:salam2:
Is Bangladesh got victory during the 1971 Liberation War with Pakistani Forces? What you say about the below ‘comments’. Share your views.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
Victory for them in association with India and facilitated by Pakistani rulers
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
Pak Forcez were ther to Protect People. Indian terrorists, Mukhti bahni, Sheikh Mujeb n Zulfkar Ali Bhuto r respnsibl 4 all that. Agred to what lethal said, sheik mujeb should hv formd d gov.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
East Pakistan had more population than west Pakistan combined. 90000 army men were trapped there as mukti bahini had indian support too. There was no land connection between the two wings which were separated by thousands of miles. In those elections mujib had got majority and should have been handed over the government, but yahya and Bhutto were not in favour of such arrangement.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I think Yahya was willing to give it to Mujib, but couldn't do so because of pressure from Bhutto, Yahya was indecisive at times and I feel he was incompetent as well especially when put up against in comparison with Indira.
India's effort of breaching in, was well facilitated by fissures in political structure of Pakistan. Don't know if it is true or not, but it is also said that Bengalis felt that they are being discriminated against much before march 1971, even military personnel and officers deserted, this implies that wound in their psyche was deep. For India, it was the opportunity and Indira played it well.
Had East Pakistan been in good shape as Bangladesh is in now? Absolutely no idea :)
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I personally think the concept of East and west Pakistan was not workable. I am glad it's over but the divorce should have been amicable.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I think Yahya was willing to give it to Mujib, but couldn't do so because of pressure from Bhutto, Yahya was indecisive at times and I feel he was incompetent as well especially when put up against in comparison with Indira.
India's effort of breaching in, was well facilitated by fissures in political structure of Pakistan. Don't know if it is true or not, but it is also said that Bengalis felt that they are being discriminated against much before march 1971, even military personnel and officers deserted, this implies that wound in their psyche was deep. For India, it was the opportunity and Indira played it well.
Had East Pakistan been in good shape as Bangladesh is in now? Absolutely no idea :)
To be honest, west Pakistani elites (rulers) didn't deserve East Pakistan from first day and yes they were discriminated way before March 1971.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
^^ this is too civilized proposition for us, even two brothers cannot separate peacefully, how can two nations, this is sub continent :)
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I personally think the concept of East and west Pakistan was not workable. I am glad it's over but the divorce should have been amicable.
I so wish that was the case.
Also, they could have been made two separate states to start with.
Or as you said, if the rulers were honest and true visionaries, they could have set up a system where there were two states under a confederation or separated honourably without bloodshed.
But that could have only happened if the West Pakistani leaders were not only honest but very competent.
My million dollar question is, do BanglaDeshis commemorate Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's birthday (which is today) ?
If not, it is a shame because now they are creating another unnecessary psychological disadvantage for themselves in opposition to Pakistan.
They should own him just as much as the Pakistanis (even though his idea of Urdu as national language was not well-received in East Pakistan).
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I so wish that was the case.
Also, they could have been made two separate states to start with.
Or as you said, if the rulers were honest and true visionaries, they could have set up a system where there were two states under a confederation or separated honourably without bloodshed.
But that could have only happened if the West Pakistani leaders were not only honest but very competent.
My million dollar question is, do BanglaDeshis commemorate Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's birthday (which is today) ?
If not, it is a shame because now they are creating another psychological disadvantage for themselves in opposition to Pakistan.
They should own him just as much as the Pakistanis (even though his idea of Urdu as national language was not well-received in East Pakistan).
hum ke Thairey ajnabi itni madaraatooN ke baad
phir banain gaiN aashnaa kitni mulaqatooN ke baad
Kab nazar maiN aaey ge bai_daGh sabzey ki bahar
Khoon ke dhabbey dhulain gaiN kitni barsaatooN ke baad
Language was always in roots of Bengali. When they were labelled Muslims due to their love for language, culture (which included music), they felt deceived. Separation of East Pakistan is not only political failure of West Pakistan, but a cultural and social failure as well and Pakistani still didn't learn that lesson unfortunately.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I so wish that was the case.
Also, they could have been made two separate states to start with.
Or as you said, if the rulers were honest and true visionaries, they could have set up a system where there were two states under a confederation or separated honourably without bloodshed.
But that could have only happened if the West Pakistani leaders were not only honest but very competent.
My million dollar question is, do BanglaDeshis commemorate Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah's birthday (which is today) ?
If not, it is a shame because now they are creating another unnecessary psychological disadvantage for themselves in opposition to Pakistan.
They should own him just as much as the Pakistanis (even though his idea of Urdu as national language was not well-received in East Pakistan).
Do Pakistani's commemorate contribution of Husyn Shaeed Surhawardy, who was first general commanding spearheading the cause of Pakistan with blood of his bengalis, the other question is, does present day Pakistanis remember the overall bengali contribution at all?
Even present day bengalis love there Robindranoth Tagore more that Allama Iqbal, and I have learned from my indian bengalis friend about greatness of Kazi Nazrul Islam.
Incidentally, Bongobandhu, Sheikh Mujibur Rahmon is the most popular bengali of all times, according to surveys conducted in both sides of border.
Line of divide in Punjabis is 1000 times more deeper than that of Bengalis :)
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
Yes, Pakistanis do remember the Bengali's contribution with regret and a sense of loss when there is discussion on this topic.
There is just not enough discussion though.
Tagore obviously has his edge. Iqbal used Urdu and Farsi in his work.
Mujib is the one who had Jinnah's sister Faitma (called the Mother of Nation in Pakistan) win elections in E. Pak in the 60's when nefarious elements in Punjab made her lose against the dictator Ayyub in Punjab.
I guess Bengal is too far from the West.
I agree with the point about Bengalis versus Punjabis.
Incidentally, Bangal and Punjab were supposed to be part of Pakistan whole.
But Congress leaders fought tooth and nail and carved them up.
Thus a weaker, truncated and moth-eaten Pakistan was created.
The question about M. A. Jinnah stands. He is the father of the nation.
Just because Bangladesh broke off from Pakistan does not mean it should disown Jinnah.
That would be a disservice to themselves and their heritage.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
Line of divide in Punjabis is 1000 times more deeper than that of Bengalis :)
there is no comparison with punjab - there was no cleansing based on religion despite the violence in bengal at partition. west bengal still has more than 25% muslims; bangladesh even after the 1971 mass killing of hindus still has close to 10% hindus who play an active visible role in society unlike in pakistani punjab and sindh where they are invisible, or occupy the very bottom rungs. (TS, your crush shabnam is hindu too, bet you didnt know that ;) )
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
I knew that. 
She is everybody’s crush in Pakistan. She ruled Pak cinema for 2 decades or more.
Her husband, Robin Ghosh is/was one of the very eminent and prominent Pak film music composers.
His songs had the gentle and melodious touch of Bengal.
Pakistanis love their Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and other minorities. There are bigots also like anywhere else.
That is why larger minority population in the form of whole of Punjab and Bengal would have made Pakistan a better and stronger country.
That would have also, most likely, avoided the mass killing at partition.
I blame Congress for not letting that happen. 
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
bangalies don't see Jinnah as a respectable person at all. Infact they despise him...... they see him as someone who usurped the leadership of the muslim league which was initiated by bengalies. The biggest objection/reason for their hatred for Jinnah is the declaration of Urdu as national language......the cite the students' protests against that move as the real commencement of their war of liberation........which culminated in 71.
To sum it up....bengalies don't like to associate with anything pakistani..(i am talking about the ones who are born as bangladeshis).....older folks do sometime reminisce about the 'pakistan era'......
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
^ Okay that seems to be a lot of exaggeration regarding Jinnah.
Jinnah was a leader for several years before 1947.
That would have given a lot of time to Bengalis to think about Pakistan.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
robin/robindro ghosh himself is a bengali hindu. but i wouldn't go so far as to say pakistan loves its minorities - when you legally deny them equality with the majority, there isn't much love possible.
and i don't understand when you say pakistan should have had the whole of punjab and bengal/assam, unless you are suggesting a secular muslim majority country - assuming for a minute you could come up with a national identity of some form outside of islam to hold such a diverse nation-state together - but this wouldn't be acceptable by even the majority on this forum.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
What do you mean?
Do you have any basis to conclude that they still love him? Any piece of writing or commentary that you may be able to refer?
Because meeting them, talking to them, reading the newspapers and OP-EDs.......thats what i concluded......perhaps you can refer to me some other source which would indicate a contrary stance to the one mentioned in my previous post.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
robin/robindro ghosh himself is a bengali hindu. but i wouldn't go so far as to say pakistan loves its minorities - when you legally deny them equality with the majority, there isn't much love possible.
and i don't understand when you say pakistan should have had the whole of punjab and bengal/assam, unless you are suggesting a secular muslim majority country - assuming for a minute you could come up with a national identity of some form outside of islam to hold such a diverse nation-state together - but this wouldn't be acceptable by even the majority on this forum.
I'll have to check the facts but I think the constitution gives minorities equal rights.
Save, I believe, that they can't be head of state.
The initial idea for partition of India was for two states, one comprising Hindu majority provinces and one comprising Muslim majority provinces.
And yes, with a large non-Muslim minority in Punjab and Bengal, Pakistan would have to be some sort of a secular state for it to work practically.
Just like India but with reverse demographic parity.
It would not have been an exclusively 99% Muslim state as it became with the carving of Punjab and Bengal on demand of Congress.
The idea of Pakistan was to create a separate state for at least a part of the large Muslim minority of India;
so that they would not be a perpetual minority in a modern (1-person, 1-vote) democratic India, after independence.
This, after Jinnah realized that Hindu-Muslim unity was not working out and that United India would leave
Muslims as a large minority in India dominated by the large Hindu majority.
Re: Bangladesh Victory Day
Do Pakistani's commemorate contribution of Husyn Shaeed Surhawardy, who was first general commanding spearheading the cause of Pakistan with blood of his bengalis, the other question is, does present day Pakistanis remember the overall bengali contribution at all?
Even present day bengalis love there Robindranoth Tagore more that Allama Iqbal, and I have learned from my indian bengalis friend about greatness of Kazi Nazrul Islam.
Incidentally, Bongobandhu, Sheikh Mujibur Rahmon is the most popular bengali of all times, according to surveys conducted in both sides of border.
Line of divide in Punjabis is 1000 times more deeper than that of Bengalis :)
We have roads named after suhrwardy and nazimuddin among others. Can you expect a road named after Jinnah in Bangladesh?
As for Sindh and Punjab, the minority population was not very high to begin with. The minorities were more educated, land owners and generally in the power structure like the upper class muslims from UP or Punjab etc that migrated to Pakistan and populated the city of Karachi.