batao

Hangout GupShup Cafe
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ik Allah ki **masheeat **hay or ik Allah ki **raza **hay

is baat per tmaam ulma-e-karaam ka itfaaq hay k Allah ki masheeat kay baghair kuch nahi ho sakta duniya main jo kuch hay acha bura sub main Allah ki masheeat shamil hay

or ALlah ki raza main sirf jaaiz cheezain hain is ley Allah ki raza kay khilaaf ho sakta hay

Allah fermatay hain

k Allah bandooN kay kuffer say raaze nahi ,, lakin kuffar paida kis nay kia hay ? Allah nay is main Allah ki masheeat hay lakin raza nahi

or Allah fermatay hain

la ikraaha fi,deeen ..kay deen main koi zaberdastee nahi

or Allah fermaatay hain

fa man shaa'a fal yo'min wa maan shaa'a fal'yukfir
or tum main say jo chahay iman laye or jo chahay kufer keray

or sora balad main Allah fermaatay hain

wa hadinaahu najdain or hum nay donoo raastoon issy dikha deye (yanee bhalaye or buraye k)

in ayatoon main wazhat say maaloom hota hay k insan ko Ikhtyaar diya gaya hay k woh kon sa raasta chun lay

ahl-e-saadat or ahl-e-shaqawat ka faisla Allah kay ilm-e-muheet main hay ... kion Allah to jaantay hain k mera kon sa banda tmaam hidyaat or taleemat kay bad bhi gumrah rahay ga or kon seedhay rasta pa lay ga

is main yeh baat to kaheen saabit nahi hotee k Allah nay CHOOSE kia hay k yeh banday achay hoon gay or yeh kharab ?

[quote]
Allah says that if he says "be" and every human will become a naik preheizgar muslim. **But He don't say that."

But He don't say that. It should be the answer enough for intelligent minds

[/quote]

or kitnee ajeeb bat hay wiseguy k app ko apnee likhee baat hee nahi samjh ayee

Allah tala ka yeh fermaana k AGAR woh chahtay to saray insaan naik ho jatay lakin Allah nay aisa nahi chaha ?

to yeh to saamnay ki baat hay Allah nay insaan ko us kay KASAB (amal) main azad ker diya k woh jo raasta apna lay ?

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Re: batao

PG, my first my name is Wiseman not Wiseguy. Wiseguy who took this name because only one Wiseman is available here. Thanks.

Now mominah PG is saying Allah ki mashleehat or raza are two different thing. Second you whole text is full of contradictions. First of all Allah ki maslehat or Allah ki raza is one and the same. Look at just two paragraphs you put:

ahl-e-saadat or ahl-e-shaqawat ka faisla Allah kay ilm-e-muheet main hay ... kion Allah to jaantay hain k mera kon sa banda tmaam hidyaat or taleemat kay bad bhi gumrah rahay ga or kon seedhay rasta pa lay ga

And next you said:

is main yeh baat to kaheen saabit nahi hotee k Allah nay **CHOOSE* kia hay k yeh banday achay hoon gay or yeh kharab ?*

So PG, its Allah free will that He know who will be ahl-e-saadat or ahl-e-shaqawat. Thank you that you agree. So if its in Allah's knowlege, choose ki baat kaha se again. He knows because its Allah ki maslehat or raza shamil hai. I want to laugh but you are innocent and you say what you believe in. Its not your fault. :)

Mei us ki ankh pe parda daal deta hoon or parada hatta nahi jub tak mei na chaoo. I wish I remember the arabic translation of this verse but I am man of sin not like you mominah PG. But I wish you should know that Allah ki maslehat or raza is Khudai mei shamil hei. And they are both the same. :( The world we live in is all created by Allah and I am sorry to say, we all have no free will but jo woh chahe kar sakta hai at will.

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Re: batao

:konfused: ab muje jo samajh aai b thi wo b nai aa rahe

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Main ne kahaa na baba, samajh nahin aaye gee.

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Re: batao

:D mirch uncles reply was satisfactory

:@: aap logon ne pata nahi kya behas shuro kar de

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Re: batao

nanhi penguin, you are the mature girl I have seen in a very long time. Just keep on saying :bism:, Allah is beneficient and merciful. The more you praise Him, it doesn’t matter if you giving free will test or not free will test, you will in His good books. :slight_smile:

And

marbles, I didn’t ignore you. But your human will shill argument and science and arts and culture that I ignore completely. Plus the nature of doctrines we adhere to. Ok that I can argue.

But then you spoke of Quranic/Islamic traditions, thats khula tazad. Please make me understand in concise manner and tell me what exactly you believe? :slight_smile:

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With such flowery grammar, I am totally into not taking your unwise words seriously either :hehe:

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Re: batao

Okay I know its off topic but…

OMG - AQ I just saw ur eagle blinking… :eek: I didnt know it blinked. Its kinda scary :frowning:

Okay now you may continue … :chai:

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Re: batao

very good question, penguin, dear.
as i was reading chapter 20, the last ayaat read: God made the skies and the earth with wisdom. those who believe, there are signs in heavens and the earth.

i personally think about this too. why we are here. the purpose of life must be pretty redundant if we are destined to sin and to be half hearted believers.
but, i feel that the real deal is getting our will power to work against the destiny or the challenges within the destiny to go off from the track & the track being pious and God fearing in being humble, kind, as well as avoiding all contamination of the belief in God being the ONLY supreme being.

so, even if God knows that we are going to be in heavens or not, God must be wanting us to TRY and try honestly to prove to be God's genuinely.

the only thing that make us get turned off from the mystery is all and any dogmatic/ self righteous superstitious rituals and their proponents who have taken upon themselves to make the ways and manners of living by the letter from God, Quran and how the messenger Prophet Mohammed pbuh conveyed it - interpreted in the wrong way.

so, my best advice: do not let anyone tell you that you are not following Islam correctly. you are not a murderer, nor a dishonest person, you believe in God, you offer prayers with all your heart, you read Quran and read it with translation, modest in interactions with other people, sensitive and merciful, truthful, respect others as much as you can, are charitable, are kind to your parents, siblings and grand parents, are not wasteful, do not hold vengeance and are not arrogant, are clean, help people and not hurt animals and plants or the earth, then you are good.
at least you are not hippocratic.

you will see that Allah swt is still yours to hold on to. :>

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Re: batao

Dushwari well said. :)

But I want to finish this debate on my part, but I want to add one most important thing. See I tell to everybody that I meet that there is not one iota of free will that humans have. Though there is one incident I fail to mention, when I was in Ottawa last year I had a discussion with a friend and colleague of mine (he was a shia) and like all muslims he believed in free will, that was the whole purpose behind heaven and hell. So we talked for hours and finally he was convinced that there is no free will. But he told me something I can never forget, he said to me that Allah asks people to pray to Him, if people don’t pray to Him whom they should pray. I understood right away what he was saying, nobody can change the will of Allah except Himself.

So my dear penguin, pray as you must and God can change His will for anybody who sincerely pray to Him. :)

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[QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

i said MAshee'at not maslehat .. Mashee'at is a arabic word which comes from Shha'a yahsee'u .n *acording to ulmaa-e-ahle sunnat wal jammat mashhe'at means Qudrat n ILM *

[quote]

First of all Allah ki maslehat or Allah ki raza is one and the same

[/quote]

who said it ? you ? so who r u ? Alim ? mufasaar ? muhadis ? mujtahid ? muhaqiq ? do u know arabic language ? from where u get this statment ? any refrence ?

i said mashee'at n Raza is tow different things ... i proved with example n ayaah

and i took this statment from ulmaa-e-karam , in all books of Aqaaid which written by ulmaaye ahl-e-sunnah wal jamaat like
sherhul aqaaid an'nasafia written by allama saad u din taftaazaani ..

[quote]

He knows because its Allah ki** maslehat** or raza shamil hai. I want to laugh but you are innocent and you say what you believe in. Its not your fault

[/quote]

its **mashee'at **not maslehat ..

derasal app ko zaroorat hay kay app alfaaz ko pehlay us kay maana or mutlub say jaan lain ..phir koi FATWA jaree kerain ..

app ko agar kuch samjhna hota to app kam az kam un Ayyah ko zaroor bayaan kertay jinhain mainy quote kia ..ya shaaid woh app ko nazar hee nahi aain : )

Allah khud fermatay hain k mainy apnay bandoo ko dono rastay dikha deye ab woh jo chahay apna lay

or wiseman kehtay hain k nahi insan ko koi free will hasil nahi,, kia bat hay : )

agar insaan ko ikhtyaar hasil hee nahi to SAZA or jaza kis per hay phir ? Allah nay quraan kion utaara , nabi kion bhejay ?

app ko zaroorat hay kissi ahl-e-haq alim say taaleem hasil kerain ...app jis theory ko paish ker rahay hain woh bohat arsa pehlay FIRQA JABriya kay naam say guzar chuka hay jin k nazdeek insaan majboor-e-mehaz hay

is firqay ko waqt kay tamaam aahl-e-haq nay ghalat qarar diya tha ...

[QUOTE]

The world we live in is all created by Allah and I am sorry to say, we all have no free will but jo woh chahe kar sakta hai at will

[/QUOTE]

smack

Allah ki qudrat ot taqat say kis nay inkaar kia hay ..issay kehtay sawal gandum jawab chaana

yahan sawal sirf yeh k Allah nay insan ko us kay ammal main ikhtyaar diya hay ya nahi .. !

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Re: batao

PG, read what I wrote just above you. And I don't believe in sherhul aqaaid an'nasafia written by allama saad u din taftaazaani. I wish your alam-e-din ki mei "**Qudrat n ILM" and "Raza" unke haat pe pakra doo but I don't have time. **Thanks.

Atleast you pronounced my name right. :)

Ab ki baar dil mei ajab si khuwahish jagi hai
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Re: batao

^.... zaahir hay jo aadmi Ahadees per yaqeen na rakhta ho us k saamnay yeh mamole ulmaa-e-karaam kia cheez hoon gay !: )

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Re: batao

I think you are right for the first time in your life PG. But tell you the truth, this ulema are just like you and me, just humans, nothing but humans. :)

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Deep and well said.

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Re: batao

^ AQ hum nay to quraan main yeh bhi peraha hay na k Allah fermatay hain

mere bandooN main mujh say sub say zyada dernay walay ULMA hain

lakin na samjh log ulmaa-e-karam ko jo din raat jaan maal say Deen kay ley sirf ho chukay hain un ko apnay or hamaray jaysay gunahgaaroN say milaatay hain jin ko
tv movies songs sun,nay or Gyms jaanay say hee fursat nahi !

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i think yuN sahi hey Allah farmaata hey

Pardon me if i am wrong,

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There is no need to be so melodramatic about it. There are lots of ulema a soo, who are in the market for selling their books , looks and fatwas. If they were not there then there will not be a single suicide attack on masajids of shia , sunni or ahle hadees in Pakistan.
Then what do you think about dabba peer's , they also sell deen for a little worldly benefit and " ashtarow dalalat bil huda" key tasweer banay hoo-a hain.

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Re: batao

Mirch yaar.. I think... PG was refering to Ulama-e-Haq because how 'every' single Aalim was trashed out by the poster to whom she was replying.

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Re: batao

^ jazaak Allah Aq to supporting my answer

gul-e-tasbeeh > donoo chaltay hain .. : )