*The idea that no one could come up with a concept similar to Islam or in line with its principles in another time period and in another age with another set of circumstances is ridiculous.
*
I mean, would you consider the movement of elderly rights in America (elder abuse, nursing home abuse) unIslamic too?
The principles are the same. It's just that there are nonmuslims who realized that giving women rights is a great idea, in a different historic time period. It doesn't make the concept unIslamic.
Shabash. You call my Islam twisted yet you have no problem ridiculing Islam by saying others other than Allah could of have come up with these ideas. Shabash.
urgh Its always fun to watch women to try to defend feminism as if it was an all encompassing ideology that reflected the views of both genders. Sadly not the case. Feminism was born out of the need to give women the right toproperty, vote and some other stuff. Then the women emancipation movement in the US and later on it followed into Europe.
But the most important aspect of feminism is to remove social hierarchy when it comes to gender relationships. Meaning a woman can be a man a man can be a women. There should be no defined roles to what a woman can or can not do.
Lastly the concept of feminism holds no more ground in the west because women have achieved equity with man in society. In some cases like the UK or Europe they by default have more rights, specifically with divorce, abortion and other such issues.
Lastly the concept of feminism is required only in societies which do not give women equity in life, something Islam has prescribed and is applied in some countries.
It must be noted I use the world equity and not equality. Feminism requires that man and woman be equal in all aspects of life. That is impossible. Equity is possible. Equality is not.
Oh yeah the original definition is a bunch of crap.
I have said it before I think: Equality does not mean similarity.
An apple may be 'equal' by wieght to an orange, but an apple is an apple and orange should be considered as an orange.
Feminism idea as it is promoted wants women to be 'similar' to men.
And even then, this idea of equality is absurd since it is OK to be weak in some ways and be strong other way but trying to push for 'all time' equal in every way and exactly as 2+2 = 4 brings too many complexities and alienations in the society between these two genders.
Men lose in some ways and so should these women be open to concede.
I do not think 'feminism' is such a big problem since majority women still do not buy this screwed up gender equality 'philosophy'.
Feminism, like all other beliefs, lies on a spectrum of beliefs.
There is a certain group of feminists that believes that all hetero-sexual (consensual) sex is rape.
There is another one that believes that it is best for women to attend to the needs of women that are naturally feminine - having kids and nurturing them.
Wherever a woman fights for her rights, it is feminism. So, feminism isn't always equivalent to feminazism.
I am a feminist in my beliefs but I am also a masculinist. A person should be allowed to live their lives WHATEVER way they want to. No society, no religion, no legislature has the right to direct a person's life based on their sex. Society will not break down if we are more accepting to different gender roles, if we are willing to be more flexible to make things work. Society WILL break down if we are too rigid to accept someone else's differences.
Sex and gender are NOT the same things.
P.S. I am also very against reactive feminism; that says, just because society has conditioned men to be this way, or this is how women have been treated, we must take extremely drastic measures (and hate men).
The middle ground is Islam. Islam gave women rights. Islam gave women right to work. Islam gave women right to marry who she wishes. I can go on but you get the point.
Feminism is an ideology which attacks Islam like those ignorant islamophobes. Too bad our own Muslim sisters get sucked into this ideology.
Why don't they find out what rights Islam has given them? Why depend on some ideology which is responsible for changing the fitrah of women today?
Not true. first of all, there are many different types of feminism. google anticolonial feminism. A lot of feminist work today is based on the idea of respecting a woman's identity-whether ethnic, religious, so on and so forth...and letting her be the one to define who and what she is. You go on and on on how islam gives women rights...so you are a feminist? because many a times, these rights are suppressed, creating severe inequalities between men and women. And that is what feminists try to make people aware of.
Not true. first of all, there are many different types of feminism. google anticolonial feminism. A lot of feminist work today is based on the idea of respecting a woman's identity-whether ethnic, religious, so on and so forth...and letting her be the one to define who and what she is. You go on and on on how islam gives women rights...so you are a feminist? because many a times, these rights are suppressed, creating severe inequalities between men and women. And that is what feminists try to make people aware of.
You girls have the wrong definition of equality.
Feminazis should stop talking because the more they talk the more they ridicule Islam.
Feminazis should stop talking because the more they talk the more they ridicule Islam.
not true. I know many proud muslims who are feminists. Many of the them follow hijab, pray and such. Now would you say that they ridicule Islam by advocating for women's education, stop of domestic abuse or equal pay at work?
And what is the right definition of equality?
I write this with some trepidation because I can already picture some of the guys rolling their eyes - but I hope that if even one guy gets what I'm trying to convey it'll be worth it.
It’s almost a given that most of us has had a moment or an experience in our life when we were made to feel like less than others around us or made to feel self-conscious for what we are. A relatable example could be being Muslim post 9/11 (I had a specific experience from the days after 9/11) or being a minority in a western society. It is the experience of being judged or found wanting without the other having actual knowledge of us.
Yes, I live in a country that has laws in place to ensure that I have equal rights as others regardless of my race, religion and gender, but in the same way that civil rights movement has not eradicated racism, guarantees of equal access to economic, social and/or political rights under the law has not eradicated gender-based discrimination.
I know that you cannot legislate people’s attitudes and behavior – but I find it unfortunate that in this day and age, there are moments when I am made to feel like a lesser person because I am a woman – that my opinions are less important or that I am not deserving of the same opportunities as others. I hate the idea that I should need to turn to the legal system to protect those rights. So to me feminism is more than social, political and economic equality of all people – it also includes changing people’s attitudes towards others. Each of us may have to earn respect, but none of us deserve disrespect or baseless suspicion either.
I’m going to have to take Islam out of feminism for a second, because no I don’t want to join the army because, well, I like my polished nails and no I will not walk around topless because I like a well coordinated outfit!
Muslim men and women who lack education may it be through Islam or anything else, will not understand the equality which ALREADY exists within being a Muslim. There is no such things as suppression of women. The suppression which is present in our Muslim societies is only the utter stupidity of men who think their the kings of their house.
So when it comes to the idea of true feminism, I always take Islam out of it, since it’s not our problem its the problem for all other religions and thinking’s. And you have to divide this ideology into, old feminism and new feminism. When this idea was first brought up in the US and Europe, by J.S. Mill it made men and women equal differently. But now days we have completely lost the true gender roles and which role belongs to who!
The suffrage movements all made sense, but it makes no sense to have legal rights to walk around nude
Maybe there is no islamic state, as CP says. But let's first calculate exactly how much rights have these so-called muslim men given to their women as Islam has suggested!
later we can get down to what the non-muslims did or didn't.
"Someone who supports the full social, political, and economic equality of all people. Essentially, it's a movement that wants to make sure that each person has enough information, and enough access to resources to be able to make choices about their own individual lives."
Do I have to call myself a feminist to believe in this paragraph?
As far as I've seen, women who don't have good fathers or brothers become feminists(which is understandable), and some so called feminists are those who can't find good men to marry and blame all the other men for this.
one last thing…please check out http://www.whiteribbon.org.pk/index.php
an example of inspirational men who are men enough to admit that the main concepts “feminism” -such as the end of violence against women-is not bad at all…instead, it is a means by which their daughters, wives, sisters can live in a more secure world. And most of these men are Muslim
Do I have to call myself a feminist to believe in this paragraph?
As far as I've seen, women who don't have good fathers or brothers become feminists(which is understandable), and some so called feminists are those who can't find good men to marry and blame all the other men for this.
There are a lot of "normal well-adjusted" women who have loving fathers and husbands who think,
"Goodness, just because I was so blessed doesn't mean that all women are treated with dignity or have opportunities and the ability to make choices without fear of being held back because they were born a woman. Hmmmm maybe I can advocate on behalf of those women."
You don't need to be a single woman with daddy issues to have a social conscience.
there are idiots on this forum who will inevitably and unfortunately raise ignorant families. inflicting an exernality of idiocy on society at large.
If you think feminism isn't needed then I ask you to venture in the first world pure sciences where 90% of the leaders are men. Where feminine qualities are ridiculed. I will not foresake my sex to placate the white, male, middle class.
I would then ask you to venture into the work place where women in my country are beig paid 16% less for equal work.
The pressure on us to fill fantastical dreams. The hypocrasy, double standards..
The sexism inherent in culture and language structures.
Then I would ask you to send a daughter into this first world. Where you romantically assume that 30 years of screaming for rights outweighs centuries of sexism. Where she will always be a sex object. Unless she is fat. In which case she will be a nothing. Or a dyke.
I am proud that my father was a bigger feminist than my mother. That every single step I take, he has made me believe that there was nothing I could not do, no boundry I could not break. Who instilled a confidence of self in me that I see lacking in our Pakistani females. I am consequentially proud of being a feminist and increasingly ashamed of being a Guppie and in parts, Pakistani.
