I don’t know if this news has been shared on GS or not as I have been away for a while. But this story truly makes me very upset as I have done the exact same thing as this woman, marrying non-muslim and no longer practicing islam. makes me wonder what my fate would have been if i lived in a barbaric country as this poor woman is. this innocent woman being killed for simply marrying a non-muslim and for leaving islam.
Is this justified in sharia or is this not a correct interpretation of sharia? would really like to know from you guys who always seem to support every sharia rule.
Sudanese Woman Appeals ‘Apostasy’ Death Sentence - ABC News
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A Sudanese woman sentenced to death for refusing to recant her Christian faith after allegedly converting from Islam has appealed the sentence, her lawyer said.* Ibrahim married a Christian man from southern Sudan in a church ceremony in 2011. As in many Muslim nations, Muslim women in Sudan are prohibited from marrying non-Muslims, though Muslim men can marry outside their faith.
if this news was already posted here before, mods please feel free to post the link or move my post.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
No one should be killed. It’s not our place to judge. The woman in question said she was raised Christian by her mother when her father wasn’t there. So she is practicing what she learnt. How can she be faulted for that? Keeping someone as part of any religion that they don’t want to be can’t be a good thing, can it? They’ll just feel resentment inside and no one will know their real thoughts. Their actions will be inspired by mechanistic force and fear of law rather than real love of their religion. They’ll just harbour hidden negative feelings. They won’t appreciate good like they should. Isn’t it better to be open with them and win them over with love.
BBC asia radio had a discussion on this topic and most callers condemned it but did say they would disown their children. This cut across religions and cultures. BBC Asian Network - Nihal, 02/06/2014 Bella, you might find it interesting. It’ll be around for another 2 days.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
I will never understand how taking a life because one chooses to stop practicing whatever religion they follow and how does that make the person taking the life of another any closer to God.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
yaar govt tou jahil hai hee, loug kyun itne jaahil hain. Its like you crossing the road, while an 18 wheeler heading your way and driver is not stopping. Yes you have every single right to cross the road, but its your life also. Be careful.
Same situation here. Yes you have right to marry whomever you want, but if govt is run by jerks, then you better be careful. your first obligation is your safety, not the exercise of your rights.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
Every such incident is a nail in the coffin of religion based laws. No ifs ands or buts. Sometimes there are no two sides that are equivalent. One side is the only side that is correct. A truly secular government is the ONLY government that makes sense.
I would like to see senior posters such as above come out STRONGLY against religion based laws and FOR secular government. Enough is enough.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
thank you!
so, anyone with 999 posts is not wise enough to come out and condemn this practice? one additional post [999+1 = 1000 posts] does miracle…lo and behold, all of a sudden, he/she becomes a wise man/woman!
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
Mods pe itni bari zimedari .
I can understand what your’re saying. Oppressive laws which cause injury/harm to others for personal choices such as death penalty/imprisonment should be done away with regardless of origin.It’s going to take time and the process will be slow depending on society. It should happen though.
My friends say Pakistan pre 70s was as liberal if not more than India. Hippies used to come from Turkey, Iran to Pakistan than India. Even India has blasphemy laws like Pakistan but the Pakistani laws were made harsher in the 70s with opportunity for death penalty. There is enough social stigma against “undesired” behaviour. I don’t see why laws should play with people’s lives. Death penalty is a big thing and irreversible. I’d say secular laws in the West are probably best as everyone feels protected and no one feels hey are not protected by the gov.
PS. I see what you did there when you mention nervous 90s :PI’m only a junior member. Mujhe run out nahi hona before century. Don’t want to do a hit wicket.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
I support every Shariah “rule”, so long as it has foundation in Quran and Sunnah, and is endorsed by the majority of scholars to be applicable in relevant situations, and countries. That doesn’t mean that I support anyone being killed for not becoming a muslim, or for leaving Islam because that matter is with Allah alone. For reference we need to look back at early muslims because they were the best of muslims from the best generation. When the early muslims migrated to Abyssinia, one of them became a Christian, and he announced his conversion to Christianity. His wife left him because she could not tolerate being with a non-muslim, but he was left to be and nothing was done to prevent him from being a Christian. He died a natural death as a Christian. That example is good enough for me as evidence to support what I believe, unless I learn something more concrete. Further more, the Quran itself says that “There is no compulsion in religion”.
Now as for Shariah in definition; well it means Commandments of Allah on how to govern our daily lives, and their application as founded in the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Being a muslim, it is compulsory to follow the commands of Allah as best as possible, otherwise how will someone be a muslim? Name/Country/Language do not make someone a muslim, it is actions that define a muslim. Allah knows best what we intend, and where our heart rest in terms of beliefs.
This is just my personal view. A person with more knowledge may be able to shed more light on this. To take a life unjustly is to kill the whole of humanity. Every incident should not require a blanket statement, each circumstance is different and should be observed. That’s what courts do when dispensing justice, and that’s what we must practice when speaking of laws. The accused person is saying that she is a practicing christian and her mother raised her as such, then Government has no business labeling her a muslim; that is total injustice. If the government was fair, it would be a non-issue because a christian woman marries a christian man. It’s a reason to celebrate; not kill one or the other.
And I would like to see dollars grow on trees so that I can quit my day job, and spend that time in arguing why this view is skewed and far from reality. But reality dictates that is very unlikely to happen.
Reality of the matter is what this case has brought forth is laws being applied that have no foundation for application, and every incident like this serves to highlight the ignorance of Muslim Governments and how distant they have become from the teaching of Islam in practice, and in essence. That is my personal view based on the example I quoted above. I would love to see people being realistic when discussing situations of other countries while keeping in mind that you may dislike the application of the law, but to argue that a law should not exist is beyond unfair because firstly, it’s a country with a huge majority believing in the religious scripture which dictates laws (at least on paper anyways), and secondly it’s injustice because to want to impose alien laws on majority that do not believe in them would be unfair and unacceptable by any society. Why not conduct a survey of Sudan and see how Sudanese feel about secular laws? (Wiki: Religion plays an important role in Sudan, with (97%)[SUP][2]](Religion in Sudan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] of the country’s population adhering to Islam.)
I feel the more things like this are discovered, the better because it separates the misguided among muslims, and the strong (and justified) criticism that follows gives muslims an opportunity to introspect and revert to Islamic teachings to learn the truth. Some are guided by what they find in that truth, while others leave the truth altogether. Either way Islam moves on and with it better and more informed muslims.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
How about the political aspect of it; that the Sudanese Government may be imposing this punishment to gain favor with some extreme elements within the country?
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
what elements? sudanese government itself is by far the deadliest extremist element within the country. president al basheer has officially been issued arrest warrants at least thrice by the ICC for genocide and war crimes.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
Will try my best to remember all the points and respond. Don’t know how to insert text within quoted post.
The overarching theme in your response is all of this is your personal view. And that is fine. The other theme is the majority should be able to decide what type of govt they want.
The other is if you don’t follow Islamic laws how can you be a good muslim.
Well, religion is personal. It is not the government’s business to dictate how you follow your religion. There is no place in this world for a Hindu Law based govt Islamic laws based govt or any other religion law based govt.
To always go to the fall back position that Islamic law was not applied properly is simply not good enough. It is not about what true Islam (or Hinduism etc) is all about. It is up to FACING the reality that Islam or any religion has multiple interpretations. The religious forum here is a good example. Folks cannot even agree upon who a muslim is. With that as the REALITY, taking the approach of sticking ones head in the sand and repeating the mantra that “insert your religion” law was not followed properly is not constructive or wise.
As for govt should have recognized this as a christian with Christian marriage is skirting the real issue. What if her mother had not raised her as a christian? Bottom line, get the government out of people’s lives. And let me add here, the government has no business dictating who can call themselves Hindus Muslims Christians etc. If a person states I am a Hindu he is a Hindu. If he states I am a Muslim he is a Muslim.
Yes if dollar would grow on trees I could argue this point ad infinidum
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
I feel that government was/is forcing Islam on her because Meriam Yehya Ibrahim has said that she was raised as a Christian by her mother; her father left them at her age of 6. It then becomes a complete non-issue no matter how you look at it. It’s injustice to Meriam, and she should be freed and not only that but offered something for the wrong decision the government took to imprison her in the first place.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
Janab,
Zara ghaur se padhiyega humara clarification. Humne sabko nimantran dee hai. Waise nervous 90s kahi thee humne. Nervous 900s nahin. Lagtha hai Canadian dollar kaafi devalue ho gayi hai? Tauba.
Ab rahi baath Beshakh ki, Hindi mein k nahin kh. Aisa humein lagta hai. Hum verify kar lete hai baad mein.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
I appreciate that you see my point. I see yours too.
Here’s the thing though, in a Muslim nation it IS the government’s job to have laws according to Quran and Sunnah, or the people would not accept the government; Fact. In order for me to explain why this is, I would have to briefly go into what Pharoah claimed when Moses (a.s.) went to him. His claim was that his is the kingdom and authority to pass laws that he saw fit. A muslim would see such declaration as an act of Disbelief/Kufr, and you can bet that leader/government will be voted out or protested out of the office.
I can understand why you’re saying what you are saying, and that is fine. But what I’m saying is that from a muslim perspective, it is okay and totally acceptable for the government to have Islamic laws if the majority of the citizens are muslim. I’ll just conclude at that, and not entertain going in circles because you have your views, and I have mine.
ps: Please don’t mistake for someone’s strong belief in their faith to mean they are for injustice; both are totally different issues. I condemn what Meriam has had to endure, but I do adhere to Islam and would respect a muslim country to have Islamic laws just like I respect and follow the secular laws of where I live. We can’t fight for individual freedom, and then shoot that freedom down when a vast majority, in case of Sudan that being 97% believe that their lives need to be governed according to Islam because that’s what being muslim is. Islam is in practice, not in name or lip service.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
Had not seen post 16 in my earlier response. But I had covered that part. To reiterate:
Even if the govt had not forced Islam on her. And even if she was not raised as a Christian but as a Muslim, the government still has no business in finding her guilty of any crime.
Clearly, the Sharia law as written in Sudan allows the govt to find her guilty. The point that this law is not Islamic becomes moot. For tomorrow another govt elsewhere will have its own interpretation of Islamic law.
When incident after incident reveals the impossibility of fairly interpreting and applying such laws, the solution should be clear as crystal. While this is also my personal opinion, this is the only rational path forward.
Re: Being killed for marrying a christian man and leaving Islam
Just saw post 18.
First, I don’t know why you would write that sentence about my concluding religious Muslims are for injustice. If there was anything I wrote that even remotely implied that, then shame on me.
The example of the Pharoah is an extreme one. As the king, he was able to make his own just or unjust laws. So for that time, Islamic laws made sense. It was probably a huge improvement.
But today, with spread of democracy, we should be vigilant against dictatorships.or the modern day Pharaohs. Absent such dictatorships, democratically elected govt can form their laws based on their constitution.
The link you provided simply stated 97 pct are muslims. It didn’t state they prefer Islamic laws. (Maybe they do but link doesn’t state that).
A philosophical and rhetorical question. How would Muslims in the west feel if they are forced to obey Christian laws. Which run counter to their Islamic beliefs?
