With all due respect to our Arab brothers, why do they think that because they know Arabic, thus automatically they know Quran better than every other non-Arabic Muslim hence they are a better Muslim than them. I am not being racist or accusing them, in fact I think they are being racist in their thought process.
Today I was at the Friday prayers and sheikh was an Arab and telling us that how Quran’s translations in different languages are not done right and when non-Arabic speaking Muslims read those translations, they get wrong meanings and deviating from real Islam.
I was like what? First of all, our desi ullemas are mashallah fluent in Arabic and many speak much better Arabic than Arab people and we learn our Quran from them, not through translations of Mr. John Smith and then dude, you being an Arab does not make you an authority on Quran, anyway. In fact without being biased, I can tell you that in last 75-100 years, the amount of work that has been done in Indo-Pak for Islam (research, taleem, tableegh), not even 50% of that was done in Arab world.
Being born as Arab does not make you better in Taqwa than a Chinese Muslim and Taqwa is the only difference between a better and a worst Muslim.
With all due respect to our Arab brothers, why do they think that because they know Arabic, thus automatically they know Quran better than every other non-Arabic Muslim hence they are a better Muslim than them. I am not being racist or accusing them, in fact I think they are being racist in their thought process.
Today I was at the Friday prayers and sheikh was an Arab and telling us that how Quran’s translations in different languages are not done right and when non-Arabic speaking Muslims read those translations, they get wrong meanings and deviating from real Islam.
I was like what? First of all, our desi ullemas are mashallah fluent in Arabic and many speak much better Arabic than Arab people and we learn our Quran from them, not through translations of Mr. John Smith and then dude, you being an Arab does not make you an authority on Quran, anyway. In fact without being biased, I can tell you that in last 75-100 years, the amount of work that has been done in Indo-Pak for Islam (research, taleem, tableegh), not even 50% of that was done in Arab world.
Being born as Arab does not make you better in Taqwa than a Chinese Muslim and Taqwa is the only difference between a better and a worst Muslim.
He's quite right, actually .....the non bolded part is just your thoughts and assumptions or did he also say anything against the works of non-arab muslim scholars?
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
Most detailed work in terms of translations and tafseers is being done in Indo-Pak regions currently. Our Ulemas are not just trained in Arabic as a language but as in a Qur'anic language. Just because you speak Arabic doesn't mean you understand the message of the Qur'an. You need to be educated for that specifically.
He's quite right, actually .....the non bolded part is just your thoughts and assumptions or did he also say anything against the works of non-arab muslim scholars?
The bolded part is what he said.. He was more sepcific towards the english traslations of Quran and saying that english translation of Quran is the conspiracy of Yahood o Nasara (please, give me a break)
I strongly disagree. Just because English is not a comprehensive language like Arabic does not allow Arab people to come and start pointing fingers towards the translations. And people who want to understand Quran, dont do it through translations anyway, they go for Tafseer.
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
ulti ulti topics pe thread khol k debate shuru karni which has NO conclusion, and to which the Ulama have said that something which has no real Conclusion that can be held as referance at the end of a discussion / debate is mere fazool talk just for teh sake of argument .. just to stir things up ..i think is more deviating
unless someone can tell me a real Conclusion, and with that conclusion i went to a High status Mufti and he Accept it as evidence / referance ..
its not likely that i will read a concluion at the end of this thread but you guys can try
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
dude, you start a thread and then reach a conclusion, not the other way around. Just because you are dissing this topic does not mean that its not worthy of discussion.
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
Well I think it is a good topic and one that has obvious limits.
In fact if think in terms of those limits then we could arrive at a conclusion.
1) No language can be translated completely
2) The Qur'an in particular is a revealed scripture and cannot be fully understood even by native Arabic speakers. They will but acquire an understanding from it.
3) It is therefore not always appropriate to diss translations on the basis of ones own knowledge of Arabic, even if one is an Arab.
4) To diss a translation a basis needs to be made for what qualifies as correct or not correct and agreement obtained from the scholars on that basis, prior to that no translation should be sanctioned nor dissed. If no agreement then at least classification needs to be present.
5) One can only be a translator if he/she is a master in at least two languages.
6) A special place is present for those who know Arabic and have it as a mother tongue
7) Likewise a particular reward is for those who try to understand Qur'an, be it by tafsir or tahfim.
Arabic has four different words for camel, over a hundred for lion and one can write an essay on the word -Al- ... it is a rich language and by knowing more of it one can understand the Qur'an from many angles. The important thing to do able to do is put it in ones actions for the result of promoting harmony through that implementation.
Quite interesting topic. It is a fact that no language can be translated perfectly. Let me prove it.
In my initial classes for arabic language we were given a sentence in Urdu, and were asked to make word to word translation provided it should become a meaningful sentence in english.
It was like this:
AISAI WAISAI KAISAI KAISAI HOGAYAI
KAISAI KAISAI AISAI WAISAI HOGAYAI
so we cannot expect a meaningful sentence when we translate it in english. some one jokingly said...
THIS THAT HOW HOW BECAME
HOW HOW THIS THAT BECAME
So my beloved brothers and sisters when it is not possible for us to translate the words composed by human beings how can we perfectly translate the Quran which was composed by Allah(SAT). Every language has its own identity. Arabic is the most superior of Allah the languages, it is the language of Jannah, language of Allah(SAT), it is the language in which Allah interacted with his Prophets and Messengers, it is the language of Quraan. Dont take me wrong even i myself didnt complete the job of learning arabic. Usually when we dont understand something we go for translation or tafseer and then again when a doubt arises we go for comparing different translators. so i feel it is a difficult job, it would be best if we learn arabic and understand quraan while reciting , would be better if we understand it with traslation, good if we only recite Quraan. Anyways Inshallah Allah will reward us.
Quite interesting topic. It is a fact that no language can be translated perfectly. Let me prove it.
In my initial classes for arabic language we were given a sentence in Urdu, and were asked to make word to word translation provided it should become a meaningful sentence in english.
It was like this:
AISAI WAISAI KAISAI KAISAI HOGAYAI
KAISAI KAISAI AISAI WAISAI HOGAYAI
so we cannot expect a meaningful sentence when we translate it in english. some one jokingly said...
THIS THAT HOW HOW BECAME
HOW HOW THIS THAT BECAME
So my beloved brothers and sisters when it is not possible for us to translate the words composed by human beings how can we perfectly translate the Quran which was composed by Allah(SAT). Every language has its own identity. Arabic is the most superior of Allah the languages, it is the language of Jannah, language of Allah(SAT), it is the language in which Allah interacted with his Prophets and Messengers, it is the language of Quraan. Dont take me wrong even i myself didnt complete the job of learning arabic. Usually when we dont understand something we go for translation or tafseer and then again when a doubt arises we go for comparing different translators. so i feel it is a difficult job, it would be best if we learn arabic and understand quraan while reciting , would be better if we understand it with traslation, good if we only recite Quraan. Anyways Inshallah Allah will reward us.
Beautiful explanation.....exact translation is not possible that is why most scholars recommend that Muslims should also learn to speak Arabic and it makes sense to me.
Quite interesting topic. It is a fact that no language can be translated perfectly. Let me prove it.
In my initial classes for arabic language we were given a sentence in Urdu, and were asked to make word to word translation provided it should become a meaningful sentence in english.
It was like this:
AISAI WAISAI KAISAI KAISAI HOGAYAI
KAISAI KAISAI AISAI WAISAI HOGAYAI
so we cannot expect a meaningful sentence when we translate it in english. some one jokingly said...
THIS THAT HOW HOW BECAME
HOW HOW THIS THAT BECAME
So my beloved brothers and sisters when it is not possible for us to translate the words composed by human beings how can we perfectly translate the Quran which was composed by Allah(SAT). Every language has its own identity. Arabic is the most superior of Allah the languages, it is the language of Jannah, language of Allah(SAT), it is the language in which Allah interacted with his Prophets and Messengers, it is the language of Quraan. Dont take me wrong even i myself didnt complete the job of learning arabic. Usually when we dont understand something we go for translation or tafseer and then again when a doubt arises we go for comparing different translators. so i feel it is a difficult job, it would be best if we learn arabic and understand quraan while reciting , would be better if we understand it with traslation, good if we only recite Quraan. Anyways Inshallah Allah will reward us.
There is no denying the fact that Arabic is the most superior language, but that does not mean that Arabs are the most superior Muslims. Lets put it this way, Islam is the best of all religions, but are Muslims the best of all followers? Only a handful !
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
Though certain things can be lost in translation however they can be explained in more detail. Normally things that would get lost in translation are those which have a cultural accent or meaning to them, which is not be to found in the culture whose language is being translated to. In the abssence of actions to delineate the meaning different interpretations arise, all based on what the essence is understood to be.
Allah SWT chose Arabic for the Quran, yet Allah SWT chose to send his message in many different languages throughout different times. This should be enough to recognize that the essence of His SWT message can be understood in any language. If anything can be understood, it can definitely be explained if not in a word for word ranslation. What matters is how well and accurately a person can translate his thoughts into words.
The difference between an Arab and Non-Arab is that an Arab can pick up more meanings of the Quran without the help of a tafsir as compared to a Non-Arab. And each tafsir is unique in how much it goes to explain the grammatical implications of the Arabic or expands on the lexicon part of the Arabic words.
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
I think the Arab man did not imply that non-Arabs are not good muslims. He might just be warning that one might be careful while reading translations of Arabic texts because it gets complicated at times considering many arabic words have multiple meanings.
Even if he implied that non-arabic speakers are deviating from real Islam might be his personal opinion. The (very few) arab scholars that I have listened to very much revere south Asian scholars (past and present).
Re: Being an Arab does not make you a better Muslim
Learning Arabic is NOT enough to understand the Quran. The arabic that the quran has been revealed in is very very old school and difficult to understand. To make an analogy, look at today's spoken english i.e very slang. Now look at the english in books and novels etc, very structured and often you run into words you dont understand. Now look at the english that Shakespeare wrote his novels in, way too hardcore. Now imagine a dehaati from a pind attempting to study shakespearen english. That is a bit how we look like trying to study the Quran.
Also the Quran is in the form of the highest and strictest standards of poetry. To even begin writing a few lines of such a literary masterpiece you have to have studied arabic literature for years. We have a hard time digesting urdu literature, and thats our mother tongue. Imagine having to digest the same of another language.
Well, i totally agree that we cannot judge who is superior to Allah (SAT), it is nothing like religious men are only in arabia, nor Allah(SAT) count our deeds based on our nationality or deeds of our fore fathers. Every one is individually responsible for his own deeds.
And for CHEEGUM right now i remember only one verse from holy Quraan where Allah(SAT) Himself says that Quraan is easy to learn( i dont remember the surah, so please if some can or i will search for it if you want)
WALAKHAD YASSARNAL KHUR-AANA LIZZIKR FAHAL MIM-MUDDAKIR
AND INDEED WE HAVE MADE QURAAN EASY TO UNDERSTAND AND REMEMBER SO IS THERE ANY ONE WHO RECEIVE ADMONITION?
so we should never think that Quraan is the most difficult book to understand or arabic is the most dificult language to learn. It is the most easiest one. I didnot heard of any non muslim who has byhearted his/her religious book. But mashallah just when we turn to Quraan we see many people who have learned Quraan byheart, i even saw many kids below 6 years who know Quraan by heart.May Allah make us all among those who have learned Quraan.Ameen!
I think the Arab man did not imply that non-Arabs are not good muslims. He might just be warning that one might be careful while reading translations of Arabic texts because it gets complicated at times considering many arabic words have multiple meanings.
.
Dont you think its a generalization on his part to assume that non-arab people do not know Quran. I think even Arab people need to read Tafseer to understand the real meaning of Quran. Sahaba themselves understood the real message of Quran by requesting Prophet to explain. Dont you think they did not know the translation? So assuming that non-arabs would read just the translation and getting whatever message they could understand is a major generalization.
No non-arab in his right mind would try to understand the Quran just by translation, it requires and Alim and/or Tafseer to understand Quran and that requirement is same for both Arabs and non-Arabs.
That is why I said what I said in the title.
Anyway, I am not trying to put Arab brothers down in general. I love them as much as you guys love them, but every now and then I do get this superiorty sense from them. I hope that I am wrong
Anyway, I am not trying to put Arab brothers down in general. I love them as much as you guys love them, but every now and then I do get this superiorty sense from them. I hope that I am wrong...
You are not wrong. It is a historical fact that even long before Islam was introduced to them, the Arabs had a sense of superiority in their race and it still persists.
The word 'Ajami' (some consider it a racist remark) is said to depict that sense of superiority. But then, a lot of other nations have that and we have to learn to live with that.
