disintegrates society, leaving behind more divorced women, wrecked household, shattered family structure, kids growing up with single parent, more abuse towards women, and I can go on... it's all infront of you, what good has feminism brought? Nothing but problems.
I'm not generalizing, just saying if you believe Islam is from Allah and feminist "ideas" are in Islam then why bother preaching feminism? Why not learn more about equality, roles and responsibilities of each gender in an Islamic context? Does it hurt because it goes against the western definition of equality? I bet it does. That's the test from Allah.
I'm not generalizing, just saying if you believe Islam is from Allah and feminist "ideas" are in Islam then why bother preaching feminism? Why not learn more about equality, roles and responsibilities of each gender in an Islamic context? Does it hurt because it goes against the western definition of equality? I bet it does. That's the test from Allah.
Because most Muslim societies do not follow basic Islamic teachings of equality.
And because non-Muslims will need more than a Quranic passage to buy into women's rights.
What's sad is that in the Muslim world, a feminist becomes labelled as "Westernized" and heretical simply because she speaks up for herself and other women. Women were speaking up even during the time of the Prophet (PBUH). They did so as concerned members of society and he listened to them. Women today are the same; the rhetoric is just different.
Feminism does not attack Islam. It is an ideology borne out of the same spirit as Islamic teachings of justice.
Because most Muslim societies do not follow basic Islamic teachings of equality.
What's sad is that in the Muslim world, a feminist becomes labelled as "Westernized" and heretical simply because she speaks up for herself and other women. Women were speaking up even during the time of the Prophet (PBUH). They did so as concerned members of society and he listened to them. Women today are the same; the rhetoric is just different.
Feminism does not attack Islam. It is an ideology borne out of the same spirit as Islamic teachings of justice.
**There is no Muslim country in this world, even though they claim to be. **
Even if we accept "Muslim countries", why not speak out within an Islamic context since you just gave an example of women in Prophet(pbuh) times..? Why the need to accept western ideology as a platform to speak about women rights? There exist Muslim women who are doing just that, why not join their ranks? Is it because Islam is becoming hard for us in this society?
If you feel so strongly about non-muslim perceptions, that right there shows how much of an influence feminism(west) has. We're not here to compromise on our religion nor to please the non-muslims. They should be the ones accepting our ideologies, not the other way around.
**There is no Muslim country in this world, even though they claim to be. **
That's why I didn't say "Islamic", but rather Muslim, referring to the people.
[quote[
Even if we accept "Muslim countries", why not speak out within an Islamic context since you just gave an example of women in Prophet(pbuh) times..? Why the need to accept western ideology as a platform to speak about women rights? There exist Muslim women who are doing just that, why not join their ranks? Is it because Islam is becoming hard for us in this society? [/quote]
Who says I don't?
I actually don't find Islam hard at all for us (which society are you referring to)?
[quote]
If you feel so strongly about non-muslim perceptions, that right there shows how much of an influence feminism(west) has. We're not here to compromise on our religion nor to please the non-muslims. They should be the ones accepting our ideologies, not the other way around.
[/QUOTE]
Though Muslims make up a large portion of the human population, they are by no means the whole of it. So if I'm concerned for the rights of women (Muslim and non) I need to be able to articulate those ideas within a Muslim and a non-Muslim context.
Would you be convinced of something based on a Hindu text?
The definition is correct...however some women abuse the concept of being a feminist to suit their own selfish or hateful ideologies. Can't blame people for not wanting to be associated with that type.
@D_B, all that has been given to women by God. Why the need to promote something other than what God has already sent down?
Feminism says that all women should be able to play the role of a man. Does this not go against the fitrah? It only disintegrates society, leaving behind more divorced women, wrecked household, shattered family structure, kids growing up with single parent, more abuse towards women, and I can go on... it's all infront of you, what good has feminism brought? Nothing but problems.
*If you look at the definition, it does not say play the role of a man. It talks about equal access and equal opportunity. Feminism does recognize physiological differences between men and women, but it refuses to be dictated to by patriarchal societal practices and norms. It promotes self-determinsm. *
This is the crux of the issue.
And just like the practitioners of Islam each interpret the faith as individuals and fall somewhere along the spectrum of liberal, fundamental (although in Islam this concept does not exist), similarly, feminism by definition while seeking equality, has individuals who in characterizing themselves as feminists, may be anywhere on the spectrum of radical or moderate feminists.
I'm not generalizing, just saying if you believe Islam is from Allah and feminist "ideas" are in Islam then why bother preaching feminism? Why not learn more about equality, roles and responsibilities of each gender in an Islamic context? Does it hurt because it goes against the western definition of equality? I bet it does. That's the test from Allah.
As Sahar has noted, the discussion cannot be isolated to Islamic context since the social framework we've chosen to live in has framed the discourse in its own terms.
Feminism is purely Islamic. Methinks some of these people would have been the same people throwing stones at the Prophet in his time for speaking out for the rights of women, who at that time were being treated in a ridiculously inhumane way. Which is not that far off from reality for muslim women and nonmuslim women in many parts of the world today.
The idea that no one could come up with a concept similar to Islam or in line with its principles in another time period and in another age with another set of circumstances is ridiculous.
I mean, would you consider the movement of elderly rights in America (elder abuse, nursing home abuse) unIslamic too?
The principles are the same. It's just that there are nonmuslims who realized that giving women rights is a great idea, in a different historic time period. It doesn't make the concept unIslamic.
