Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

[teggy]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

No, you did not imply that. I didn’t mean for it to come across that way, I was just stating a perception that often comes when injustice is done in the name of religion, and more often than not people belonging to that faith are asked to attest how they feel (Not saying that is the case here). Islam requires that muslims stand with the oppressed even if the oppressor is their own blood, and always call for justice and fairness.

About your question, would those laws be contrary to Quran and Sunnah, and would obeying them mean I would be disobeying commandments of Quran? If yes, and they effect my everyday life, then I’d have to make a choice about where I should live. There have been times in history when muslims have migrated to other lands when they were oppressed about practicing their faith; it wouldn’t be a first. People do it even today; sometimes from muslim countries to non-muslim countries. Islam isn’t against migration.

[bella88]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@teggy

I support every Shariah “rule”, so long as it has foundation in Quran and Sunnah, and is endorsed by the majority of scholars to be applicable in relevant situations, and countries. That doesn’t mean that I support anyone being killed for not becoming a muslim, or for leaving Islam because that matter is with Allah alone. For reference we need to look back at early muslims because they were the best of muslims from the best generation. When the early muslims migrated to Abyssinia, one of them became a Christian, and he announced his conversion to Christianity. His wife left him because she could not tolerate being with a non-muslim, but he was left to be and nothing was done to prevent him from being a Christian. He died a natural death as a Christian. That example is good enough for me as evidence to support what I believe, unless I learn something more concrete. Further more, the Quran itself says that “There is no compulsion in religion”.

Now as for Shariah in definition; well it means Commandments of Allah on how to govern our daily lives, and their application as founded in the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Being a muslim, it is compulsory to follow the commands of Allah as best as possible, otherwise how will someone be a muslim? Name/Country/Language do not make someone a muslim, it is actions that define a muslim. Allah knows best what we intend, and where our heart rest in terms of beliefs.

This is just my personal view. A person with more knowledge may be able to shed more light on this. To take a life unjustly is to kill the whole of humanity. Every incident should not require a blanket statement, each circumstance is different and should be observed. That’s what courts do when dispensing justice, and that’s what we must practice when speaking of laws. The accused person is saying that she is a practicing christian and her mother raised her as such, then Government has no business labeling her a muslim; that is total injustice. If the government was fair, it would be a non-issue because a christian woman marries a christian man. It’s a reason to celebrate; not kill one or the other.

And I would like to see dollars grow on trees so that I can quit my day job, and spend that time in arguing why this view is skewed and far from reality. But reality dictates that is very unlikely to happen.

Reality of the matter is what this case has brought forth is laws being applied that have no foundation for application, and every incident like this serves to highlight the ignorance of Muslim Governments and how distant they have become from the teaching of Islam in practice, and in essence. That is my personal view based on the example I quoted above. I would love to see people being realistic when discussing situations of other countries while keeping in mind that you may dislike the application of the law, but to argue that a law should not exist is beyond unfair because firstly, it’s a country with a huge majority believing in the religious scripture which dictates laws (at least on paper anyways), and secondly it’s injustice because to want to impose alien laws on majority that do not believe in them would be unfair and unacceptable by any society. Why not conduct a survey of Sudan and see how Sudanese feel about secular laws? (Wiki: Religion plays an important role in Sudan, with (97%)[SUP][2]](Religion in Sudan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] of the country’s population adhering to Islam.)

I feel the more things like this are discovered, the better because it separates the misguided among muslims, and the strong (and justified) criticism that follows gives muslims an opportunity to introspect and revert to Islamic teachings to learn the truth. Some are guided by what they find in that truth, while others leave the truth altogether. Either way Islam moves on and with it better and more informed muslims.

What if a muslim woman leaves islam and converts to any other religion and marries a christian/non-muslim man, in that case, do you support her killing as per sharia? thats exactly what i have done, so as per sharia i must be killed.
this is why sharia is so dangerous and barbaric. its time muslims unite against such barbaric laws. and then people say “islam isn’t about using force” or islam doesn’t support forced conversion! thats such a lie if sharia calls for death for apostasy. Basically islam FORCES people to stay a muslim? how is that not forced? and then muslims say there is no compulsion in Islam. please explain whos lying here? Is islam about forcing people to stay a muslim or does it allow a muslim to abandon his religion? if the former is truth, then islam is a religion which uses force to maintain its followers and thats quite scary

[amber19]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

No. You cannot impose faith into anyone by fear.

[bella88]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

^thats how it should be. but if a religion allows/supports killing for apostasy or marrying a non-muslim, then im afraid faith is being imposed by force.

[IndiGo_Rain]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@bella88

I don’t know if this news has been shared on GS or not as I have been away for a while. But this story truly makes me very upset as I have done the exact same thing as this woman, marrying non-muslim and no longer practicing islam. makes me wonder what my fate would have been if i lived in a barbaric country as this poor woman is. this innocent woman being killed for simply marrying a non-muslim and for leaving islam.

There is nothing at all simple about marrying a non-Muslim man, nor is the matter of apostasy a simple one. From such a marriage would spring forth children who will not practice Islam because their parents don’t. They, in turn, will teach their ways to their descendants and future generations. Maybe for you it is a non-issue, but there are many people even amongst Muslims who believe that anything which will have a profound impact upon the lives of the next nasal is no simple matter. It certainly isn’t easy, but one has to think about more than just lurrrve.

@bella88

What if a muslim woman leaves islam and converts to any other religion and marries a christian/non-muslim man, in that case, do you support her killing as per sharia? thats exactly what i have done, so as per sharia i must be killed.
this is why sharia is so dangerous and barbaric. its time muslims unite against such barbaric laws. and then people say “islam isn’t about using force” or islam doesn’t support forced conversion! thats such a lie if sharia calls for death for apostasy. Basically islam FORCES people to stay a muslim? how is that not forced? and then muslims say there is no compulsion in Islam. please explain whos lying here? Is islam about forcing people to stay a muslim or does it allow a muslim to abandon his religion? if the former is truth, then islam is a religion which uses force to maintain its followers and thats quite scary

I have not researched the topic in depth, but I’ve learned about various perspectives which are as follows: The apostasy ruling is said to have come about when several Jews who had converted to Islam were reverting back to their faith with the intent to weaken the Muslims and to cause them to question Islam and abandon the faith. So, one opinion is that the penalty for apostasy is not for the singular occurrences. Another opinion is that the penalty is applied to those who have the deliberate agenda to mislead the Muslims. In yet another video, a sheikh explained that it is not for the common folks to declare someone as an apostate and to easily sentence them to death. It is not so simple. There is a procedure in place. The said apostate is first talked to by a panel of judges and scholars who will try to guide him or her. Should the person not come around, the panel then turns the matter over to the ruler of the Islamic country. It has to be the ruler who administers the punishment, it cannot be issued by a person of a lesser authority. In another video, yet another scholar stated that execution is not the standard penalty for apostasy and he supported this view with an example of the Prophet SAWS showing leniency toward an apostate. So, these are the different angles for you to consider, Bella. You made the blanket statement that shariah, on the whole and in its entirety, is dangerous and barbaric based on this one issue. Frankly speaking, I don’t appreciate you trying to rile the Muslims to oppose shariah or to view shariah as an overall evil thing. You had previously asked where the Muslims of GS who seem to support shariah stand on this issue. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the tone behind this question sounds like you’re testing the Muslims. You were not concerned about the shariah or the mass opinion and approval of Muslims when you first decided to marry your non-Muslim husband, so I don’t understand your need to gauge the overall consensus of the GS Muslims about your marriage or this particular type of marriage or apostasy at this point.

[bella88]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@IndiGo_Rain

There is nothing at all simple about marrying a non-Muslim man, nor is the matter of apostasy a simple one. From such a marriage would spring forth children who will not practice Islam because their parents don’t. They, in turn, will teach their ways to their descendants and future generations. Maybe for you it is a non-issue, but there are many people even amongst Muslims who believe that anything which will have a profound impact upon the lives of the next nasal is no simple matter. It certainly isn’t easy, but one has to think about more than just lurrrve.

I have not researched the topic in depth, but I’ve learned about various perspectives which are as follows: The apostasy ruling is said to have come about when several Jews who had converted to Islam were reverting back to their faith with the intent to weaken the Muslims and to cause them to question Islam and abandon the faith. So, one opinion is that the penalty for apostasy is not for the singular occurrences. Another opinion is that the penalty is applied to those who have the deliberate agenda to mislead the Muslims. In yet another video, a sheikh explained that it is not for the common folks to declare someone as an apostate and to easily sentence them to death. It is not so simple. There is a procedure in place. The said apostate is first talked to by a panel of judges and scholars who will try to guide him or her. Should the person not come around, the panel then turns the matter over to the ruler of the Islamic country. It has to be the ruler who administers the punishment, it cannot be issued by a person of a lesser authority. In another video, yet another scholar stated that execution is not the standard penalty for apostasy and he supported this view with an example of the Prophet SAWS showing leniency toward an apostate. So, these are the different angles for you to consider, Bella. You made the blanket statement that shariah, on the whole and in its entirety, is dangerous and barbaric based on this one issue. Frankly speaking, I don’t appreciate you trying to rile the Muslims to oppose shariah or to view shariah as an overall evil thing. You had previously asked where the Muslims of GS who seem to support shariah stand on this issue. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the tone behind this question sounds like you’re testing the Muslims. You were not concerned about the shariah or the mass opinion and approval of Muslims when you first decided to marry your non-Muslim husband, so I don’t understand your need to gauge the overall consensus of the GS Muslims about your marriage or this particular type of marriage or apostasy at this point.

Accepting or leaving islam or ANY religion should be a choice and not forced! would you like it if the muslim reverts/converts were getting persecuted in america or europe for leaving Christianity and accepting islam? if someone is forced to stay muslim and if someone is not allowed to marry a non-muslim, then it shows that islam does force its followers to stay muslim. in that case, all those muslims who claim islam does not have compulsion are lying. so please tell me which one is it? either sharia is not truly islamic or it is? some muslims here seem to disagree with this law yet some people see nothing wrong with it.
secondly, yes im asking certain GS muslims to explain WHY they support such barbaric sharia laws. it does affect me as im in the same position as this innocent woman. i am not ‘testing’ muslims, as i know very well how intolerant people on GS think. i want to know why and how anyone can support killing of a woman for marrying non-musim or for apostasy. yes it pisses me off how intolerant some people can be. this is the problem with muslim world today. unless we change our mindset, nothing will ever change. unless we learn to be tolerant of each other, world will remain a scary place.
I am not saying whether the prophet or islam actually supported killing of apostates or not, but the fact that some muslim countries follow that law is ridiculous. if you agree with that, at least you should be able to condemn this murder rather than criticizing my post.
whether this law is truly islamic or not, the execution of this woman is truly barbaric, do you agree?

[teggy]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@bella88

What if a muslim woman leaves islam and converts to any other religion and marries a christian/non-muslim man, in that case, do you support her killing as per sharia? thats exactly what i have done, so as per sharia i must be killed.
this is why sharia is so dangerous and barbaric. its time muslims unite against such barbaric laws. and then people say “islam isn’t about using force” or islam doesn’t support forced conversion! thats such a lie if sharia calls for death for apostasy. Basically islam FORCES people to stay a muslim? how is that not forced? and then muslims say there is no compulsion in Islam. please explain whos lying here? Is islam about forcing people to stay a muslim or does it allow a muslim to abandon his religion? if the former is truth, then islam is a religion which uses force to maintain its followers and thats quite scary

I have already said I do not support taking the life of anyone for marrying someone out of religion. When a person does something knowing what the religion allows or disallows, then they are in essence becoming directly accountable to Allah. End of story. I don’t have to explain anything, because I’m not on a mission to get you to revert back to Islam; you stopped practicing because you were able to convince yourself and found justification in doing so. I believe there is no compulsion in religion because that’s what Quran says. I will believe what Quran says, and what Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) practiced before I start comparing the two sources of guidance (Quran and Sunnah) to actions of people. Flaws are in the people and their understanding of the religion; the divine religions are not flawed. It has always been that way. And that’s my belief.

And it would be scholarly to look at Meriam’s facts, her statements, and what proceeded after it. You may have done some of what she did, but not exactly. Meriam says she was raised as a Christian by her mother when her father left them at the age of 6. Is that your story too? If it isn’t, then how is it “exactly what you have done”? A Christian female marries a Christian male. Unfortunately for Meriam, Sudan has a law that says Children must follow their father’s religion. So unless you are from Sudan, and escaped there then you are again no way in the exact position as her. It is injustice to her because Sudan is making her a muslim when she is not, thus violating the ayah of Quran that says there is no compulsion in religion. It is wrong to fish for compassion in guise of understanding Shariah’s stand on it because you have little comparison with her geographical location and circumstances.

If I was to guess, and it’s a very far off guess because I don’t know Sudanese laws, maybe not as well as some of the other contributors in this discussion do, but Sudan is enforcing the part of law that requires Children to follow the religion of their father, but calling it Apostasy and either Sudanese Courts are linking it up with Shariah or the reporting agencies have. It would be justice to the topic if you could investigate that. Or not. Just a thought. I guess that’s what her lawyer will argue in the court too.

It’s a poor start of dialogue when you know how intolerant people on GS think, yet to still turn to the same intolerant lot of people in your first post and ask them to share their views. I’m truly sorry you feel that way, but I don’t find any member of Gupshup to be intolerant, there are levels of passion about certain things in life and everyone has a position they defend. Just like you defend your position; by some people’s thought-process that would be very intolerant. It’s just not ideal to label folks if you want to engage in a healthy discussion for the sake of learning.

It’s unfair to call out non-existent people on Gupshup to come defend their barbaric preferences. It’s very one-sided sort of a position that no one could argue against. Either it is Shariah, and which means it is derived from Quran, or it is something else because there is no such thing as an UnIslamic Shariah.

I don’t believe there is a single country in existence right now that could claim itself to be following Islam in spirit, practice, and essence. Some are putting on a sham of democracy and negating their very constitution, while others are playing ping pong between Military Rule and Civilian Rule, while others are altogether Kingdoms who make alliances based on the King’s likings. And that’s why it is futile for me to go further and argue for or against any muslim country.

I hope it suffices that I have made my position on this situation, which is that her death sentence is injustice not because of Islam, but because of Sudan and its’ Government.

PS: Your concern is valid that it makes no sense for one muslim country to have one set of laws for the same crime, while another has a different set of laws. But that’s because each country’s circumstances are different; I’m not justifying whatever wrongs they may be practicing, but that’s just another aspect of it. If all muslim countries had a unanimous law governing all aspects so that anyone going to Muslim Bloc of nations would know what is to be expected; well that is what a Caliphate is. Are you advocating for Caliphate?

[IndiGo_Rain]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@bella88

I am not ‘testing’ muslims, as i know very well how intolerant people on GS think. i

Jab GS k Muslims ka itna hi pata hai, to pooch kyun rahi ho? Is it with the hope that they will respond to your question in the affirmative and thus confirm your general poor opinion of Islam and the Muslims on here? It would be one thing if you were only criticizing this particular ruling, but you find shariah in its entirety barbaric. Based on this one ruling, one which you have not bothered to research thoroughly, you want Muslims to speak out against shariah, to abandon it? What is so tolerant about that, hmm? If it’s lack of tolerance you’re fighting against, then urging people to go against their faith is not indicative of tolerance on your end either.

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

Let’s cut through the hypocrisy here.

There is a broad consensus among sunni islam that the punishment for apostasy is death. They might set conditions about who is qualified to carry it out but death it is. For reference, search for apostasy related threads on these very forums.

I know it might be inconvenient for people to say that while living in liberal democracies of the west but that is the view of sunni ulema, whose consensus is the proper interpretation of Islam as articulated by teggy here and others elsewhere.

[Southie]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

" It’s a poor start of dialogue when you know how intolerant people on GS think, yet to still turn to the same intolerant lot of people in your first post and ask them to share their that way, but I don’t find any member of Gupshup to be intolerant, there are levels of passion about certain things in life and everyone has a position they defend. Just like you defend your position; by some people’s thought-process that would be very intolerant. It’s just not ideal to label folks if you want to engage in a healthy discussion for the sake of learning.*"

Couldn’t disagree more with this. Classic case of false equivalency.

To say NOONE on GS is intolerant and that everyone has a position to defend is being naive. Bella has clearly defined what she considers intolerant. Putting to death someone who commits apostasy. Now u are not for that. Good for you. But some in GS are. You simply cannot deny that. And it is perfectly OK to call them intolerant. High time to remove the false notion that all positions are equally defensible.

Reality of sharia law as it is practiced in some places is people do get put to death. One does a huge disservice to truth and justice by not recognizing such laws exxist. And that some here support such laws.

And it is perfectly ok for bella to challenge those folks to defend their indefensible position. In fact all reasonable people should.

[teggy]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@Southie

" It’s a poor start of dialogue when you know how intolerant people on GS think, yet to still turn to the same intolerant lot of people in your first post and ask them to share their that way, but I don’t find any member of Gupshup to be intolerant, there are levels of passion about certain things in life and everyone has a position they defend. Just like you defend your position; by some people’s thought-process that would be very intolerant. It’s just not ideal to label folks if you want to engage in a healthy discussion for the sake of learning.*"

Couldn’t disagree more with this. Classic case of false equivalency.

To say NOONE on GS is intolerant and that everyone has a position to defend is being naive. Bella has clearly defined what she considers intolerant. Putting to death someone who commits apostasy. Now u are not for that. Good for you. But some in GS are. You simply cannot deny that. And it is perfectly OK to call them intolerant. High time to remove the false notion that all positions are equally defensible.

Reality of sharia law as it is practiced in some places is people do get put to death. One does a huge disservice to truth and justice by not recognizing such laws exxist. And that some here support such laws.

And it is perfectly ok for bella to challenge those folks to defend their indefensible position. In fact all reasonable people should.

Challenge others all you like, but keep it on an equal footing. The use of words like Barbaric and Intolerant swing on both ends of the spectrum. You see the other end as being both and they may see your (in general; not you specifically) position to be barbaric and intolerant. There is no win. It’s just better to adopt middle ground, and begin from there, at the end of it all everyone will have their beliefs that they defend so long as it’s done with mutual respect.

[Southie]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

At post 28. Bella didn’t call all GS folks intolerant. She called those who support such apostasy laws intolerant. Not sure what the fuss is about her using the word intolerant.

And if sharia as implemented calls for the death of a person committing apostasy, note sure why there would be any objection to calling such laws barbaric.

[Southie]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@teggy

Challenge others all you like, but keep it on an equal footing. The use of words like Barbaric and Intolerant swing on both ends of the spectrum. You see the other end as being both and they may see your (in general; not you specifically) position to be barbaric and intolerant. There is no win. It’s just better to adopt middle ground, and begin from there, at the end of it all everyone will have their beliefs that they defend so long as it’s done with mutual respect.

strongly disagree. The word intolerant was used ONLY against those who would support this death sentence. I am sorry. I have no hesitation using such a word wrt such folks.

The word barbaric was used ONLY wrt a law , which per your assertion, was incorrectly implemented. I am nor sure what word one should use against such an unjust law. I am nor speaking abt Islam or Quran. I am speaking about this specific law that calls for a death sentence for apostasy. I would all decent people to call THIS SPECIFIC version of the law barbaric.

I don’t see how speaking the much needed truth on this issue implies lack of respect. And in issues of life and death, there is no middle ground. All of us should be on.ONE side. I makes me sad when I read calls for moderation on such issues.

[teggy]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@Southie

At post 28. Bella didn’t call all GS folks intolerant. She called those who support such apostasy laws intolerant. Not sure what the fuss is about her using the word intolerant.

And if sharia as implemented calls for the death of a person committing apostasy, note sure why there would be any objection to calling such laws barbaric.

Look, it’s real simple. You know my position, and I’m not going to repeat. I know you aren’t asking me to. But it is possible for different people to have different values, and each has their reasons for it. That’s not even the issue. We keep going back and forth because you want everyone, absolutely everyone to come out and conform which is not possible; not even in a homogenous set up where people superficially believe the same things but still differ on their views on certain matters.

On this specific instance, sure ask everyone to share their views. But to start with “you intolerant people; especially you all come and say how you feel”. How is that a start to something that is hoped to be fruitful in the form of a discussion?

To issue a blanket statement on the whole of Shariah is not possible, because as mentioned earlier it’s only Shariah if it is from the Quran and Sunnah, if it’s not from there then it’s something else. Just because XYZ Government calls it that doesn’t make it so. “Children must follow the religion of their father” is a clause that is purely Sudanese, and I have not come across any references that make this an Islamic requirement by any means because so many people that become muslim have non-muslim fathers. Critique Sudan for THAT law and why it’s being applied to Meriam, but don’t associate that law and bundle it as Shariah, it is not Shariah as far as I know, unless someone who knows otherwise can correct me.

I’ll say no more because OP got her response in what she quoted me for. And I have already presented how I feel towards whatever has been discussed so far. I fear the slippery slope may keep going and turn this into dissection of Shariah from some of us who are not even equipped to perfect our dealings with people, let alone start to pose as experts in divine wisdoms and knowledge.

PS: Why the numbers and shrtnd words in the posts? Mobile device acting funny?

[IndiGo_Rain]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@Southie

At post 28. Bella didn’t call all GS folks intolerant. She called those who support such apostasy laws intolerant. Not sure what the fuss is about her using the word intolerant.

And if sharia as implemented calls for the death of a person committing apostasy, note sure why there would be any objection to calling such laws barbaric.

She could have streamlined her focus upon this particular ruling. It wasn’t necessary for her to issue a blanket statement that shariah in its entirety is barbaric. But she did so and that is disrespect toward the sentiments and beliefs of Muslims. No one appreciates their faith being called barbaric; no one, Southie, no one, so play fair. Teggy asked a valid question, one that I also had asked earlier but in a different way. If she already finds the people on GS intolerant, then heck why is asking their opinion? What was she hoping that we’d provider her with, a validation of her decisions in life?

[Southie]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@teggy

Look, it’s real simple. You know my position, and I’m not going to repeat. I know you aren’t asking me to. But it is possible for different people to have different values, and each has their reasons for it. That’s not even the issue. We keep going back and forth because you want everyone, absolutely everyone to come out and conform which is not possible; not even in a homogenous set up where people superficially believe the same things but still differ on their views on certain matters.

On this specific instance, sure ask everyone to share their views. But to start with “you intolerant people; especially you all come and say how you feel”. How is that a start to something that is hoped to be fruitful in the form of a discussion?

To issue a blanket statement on the whole of Shariah is not possible, because as mentioned earlier it’s only Shariah if it is from the Quran and Sunnah, if it’s not from there then it’s something else. Just because XYZ Government calls it that doesn’t make it so. “Children must follow the religion of their father” is a clause that is purely Sudanese, and I have not come across any references that make this an Islamic requirement by any means because so many people that become muslim have non-muslim fathers. Critique Sudan for THAT law and why it’s being applied to Meriam, but don’t associate that law and bundle it as Shariah, it is not Shariah as far as I know, unless someone who knows otherwise can correct me.

I’ll say no more because OP got her response in what she quoted me for. And I have already presented how I feel towards whatever has been discussed so far. I fear the slippery slope may keep going and turn this into dissection of Shariah from some of us who are not even equipped to perfect our dealings with people, let alone start to pose as experts in divine wisdoms and knowledge.

PS: Why the numbers and shrtnd words in the posts? Mobile device acting funny?

Am poor typist with smartphone. Typed in hurry and did not check!

Bella only called out those who are in support of this death for apostasy law. What you gloss over is this is personal for her. She is in this situation. I would actually expect you to agree with her on this. You can maintain ur position that sharia law as prescribed by the Qur’an is fair. And that this law is barbaric.

One aspect I differ from you - you want to treat intolerance with moderation. I dont. You ask one person’s intolerance is a others faith. I have an easy litmus test - when a person’s faith interferes with another person’s human rights, as in this case, always go with human rights. No ifs ands or buts.

[Southie]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

@IndiGo_Rain

She could have streamlined her focus upon this particular ruling. It wasn’t necessary for her to issue a blanket statement that shariah in its entirety is barbaric. But she did so and that is disrespect toward the sentiments and beliefs of Muslims. No one appreciates their faith being called barbaric; no one, Southie, no one, so play fair. Teggy asked a valid question, one that I also had asked earlier but in a different way. If she already finds the people on GS intolerant, then heck why is asking their opinion? What was she hoping that we’d provider her with, a validation of her decisions in life?

You did it again. You stated she finds the people on GS intolerant. The fields time you did it I will attribute it to an oversight. Now I conclude you are being disingenuous or worse.

again she is calling any lol law that supports putting people to death for apostasy barbaric. What is your position.

It is no one’s business who bella married. You have absolutely no right to put her on trial.

Calling out OBVIOUSLY unjust aspects of people’s INTERPRETATION of their faith is NOT an attack on their faith. That you would think so is not bellas responsibility. I fully back her on her stand. I would also add she is one of the most decent persons I have come across in this forum.

[IndiGo_Rain]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

She has not only called one specific law barbaric but the whole of shariah barbaric. Go back and reread, Southie. I had highlighted that bit. Apart from myself, Teggy also noted it and for some reason you cannot admit that it was an unnecessary and tactless comment from the OP. She has connected the news story to her own marriage, so it’s not an irrelevant matter. I have not passed judgment on her marriage, I have not placed her on trial, and I certainly haven’t issued her a penalty or sentence for this life nor the next, so I’m not sure why you are becoming so emotional about it. Op has said that there are some GS Muslims whose opinion she is keen on knowing. Um, who are these select Muslims? She also said that she knows all too well the intolerant people on GS. Okay, so by any chance does this intolerant group on GS consist of the same, select unnamed Muslims? If so, why does she want their opinion? Same question was posed by Teggy.

Now, OP had said that Islam does force people despite the Quran saying that there is no compulsion in religion. I’m gonna play the devil’s advocate here in trying to understand why Bella is seeking the opinion of certain select Muslims on GS. Is she hoping that if these Muslims were to agree with her that the shariah apostasy ruling is barbaric, then she in turn could use their agreement as their indirect admission that Islam does impose upon people despite the reference that there’s no compulsion in deen, and as a result lead them to doubt the religion overall? Victory for Bella? Or maybe their agreement would provide her with a confirmation or validation for her own overall disapproval of Islam. Maybe I am thinking too much and she has no such intentions. But again, if these select Muslims are also part of the intolerant group, then what does she hope to gain from their opinion? I don’t get it what the purpose is. Is it to prove wrong the members who usually agree with shariah, to make them feel doubts about it? A situation should be thoroughly examined along with the conditions behind a religious ruling. If any shariah law is taken out of context or manipulated to justify an injustice or incorrectly interpreted and acted upon, it’s wrong to use that to make an overall or blanket judgment about Islam, whether voiced or otherwise.

[Southie]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

Just saw about an hour and half ago about Karachi attack. Had no idea. Out of respect, am out of this thread. Too depressing.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam

She’s trying to flame, like most people who convert out of Islam. Sorry, bella, but if you want to convert out of Islam, that’s your choice, and Islam doesn’t entitle anyone to put a death penalty on you or anyone else. Local laws in muslim countries, even if called “sharia”, do not necessarily correspond to Islamic values.

Being a Pakistani, if you are one, you should know that. Pakistan has a gazillion rules that are supposedly Islamic, heck even the country is CALLED Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Doesn’t mean it’s really and truly Islamic, as we can see all kinds of illegal/immoral / unIslamic activity going on there, even in the name of Islam.

People need to distinguish what’s really Islam, and what’s being passed off as Islam with a brand name of “sharia” stamped on it.