Don’t ask why.
What do they do different from regular Sunnis? I have heard they recite Durood aloud after Namaaz or is it after Azaan? When and which Durood do they recite?
I’ve seen a friend from school wipe his thumbs over his eyes during Azaan, but I can’t remember at which point precisely?
Jazakallah.
Zakiii,
Tahir ul Qadri is just another professional Mullah. All these Mullah, Muftis, Imams, Ayatollahs had self appointed themselves as the only rightful owner of deen.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr. K: *
Zakiii,
Tahir ul Qadri is just another professional Mullah. All these Mullah, Muftis, Imams, Ayatollahs had self appointed themselves as the only rightful owner of deen.
[/QUOTE]
self appointed? good! point to be noted
Why do braelvis wipe there thumbs of there eyes during azaan ?
I have seen it done by some people but don`t know why,Does anyone have the answer?
Just from an informational standpoint, what you are describing is when people touch their eyes and kiss as a sign of respect towards the Prophet Muhammad (Peace and Blessings be Upon him) when anyone utters his name. During azaan or aqaama, this is when the mu'azzin says "Ashadu Ana Muhammad Ar Rasool Allah".
I have a question.. if it can be answered without fistfights associated with typical posters here that'd be just great.
these barelvis and deobandi groups in sunni islam, why do they exist? i thought there were only four schools of fiqh in sunnism and after that they closed ijtihaad? where did these two come from? and are there others outside the subcontinent?
i know deobandi is from deoband and was started by a group of mullas in the 19th century. what about barelvi?
^
The two schools (Madrasah) of Sunnies, one in Deoband and one in Bareli -both in India.
Scholars gradauted from Deoband were refered to as Deobandi and from Bareli were refered to as Barelvi.
but if ijtihaad was closed after the 4 imams, why is there such a vast difference in almost everything between the two schools?
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ravage: *
**but if ijtihaad was closed after the 4 imams*
[/QUOTE]
I never heard of that.
And as for the differences, they are as minute to ignore. In sunni mosque you will find both people together. In all mosque whereever I have been I have found both praying together.
peaceful Muslims, good Muslims pray together in mosques. doesnt stop other less-peaceful Muslims from blowing each other up.
barelvis for instance have Sunni Tehreek, their own (covertly) militant organisation that has a (veiled) stated aim of combating deobandi/wahhabis. go into the introduction. they were very active in karachi in around 1996 when i first saw them appearing. their leader was killed, allegedly by SSP abt three years ago.
http://www.sunnitehreek.com.pk/
regarding the ijtihaad.. its a very common sunni-history thing. google “gates of ijtihad”, and you’ll see the history and the controversy behind it. basically scholars around 1000 AD did ijma that the 4 imams had done as much interpretation as necessary, and any further might endanger the coherence of the religion. and thus the gates of Ijtihad were closed, which is now disputed by modern progressive Sunni Muslims.
I think Extremists are everywhere..
I know myself that I am basically a follower of Barelvi lines of thoughts primarily but it’s not Barelvi, deobandi, sunni, shia that matters, it’s being Muslim and FOLLOWING prophet Muhammad:saw: which matters.
I had taken bayah on the hand of a teacher who happened to be a follower of Deoband and had taken courses of Zik’r from him. I never found any thing to give me doubts on any matter.
It’s all doubtful when we start playing “Holier than thou” game.
Ravage: I even had shia friends who prayed with me in congregation.
As for the Ijtehaad, I beleive you are right as I now remember something along those lines. But I also remember people starting to talk about to open the gates of Ijtehaad once more due to the current situations. I think It’s a great idea.
**Manfia’t aik hai iss Qoum kee, Nuqsaan bhee aik
Aik hee sub kaa Nabi:saw: Deen bhee, Imaan bhee aik
Haram-e-Paak bhee, ALLAH:swt: bhee, Quran bhee aik
Kuch baRi baat thee hotay jo Musalmaan bhee aik
Firqah bandi hai kaheeN, aur kaheeN zaataiN haiN
Kiyaa zamaanay maiN panapnay kee yehi bataiN haiN?
**
i agree with you. and i also think that closing the gates of ijtihaad isnt really a good idea.
just seems odd that inspite of the gates being closed these two schools exist and are consistently at odds..particularly over na'ats and mazars. perhaps they dont recognise the closure of ijtihad?
Re: Becoming a Barelvi for a day (Tahir ul-Qadri style)
The wiping of thumbs is an inovation in islam. So is the ‘daroods’ after every salat and before every Aazan. Quran & Sunnah [hadith] dont recomend these things. Self made inovations.
My brother here has made a very good point that '…people touch their eyes and kiss as a sign of repect towards Muhammad [s]…"
Brother tell me s’thing:
1- Were the companions disrepsectfull to Muhannad [s]? If not then why didnt they performed such acts when they heard the Aazan.
2- When Allah’s name is taken in the Aazan why dont any respectful acts take place. For instance when the mu’azzin says:
“Allah hu Akbar, Allah hu Akbar”
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
these barelvis and deobandi groups in sunni islam, why do they exist? i thought there were only four schools of fiqh in sunnism and after that they closed ijtihaad? where did these two come from? and are there others outside the subcontinent?
[/QUOTE]
a) Deobandis and Barelvis are both sub-divisions of Hanafi fiqh.
b) Ijtihad wasn't closed after the 4 leading sunni imams (I say leading, because there are many other Sunni scholars since who get referred to as "Imam", the most recent being Imam Hassan Al-Banna, who founded the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt) - it was closed by consensus by leading Sunni ulema after the Mongols took over Iraq (the intellectual heartland of the Muslim world, where much of religious scholarship was done) in the 13th century AD, for fear that Mongol ideas would pollute Islam through ijtihad. Unfortunately, after the Mongal menace was lifted and several great Muslim nations re-established, such as the Uthmani and Mameluk sultanates, they didn't get round to ever deciding whether ijtihad should be permissable again. It's taken hundreds of years since, but its slowly coming back into acceptability this during the past 100-odd years.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
a) Deobandis and Barelvis are both sub-divisions of Hanafi fiqh.
[/QUOTE]
You mean sub-sects?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
b) Ijtihad wasn't closed after the 4 leading sunni imams
[/QUOTE]
Not not "by" its "at".
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
the most recent being Imam Hassan Al-Banna, who founded the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt) - it was closed by consensus by leading Sunni ulema after the Mongols took over Iraq (the intellectual heartland of the Muslim world
[/QUOTE]
They closed "ijtihaad" by ijtihaad and then opened it again by ijtihaad.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
for fear that Mongol ideas would pollute Islam through ijtihad.
[/QUOTE]
Funny ideas
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Unfortunately, after the Mongal menace was lifted and several great Muslim nations re-established, such as the Uthmani and Mameluk sultanates, they didn't get round to ever deciding whether ijtihad should be permissable again. It's taken hundreds of years since, but its slowly coming back into acceptability this during the past 100-odd years.
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately; if it is clear, why not right-away, why slowly?
Assalam o Alaikum
1- Deobandis and brelvis are two different interpretaion of hanafi fiqah- evovled due to difference in interpretation of farsi books by scholars....THere fore you dont see this difference in any other area * viz* where farsi/arabic is spoken....
BAsically the differences arose after MOulana Ahmed raza khan gave tafeeri fatwa of some ulema in his book hassam ul harmain ....Some of the diferences between the two sects are very minor...as said above just different interpretaions of translations....there fore both moulana ashrafali thanvi and PIr mehr ali shah both had ijah of bayah from HAji imdad ullah sahib....
As far as doors of ijtihad is concerned.....yes it is closed as far as interpretaion of established ihkam is concerned....you can not change number of rikaats in a namaz...
HOwever ijtihadd in new massail is a contiouing process and is done in every part of islam...
wasalam
Re: Re: Becoming a Barelvi for a day (Tahir ul-Qadri style)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by stupid idiot: *
The wiping of thumbs is an inovation in islam. So is the 'daroods' after every salat and before every Aazan. Quran & Sunnah [hadith] dont recomend these things. Self made inovations.
[/QUOTE]
Well all i know is muslims in the mosques i been to when they see brelvis doing the wiping thumbs on eyes they think its strange because it not known where in islam that comes from!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
Assalam o Alaikum
1- Deobandis and brelvis are two different interpretaion of hanafi fiqah- evovled due to difference in interpretation of farsi books by scholars....THere fore you dont see this difference in any other area * viz* where farsi/arabic is spoken....
[/QUOTE]
What make one religion/sect/school of thoughts divided into two? Is there anything else other than interpretation? Religiously or politically or whatever. After all its an interpretation.
All I know is that in one masjid I know, people actually came to blows on the issue of saying darood after salah. From that day, I figured there are somethings best left at home.