I was posting in onather thread and these questions poped in my head. Just wanted to know the opinion of guppies about’em.
thx and please be honest.
I am not sure but I read somewher that in Battle of Safeen about 60 thousand and in Battle of Jamal about 18 thousand muslim died (please correct if wrong). So the question is who is responsible for the death of those muslims?
If fighting against the Khalifa-e-Waqt wrong then whats the position of the muslimeen who fought against the then Amir-Al-Momaneen, Khalifa-e-Waqt, Imam Ali (as). Please keep in mind that a lot of sahaba also took part in those battles against Ali (as)
What is the position of bibi Aisha and muawiha fighting against Ali (as). Did they ever repent for fighting against khalifa-e-Waqt?
Whom side you would have taken and why if you were present at the time of those (see below) battles? Please state the reason too.
Battle Of Safeen, Khalifah-e-Waqt Ali (as) vs. Muawiya?
Battle Of Camel, Khalifah-e-Waqt Ali (as) vs. bibi Aysha?
... one thing's for sure, Ali (r) certainly wouldn't be on the side of you hate filled vagabonds... dragging the noble family of the Prophet (s) through the mud like you do everyday...
^ you seem the most insecure of the bunch... maybe you'll see sense when older...
is this going to be another thread of mindless copy-and-pastes using hadith from companions that you declare as munafiqs when in your seedy private gatherings of hate...
oh, and mrs zer01... since Tha'labi seems to be a personal favourite going by your concluding post in the other thread... i presume you agree with his conclusion that the Prophet's (saw) Ahl al Bayt comprises his wives, his daughter, her sons, and husband... ;-)
... one thing's for sure, Ali (r) certainly wouldn't be on the side of you hate filled vagabonds... dragging the noble family of the Prophet (s) through the mud like you do everyday...
... oh, and mrs zer01... since Tha'labi seems to be a personal favourite going by your concluding post in the other thread... i presume you agree with his conclusion that the Prophet's (saw) Ahl al Bayt comprises his wives, his daughter, her sons, and husband... ;-)
and then asked a question of my own...
is this going to be another thread of mindless copy-and-pastes using hadith from companions that you declare as munafiqs when in your seedy private gatherings of hate?
gupguppy..give it a rest..let the learned guppies discuss this topic..go read a few books..increase ur knowledge and then come back and discuss stuff in religion forum :)
oh, zero... since Tha'labi seems to be a personal favourite going by your concluding post in the other thread... i presume you agree with his conclusion that the Prophet's (saw) Ahl al Bayt comprises his wives, his daughter, her sons, and husband... ;-)
gupguppy, if those Q's are that hard to reply I just make it easy for you only. Just answer this single question instaed of all four:
Whom side you would have taken and why if you were present at the time of those battles? Ali's (as), Aisha's or muawiah's? Please also state the reason.
if i was there right now i'd be so awestruck by Ali (r), Aisha (r) and the other companions that fighting would be the last thing on my mind... as for you, i see your sword is already unsheathed
^ which part of my earlier answer didn't you understand? do you want me to translate it for you into some other language?... sheathe your sword and stop thirsting for blood
1) i dont think i can answer that
2) what were they fighting for???? please do state the reasons....
3) i dont know about Hazrat Ma'awiyah (may Allah be pleased with him) but i think i read somewhere that Hazrat Ayesha (may Allah be please with her) did express regret for acting in haste, and i think it was Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) who took her off her camel and escorted her to a safe place when the battle was called off....
4) this is really tough....
most of the sahaba went in to neutral at the time....
but if really needed to be on any side, i'd certainly have no hesitation to be on the side of the khalifa....
with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman may Allah be pleased with them) already gone from the world, Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) is considered by most muslims as the most pious man of the ummah, hence i'd definitely be on his side....
Before I attempt to answer the above I must state the following:
All the above relate to history and historical incidents have been recorded very subjectively with a lot of false narrations thrown in to enhance the stance of biased parties and nothing that occurred in the above incidents will add or take away from Islam as Islam was complete on the revelation to the following verse.
“Al yawma akmaltu lakum dinakam wa atmamtu alaikam ni’mati wa raditu’ lakumul islama dinan’',” which means “Today I perfected your religion for you and completed my favour to you and have chosen for you Al-Islam as your religion.” (5:3)
Sunnis don’t hold any human to be infallible apart from the Prophets (Peace be upon them all) be they from Sahabah (raa) or Ahlul Bayt (raa).
All the Sunnis believe that Hazrat Ali (ra) was on the right and his opponents were in the wrong. Allah (swt) will judge every one for their intentions.
Imam Shafi (rahimahullaah) has stated the Sunni stance when he said the following (concerning the SAHABAH (raa): “I have allegiance for them and I seek Allaah’s forgiveness for them, and for all the people of Camel and Siffeen, those who killed and those who were killed, and all the companions of the Prophet entirety” [AAMEEN]
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said, explaining the ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah: They (i.e., the Sunnis) love the people of the household of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); they regard them with love and loyalty, and they heed the command of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) concerning them… but they reject the way of the Raafidis who hate the Sahaabah and slander them, and they reject the way of the Naasibis who insult Ahl al-Bayt in words and deed. Ahl al-Sunnah do not indulge in discussions about the disputes that took place among the Sahaabah. [Al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitiyyah, Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 3/154]
This can be answered by the following:
Narrated AbuBakrah: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said to al-Hasan ibn Ali. This son of mine is a Sayyid (chief), and I hope Allah may reconcile two parties of my community by means of him. Hammad’s version has: And perhaps Allah may reconcile two large parties of Muslims by means of him. Book 40, Number 4645
Note: The Prophet (saw) has stated that two parties are Muslim – neither of them Munafiq.
In Sunan Bayhiqi it is narrated that on the eve of the war of Jamal, Ali Radhi Allaahu ta’ala 'anh was asked about the opponents:
“Are they Mushrikeen?”
He replied: “They have run from shirk and come into Islaam”
Then he was asked “Are they Munafiqeen?”
He replied “Munafiqeen are those who don’t remember Allah, except a little (while the opponents do a lot of Zikr)”
Then he was asked: “Then what are they?”
He replied:" They are our brothers who have rebelled from us” - [Sunun Bayhiqi - Dairat ul Ma’arif edition page 173 vol 8]
Note: Hazrat Ali (ra) has stated that his opponents were ‘our brothers’.
The thing began in this way: We and the Syrians were facing each other while we had common faith in one Allah, in the same Prophet (s) and on the same principles and canons of religion. So far as faith in Allah and the Holy Prophet (s) was concerned we never wanted them (the Syrians) to believe in anything over and above or other than what they were believing in and they did not want us to change our faith. Both of us were united on these principles. The point of contention between us was the question of the murder of Uthman. It had created the split. They wanted to lay the murder at my door while I am actually innocent of it. Nahjul Balagha - Letter 58
Note: Hazrat Ali (ra) has stated that there not an iota of difference in the faith of both the parties.
“Please keep in mind that a lot of sahaba also took part in those battles against Ali (as)”
Zero1 - the above statement of yours is wrong!
There were Sahabah (raa) on the side of Hazrat Ali (ra), opposing him and the majority of them kept away from this Fitnah.
The hadith and history books are full of remorse Hazrat Aisha (ra) showed for participating in Battle of Jamal (Camel).
As for Hazrat Muawiyah (ra) I could not find anything on the Net. but you can gauge his stance form the following:
Al-Dhahabi narrated in “Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a” from Ya’ali bin Ubayd from his father who says: Abu Muslim Al-Khulani and some others went to Mu’awiyah and asked him: "Do you dispute Ali or are you equal to him?
Mu’awiyah answered: “By Allah no. I know he is better than I am, and he has the right to rule, but do not you know that Uthman was killed as an innocent? And I am his cousin and the seeker of his revenge? Therefore go to Ali and tell him to send me Uthman’s murderers then I will obey him.”
They went to Ali and talked to him, but Ali refused to hand in Uthman’s murderers to Mu’awiyah. [ Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a, vol.3, p.140]”
“Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala 'anh) and if he takes the qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to make bayah to him” [al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]
[li]Battle Of Safeen, Khalifah-e-Waqt Ali (as) vs. Muawiya?
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With no doubts I would like to be in the Camp of Hazrat Ali (ra) but not from the scoundrels who after having murdered Hazrat Uthman (ra) had joined up with Hazrat Ali (ra)’s camp and later were the ones who killed him too!
Shias should know that their books are full of narrations where Hazrat Ali (ra) has cursed and rebuked his followers. [Read Nahjul Balagha]
[li]Battle Of Camel, Khalifah-e-Waqt Ali (as) vs. bibi Aysha?
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First Choice: to with those Sahabah (raa) who kept away form this calamity.
Second Choice: to be in the Camp of Hazrat Ali (ra)
As I had said in the beginning of my post that these are historical events and like all historical events a lot of false narrations have been put out just to defame the Sahabah (raa).
We should pay heed to and reflect upon the following ayahs of the holy Quran:
These are the Words of Almighty Allah (swt) Himself:
That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case! 2:134 & 2:141
And those who came (into the faith) after them say: Our Lord! Forgive us and our brethren who were before us in the faith, and place not in our hearts any rancour toward those who believe. Our Lord! Thou art Full of Pity, Merciful. 59:10
But will any one pay heed to the above, I doubt.
I ask for Allah’s forgiveness if what I have stated is wrong.
