In another example of how bizarre the whole situation has become, a Jirga in Bannu has given the local Taliban a deadline to close their offices…
Now why cant other do the same thing in other areas?!?! http://www.dawn.com/2007/11/02/nat32.htm
Taliban told to close offices by Nov 12
By Our Correspondent
BANNU, Nov 1: A jirga of Ahmadzai Wazir tribe of Domel town and adjoining areas has told the local Taliban to close their offices and stop their activities in the area by Nov 12.
At its meeting in Domel on Thursday, the jirga urged local people to stop giving donations to the Taliban.
It decided that an armed force would be raised after the deadline to control the law and order situation and work for maintaining peace.
The meeting observed that the Taliban had violated an earlier agreement with local people and declared that they should pay a fine of Rs1 million. It decided that anyone providing space for Taliban’s office or giving them donation would be fined Rs500,000. “We will not take the law into our hands, rather we will abide by Islamic injunctions,” the participants said.
The jirga constituted a committee to select volunteers for the force and ensure that the Taliban closed their office by the deadline.
I hope to God, the army actively supports this jirga and it's lashkar and not leave them to be beheaded one by one as was previously the case.
Beg to disagree.
We don't need to support one jirga against the other. If someone wants to do positive stuff, they should join police, FC, or other law enforcement agencies. Arms should only be used by the state-mandated agencies.
We don't live in the time of vigilante justice where every Tom, Dick, and Harry (Anwar Khan, Aslam Khan, and Gulab khan) can take their guns out and shoot people in the streets.
We should not tolerate tribal behavior even from those who want to do good thing.
The time to be tribal is over, and time to be civilized is here. The sooner we realize this, the better it is for all of us.
We don't need to support one jirga against the other. If someone wants to do positive stuff, they should join police, FC, or other law enforcement agencies. Arms should only be used by the state-mandated agencies.
We don't live in the time of vigilante justice where every Tom, Dick, and Harry (Anwar Khan, Aslam Khan, and Gulab khan) can take their guns out and shoot people in the streets.
We should not tolerate tribal behavior even from those who want to do good thing.
The time to be tribal is over, and time to be civilized is here. The sooner we realize this, the better it is for all of us.
Jinnah didnt have any problem with these tribes. Thats how they have lived for ages. if you want to impose your defination of civilized life, then my friend, its not them but you who is living ages behind. So much for freedom.
I say, we do what Jinnah did, let the tribes live their lives like they choose to as long as it doesnt produce terrorists.
I say, we do what Jinnah did, let the tribes live their lives like they choose to as long as it doesnt produce terrorists.
Unfortunately, letting them live their lives like they choose has led to them harbouring terrorists; as well as as harbouring those who attack Hamid Karzai's government, recognised by Pakistan as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.
Pakistan has a duty to prevent its territory from being used to attack a friendly, recognised government.
Unfortunately, letting them live their lives like they choose has led to them harbouring terrorists; as well as as harbouring those who attack Hamid Karzai's government, recognised by Pakistan as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.
Pakistan has a duty to prevent its territory from being used to attack a friendly, recognised government.
Please be corrected. These terrorists were not created by these tribes. they were created by the Pakistan govt funded by the US to fight againts the USSR. The govt is responsible for them not the tribes.
Please be corrected. These terrorists were not created by these tribes. they were created by the Pakistan govt funded by the US to fight againts the USSR. The govt is responsible for them not the tribes.
You are partially right.The current govt is not responsible, it was General Zia's govt and Benazir's govt later on helped to make them.
Musharraf's govt is suffering from Zia and Benazir's mistake, is trying to fix that error by unmaking these terrorists.
You are partially right.The current govt is not responsible, it was General Zia's govt and Benazir's govt later on helped to make them.
Musharraf's govt is suffering from Zia and Benazir's mistake, is trying to fix that error by unmaking these terrorists.
You are right. What the govt should try and do is give the tribes the options rather than bombing their places. They should provide them with better life opportunites. Buil roads for them, schools etc. This is the only way the tribes will realize whats good for them. They are not bad people. Its only about a few thousands among the millions that is giving the whole area a bad name.
The govt should talk to the jirga of Banu and see if they can help. The govt should reward the Banu area for producing such a result. We will only create more terrorist by force. And its not the army nor the terrorists but the poor tribes that will suffer the most.
You are right. What the govt should try and do is give the tribes the options rather than bombing their places. They should provide them with better life opportunites. Buil roads for them, schools etc. This is the only way the tribes will realize whats good for them. They are not bad people. Its only about a few thousands among the millions that is giving the whole area a bad name.
The govt should talk to the jirga of Banu and see if they can help. The govt should reward the Banu area for producing such a result. We will only create more terrorist by force. And its not the army nor the terrorists but the poor tribes that will suffer the most.
Remember the Chinese engineers killed in the FATA a few months ago? They were doing building and reconstruction... but they were killed because there was no security.
Reconstruction can only occur once it is safe enough for it - once the government is in control.
Remember the Chinese engineers killed in the FATA a few months ago? They were doing building and reconstruction... but they were killed because there was no security.
Reconstruction can only occur once it is safe enough for it - once the government is in control.
I am sorry you misunderstood me. What I really meant by reconstruction was offering great schooling for some students from the tribes who could come back and help the tribes evolve. I undestand what you are saying and who knows the kiiling of the workers may have been a doing of a Taliban or even a tribesman. But I cant help but think that there is not one person in the tribe that wants his kid to go to school and want things to change. That is the person the govt should look for to try and better the situation.
Remember its not revolution but evolution, its not aggitation but education that is needed for a better society.
That would be ideal. But during the years the children get educated and grow up in, attacks on Hamid Karzai's government from within Pakistan will continue.
Either let Karzai use his forces to fight back against attackers based in Pakistan, or we provide security at the border and border provinces ourselves.
Pakistan elected to secure the border ourselves. But our border forces come under attack from militants, requiring more soldiers to secure the border forces, needing more soldiers to secure a safe zone....
......Remember its not revolution but evolution, its not aggitation but education that is needed for a better society.
Oh Bahi sahib,
Maddy has a point. This is no revolution, it is simply a matter of law enforcement. Tribals can live their life the way they want, however when they start targeting law enforcement officials, then all bets are off.
Whether that bet was placed by Jinnah, Bhutto, Zia, or Musharraf, it is off the table now.
No country can survive and remain intact if it allows anarchy "read Ben Laden" to get a hold and then spread.
Ben Laden is a cancer, and SOME tribals are the careers of the cancer. Either you kill those careers and source of cancer, or you get killed. The choice is yours Mr. Ha.
We don't need to support one jirga against the other. If someone wants to do positive stuff, they should join police, FC, or other law enforcement agencies. Arms should only be used by the state-mandated agencies.
We don't live in the time of vigilante justice where every Tom, Dick, and Harry (Anwar Khan, Aslam Khan, and Gulab khan) can take their guns out and shoot people in the streets.
We should not tolerate tribal behavior even from those who want to do good thing.
The time to be tribal is over, and time to be civilized is here. The sooner we realize this, the better it is for all of us.
We can worry about that once the FATA is joined with the rest of the country... For the mean time, the situation dictates that we find allies wheve ever possile and use them to our advantage..
Maddy has a point. This is no revolution, it is simply a matter of law enforcement. Tribals can live their life the way they want, however when they start targeting law enforcement officials, then all bets are off.
Whether that bet was placed by Jinnah, Bhutto, Zia, or Musharraf, it is off the table now.
No country can survive and remain intact if it allows anarchy "read Ben Laden" to get a hold and then spread.
Ben Laden is a cancer, and SOME tribals are the careers of the cancer. Either you kill those careers and source of cancer, or you get killed. The choice is yours Mr. Ha.
I dont want to get into an endless debate but this is all I will say. You said no country can survive and remain intact if it allows anarchy to get a hold and then spread. In the same respect, no country can survive where the countries military is targeting its own people. What do you want? You want to military to bomb the tribes and dont expect the tribes to react.
Since you are so pro western, let me give you an example, Chicago was screaming bloody murder all over the place in the 19th century. the mafia was all over the place. The American govt didnt choose to use the military. The people had sympathies towards the gangs and a military action would have only made things worse. The govt choose to give the people other aspects of life and made them believe that indeed the mafia is not good. Only then force was used and yet no military was requested. It was the local law inforcement that did the job.
Maybe the pro-westerners should try and inject this idea into their heads to resolve the crises in Pakistan. They should believe in the tribes rather than just deminshing them. There are humans on either side of the fence.
I dont want to get into an endless debate but this is all I will say. You said no country can survive and remain intact if it allows anarchy to get a hold and then spread. In the same respect, no country can survive where the countries military is targeting its own people. What do you want? You want to military to bomb the tribes and dont expect the tribes to react.
Since you are so pro western, let me give you an example, Chicago was screaming bloody murder all over the place in the 19th century. the mafia was all over the place. The American govt didnt choose to use the military. The people had sympathies towards the gangs and a military action would have only made things worse. The govt choose to give the people other aspects of life and made them believe that indeed the mafia is not good. Only then force was used and yet no military was requested. It was the local law inforcement that did the job.
Maybe the pro-westerners should try and inject this idea into their heads to resolve the crises in Pakistan. They should believe in the tribes rather than just deminshing them. There are humans on either side of the fence.
Let me give you another example. Britain was experiencing an armed rebellion in Northern Ireland in the 1960 with Catholic terrorists revolting. They sent in paratroopers, army forces, and even special forces death squads that fought a 35 year war that ended successfully with the terrorists disarming and agreeing to take part in the democratic political life of the country.
Let me give you another example. Britain was experiencing an armed rebellion in Northern Ireland in the 1960 with Catholic terrorists revolting. They sent in paratroopers, army forces, and even special forces death squads that fought a 35 year war that ended successfully with the terrorists disarming and agreeing to take part in the democratic political life of the country.
That example is very similar to our situation. As people in northern ireland can get both Irish and British citizen ships and what not. That may not be the case with Waziristan "legally" but this has been going on for sometime now. I would like to point out that if it too the British 35 years, why would we accomplish our mission sooner. Also if it may take that long using the military, is it not worth trying to educate their kids today so that they can help their tribes later?
That example is very similar to our situation. As people in northern ireland can get both Irish and British citizen ships and what not. That may not be the case with Waziristan "legally" but this has been going on for sometime now. I would like to point out that if it too the British 35 years, why would we accomplish our mission sooner. Also if it may take that long using the military, is it not worth trying to educate their kids today so that they can help their tribes later?
The difference is that militants in Northern Ireland were not attacking a neighbouring country.
Either Pakistan has to take action right now, or Afghanistan will (using its allies).
What can Pakistan do right now to try and reduce cross-border attacks into Afghanistan next month?