[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
All I know is that in one masjid I know, people actually came to blows on the issue of saying darood after salah. From that day, I figured there are somethings best left at home.
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What people do WRONG in the name of religion does not ever represent the true side of the religion; the same way a terrorist does not represent the actual face of Islam.
Yeah, well thats life.
Interestingly, these were all supposedly parhay likhay people in a very well-off neighborhood in Lahore. They had no scruples punching another muslim on his face right inside a masjid, and were doing it all in the name of honoring the Prophet (peace by upon him), and the other party was punching them right back to stop "bidda" from corrupting "their" Islam. Al Amaan Al Hafeez!
small potatoes.
i know a friend who invited respected molanas from Lahore from these two opposite spectrums to his sisters wedding. i **** you not, the two camps had to be seperated on a frikkin shadi function.
^ I have a theory. #1 its too friggin hot over there so all the garmi gets into their dimagh, and #2 they have nothing better to do. Take your pick.
i think its both. in addition i think a lot of people find religion a convenient way to vent their tendencies to make others miserable...a kind of concealed, underlying sadism.. while feeling good about it, since its right, and technically sawab. i cant think of any other more enjoyable kar-e-kher.
I know people, including myself, enjoy setting everyone else on the right path much much more than fulfilling other duties. justification? amar bil maroof, nahi anil munkar. what about other things essential to your salvation as your define it.. but dont fulfill? most of us are either very altruistic..doling out hidaya for others when we should keep it for ourselves... or very ill-motivated in our dawahs.
everything else gets clouded, including the fact that they're guests at someone else's home, at a function where success literally determines the girl's future and the saas's cannon fodder. the same mullas have children, they too marry their daughters off. they would like their guests to behave like civilised men, if they find Islam a religion of justice, they should atleast do the same. but naturally wohi waqt to hota hay dawa karne ka. itne loge jo dekh rahay hen.
They think that their thumbs are miraculously like a mobile set and nails in the both thumbs are like mobile set screen showing some pictures of holy places remotely. When they recites some holy names those pictures and images come in their nails, then in love they kiss those nails and touch with their eyes for Barakt. They also quote an historical event (maybe a hadith or a tradition) for this concept. I don’t remember that.
Note: More than 70-80 % of Sunni Muslims in Subcontinent are from this Suni sect. they follow Fiah e Hanafi and Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Bralvi as Mujadad of the last century.
Note: Shah Amad Nurani (late), Dr. Tahir ul Qadari, Abdul Star khan Niyazi(late), And all Peers (Sunni saints) are from this Sect. Dawat-e-Islami is their Tablighi Jamat. No link with any terrorist group, they are not extremists, weak in politics and bureaucracy.
^ I concur with what inuit has written above (last two paragraphs only :)), with a minor caveat. I am not necessarily sure if I will call it a 'sect'. I mean, its probably just semantics, but 'sect' to me is like shia, sunni etc.
Barelvis are more like a sub-sect, cz they are followers of Imam Abu Hanifa, so technically they are Hanafi Sunnis, and on top of that they follow the teachings of Imam Barelvi.
Although I suspect that the 70-80% of Pakistanis who are "Barelvis" don't know that. They just follow the aqaeed and rituals taught to them by their parents and fore-fathers. They consider themselves sunnis. Period.
Sect and sub-sect are just like a folder and a sub-folder (directory and sub-directory) in Microsoft Windows environment -no big difference; same properties and features. Same as a man and his child.
The following site tells us a different story. Deviant Sects
Assalam o Alaikum ..
As i posted before....the difference between two sects started to mount up after ahmed raza sahibs fatwa of takfeer of sunni ulema.....sunni tehrik and some other brelvi organistaions are promoting that very mission of * aala hadrat * .....
However i disagree with inuit on 60-70 % majority is brelvi......most of the major ulema in subcontinent were sunnis/deobandis ....and then majority of brelvi people dont subscribe to this takferri habit of aal hazrat followers....
So only minorty is more vocal of these idfferences..otherwsie they are normally a subsect - just difference in some interpretations( milad, samaa etc) but no major difference...
wasalam
On the first point, yes, thats what I am saying. Its more semantics. Brings us back to the question of “what is the definition of sect?”. Not that I am necessarily interested in an answer, but this is just to keep a perspective. Some people here would even refuse to be drawn into a discussion as to what sect they are (“I am just a muslim” :snooty: ), while some are willing to go into the minutia… sunni-hanafi-deobandi :Pagri:
Anyway, on to the other point, there are all kinds of websites, that claim to be the sole authority on the truth. What I find amusing is the doomsday scenarios they create. “Falana sect are a threat to Islamic Unity today”. They try to create a hysteria against someone else, cz they feel that is the only way to project their own thoughts. I, personally find it very lame. No one is a threat to Islamic unity unless we make them a threat, and if anything, websites that “reveal” the “truth” about “deviant sects” are doing more harm to unity than anything else. But then again, unity is not their main concern anyway. Their main concern is to propagate their ideology by all means necessary, even if it means creating fitna in the ummah. Sadly the results of such thinking are being manifested in the events taking place in Pakistan and rest of the world, where sunnis are killing shias, wahabbis are killing sunnis, jews are killing muslims, christians are killing whoever they can lay their hands on, so on and so forth.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
the difference between two sects started to mount up after ahmed raza sahibs fatwa of takfeer of sunni ulema
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All the differences start from somewhere. have certain origins. without any difference a sect/group/party can not be formed. Fatwa of Takfeer were from both sides.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
sunni tehrik and some other brelvi organistaions are promoting that very mission of * aala hadrat * .....
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Their work is continuing in organized and un-organized manner like others.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
However i disagree with inuit on 60-70 % majority is brelvi......most of the major ulema in subcontinent were sunnis/deobandis
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Sunni Deobandi appears in majority because of many reasons their organization, foreign support, media coverage especially after Afghan war and Zia Marshall Law, most of the big-Sunni mosques in cities taken over by Department of Ookaf and funds collection using latest media. Baralvies don’t have these kind of things. Well supported Deobandi Madrissas are producing more Deobandi Ullema as compared to Baravlies. Baravlies children are still studying in mosque side small rooms in rural areas using old teaching techniques with no funds available.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
and then majority of brelvi people dont subscribe to this takferri habit of aal hazrat followers....
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Same as Deobandies. they dont subscribe their ullema's Fatawas of Takfeer.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
So only minorty is more vocal of these idfferences..otherwsie they are normally a subsect - just difference in some interpretations( milad, samaa etc) but no major difference...
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Both are sub-sects, Sects infact in Subcontinent. One is invisible majority and other appears to be in majority.
I agree!
I believe this statement was directed to me.
Alhamdu Lillah I refuse to me Sunni or Shia or any other sect.
More whenever I get time. The present day Islam is to follow everything except the real deen of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr. K: *
I believe this statement was directed to me.
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You believe wrong, not that it matters. There are plenty of people like that. Its nothing wrong, per se. But well. Whatever. Suit yourself.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr. K: *
I believe this statement was directed to me.
Alhamdu Lillah I refuse to me Sunni or Shia or any other sect.
More whenever I get time. The present day Islam is to follow everything except the real deen of Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
[/QUOTE]
It means its another SECT :-)
actually bao, the majority of the subcontinent belongs to the barailvi school. Deobandis with the strict version of the religion (used to?) find support in wahhabi saudi arabia, even though wahabis are from a different imam, imam hanbal. and thus the deobandis are very organised and financially supported in comparison to the barelvis. which is why we see a growing talebanization (again, wahhabi/deobandi) in Pakistan, something which to me is a little sad.. since I prefer the much more tolerant and flexible barelvis, as does inuit seemingly :).
see the link I posted for verification of the same.
This is correct!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
the majority of the subcontinent belongs to the barailvi school. Deobandis with the strict version of the religion (used to?) find support in wahhabi saudi arabia, even though wahabis are from a different imam, imam hanbal. and thus the deobandis are very organised and financially supported in comparison to the barelvis. which is why we see a growing talebanization (again, wahhabi/deobandi) in Pakistan ...
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This is my understanding as well.
How could you reach to conclusion being muslim means another sect?
Why is so important to be a Sunni or Shia instead of following the religion of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) and Prophet Abraham?
Faisal aviod sarcasm.