Who are baloch people and did they have a province of their own before Pakistan?
Re: Baloch
I think they link themselves with Arabs (with Hazrat Hamza- RA to be specific). The current Balochistan included many states which remained independent of other parts like Makran, Qallat, etc
Re: Baloch
I had a class fellow from Jhelum and he was a Baloch. According to him if all the Baloch people/tribes scattered through out the country are counted they could have the biggest population. It makes sense as only Sindh alone constitutes around 50 % Baloch's.
Re: Baloch
I think they link themselves with Arabs (with Hazrat Hamza- RA to be specific). The current Balochistan included many states which remained independent of other parts like Makran, Qallat, etc
So there was no independent Balochistan? What about the period when Baloch's ruled over Sindh?
Re: Baloch
So there was no independent Balochistan? What about the period when Baloch's ruled over Sindh?
I think There was no Baloch rule (in entirety) over Sindh in any period. Baloch population in Sindh migrated during 16-17th century during Rind- Lashari war at the time of Chakar e Azam. KalhoRa may be considered as Balochs, but when the KalhoRa dynasty ruled Sindh during 18th century, the Baloch population was mingled with people of Sindh and they didn't have separate Baloch identity.
Re: Baloch
^ what about talpurs, aren't they baloch?
Re: Baloch
Kalhora dynasty: Domes and debris | DAWN.COM
Located 15 km east of Daulatpur town in Nawabshah district is the historical necropolis named after Mian Noor Muhammad who ruled Sindh for over 35 years (1719-1753). The Kalhora dynasty (1681-1783) produced four powerful rulers namely, Mian Nasir Muhammad, Mian Yar Muhammad, Mian Noor Muhammad and Mian Ghulam Shah.
In 1767, the Afghan monarch Ahmed Shah Abdali gave the regions of Dera Ghazi Khan and Dera Ismail Khan to Mian Ghulam Shah who succeeded by his son Mian Sarfraz and crushed the local rebellion in the region. Mian Ghulam Shah attacked the Kutch twice in 1762 and 1764 and captured the regions of Basta Bander and Kot Lakhpat which was later returned to Rao of Kutch.
Mian Ghulam Shah’s father Mian Noor Muhammad was a wise ruler. He had canals dug all over Sindh to irrigate the barren land. Many tribes came from Punjab and Balochistan to serve him and in return they were bestowed with jagirs. He built many tombs and mosques in Sindh while arts and crafts also flourished during his reign.
Although several tombs of the Kalhora period are crumbling brick by brick, the most prominent tomb in the graveyard is that of Mian Noor Muhammad Kalhoro. Conservationists and nature have together played havoc with this impressive tomb. The disintegrating portions of his tomb have been whitewashed for urgent renovation thus damaging the original beauty of the structure. Further damage done to the tomb is the use of undressed stone which does not match with the original dressed stone.
The mosque, a three-domed structure near the main entrance of the tomb also lies in a deplorable condition. All the domes have caved in and the bricks have fallen thus exposing the mud which was once hidden beneath the bricks.
The tomb of Rajo Leikhi, a minister of Mian Noor Muhammad also lies in a crumbling condition. The dome of the tomb caved in two decades ago thus exposing the murals to sunlight and rain. Paying more attention to surveys and conferences than actual conservation of these structures, the concerned authorities have not yet restored it.
The torrential rain that lashed the districts of Nawabshah, Sanghar and Badin last year damaged many historical structures in these districts. Many domes in the graveyard of Mian Noor Muhammad collapsed while others caved in. The domes of Mian Fazal Ali Kalhoro and Mian Khudadad Khan Kalhoro’s tombs have also collapsed thus damaging the graves inside. The rubble of both the tombs still lies inside the damaged structures and no conservation plan is in order yet.
A portion of the southern wall of the courtyard of the graveyard of Mian Noor Muhammad also collapsed in the rain. This wall needs immediate restoration because the six tombs inside the wall enclosure of Mian Noor Muhammad Kalhoro are open to vandals. Recently, the octagonal tomb of Qaim Khan Korai, a minister of Mian Noor Muhammad has also been vandalised on the eastern side. Originally the tomb having no archway was closed from all sides.
The tomb of Mian Gulan, the wife of Mian Noor Muhammad lies to the west of the tomb of Mian Noor Muhammad. The dome of the tomb built on a rectangular plan is partially collapsed. It has beautiful floral and geometric designs which have lost past glory due to erosion.
The tombs of Adho Khan and Budho Khan are also falling to pieces with cracks developing in the domes. Rainwater seepage has damaged the murals.
Likewise, the tomb of Atta Taib who was a physician of Mian Noor Muhammad and the tomb of Shahdad who was a noble in the court of Mian Noor Muhammad also lies in a dilapidated condition.
The concerned authorities should immediately reconstruct the collapsed wall of Mian Noor Muhammad Kalhoro’s mausoleum before the remaining portion of wall caves in and the debris should be cleared. All the collapsed domes should be restored and serious steps should be taken to stop vandalism.
The writer is a research anthropologist
Re: Baloch
Baloch people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Baloch or Baluch (Balochi:بلوچ) are a tribal society and an ethnic group who are native to the Balochistan region in the Iranian plateau in Southwest Asia.
The Baloch people mainly speak Balochi. Balochi language is a branch of the Iranian languages, and more specifically of the Northwestern Iranian languages, that is Kurdish and other Iranic languages of the region. It also contains archaic features reminiscent of Old Persian and Avestan.[10] They inhabit mountainous terrains and deserts, and maintain a very distinct cultural identity. The Baloch-speaking population worldwide is estimated to be in the range of 10 to 15 million. However, the exact number of Baloch and those who are or claim to be of Baloch ancestry is difficult to determine. Most of Baloches in Punjab speak the Seraiki language.
It is possible that there are more Baloch than simply those who claim Balochi as their mother tongue. This, however, raises the question as to who is and is not a Baloch, as many surrounding peoples claim to be of Baloch descent but do not speak Balochi. The Brahui, having lived in proximity to the Baloch, have absorbed substantial linguistic and genetic admixture from the Baloch and in many cases are indistinguishable. Despite very few cultural differences from the Baloch, the Brahui are still regarded as a separate group on account of language difference.
The higher population figures for the Baloch may only be possible if a large number of “Baloch” are included who speak different languages like Saraiki, Sindhi, Punjabi and Brahui, and who often claim descent from Baloch ancestors. Many Baloch outside of Balochistan are also bilingual or of mixed ancestry due to their proximity to other ethnic groups, including the Sindhis, Brahui, Persians, Seraikis and Pashtuns. A large number of Baloch have been migrating to or living in provinces adjacent to Balochistan for centuries. Balochs make up 2% of Iran’s population (1.5 million), there are many Baloch living in other parts of the world, with the bulk living in the GCC countries of the Persian Gulf.
About 60% percent of the Baluch live in East Balochistan, a western province in the Pakistan.[11] Around 25% percent inhabit the eastern province of Sistan and Baluchestan Province in the Islamic Republic of Iran, 35 to 40% Pakistani Sindhis claim Baloch ancestry[citation needed] and are settled in Sindh and also a significant number of Baloch people in South Punjab of Pakistan. Many of the rest live in Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Bahrain, Kuwait, India, United Arab Emirates and in some parts of Africa, namely Kenya, and Tanzania (Tabora has a large community). Small communities of Baluch people also live in Europe particularly Sweden, Norway, Denmark, England and in Perth, Australia, where they arrived in the 19th century.[citation needed]
My brother met a baloch who is living in in india....
He told that ibrahim alehi salam is their ancestor
Re: Baloch
^Yes, but am trying to find some historical reference. They seem to have Iranian and Arab roots. Baloch areas were the first to come under Islamic rule in Hazrat Usman's rule (RA) I believe.
Re: Baloch
Interesting Makran was conquered in Hazrat Umar (RA)rule.
Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Re-conquest of Makran (Pakistan)
Makran was conquered during the reign of Umar, in 644, when three columns were sent by three different routes under the command of Hakam ibn Amr, Shahab ibn Makharaq and Abdullah ibn Utban. At the western bank of the Indus River they defeated the Hindu king of Sindh, Raja Rasil. Umar ordered them to consolidate their position on the western bank of the Indus River and not to cross it.[SUP][3]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
During the reign of Caliph Uthman, Makran broke into revolt along with other Persian dominions. Uthman sent his commander, Ubaidhullah ibn Ma’ mar Tamini, to re-conquer Makran, along with other adjoining areas of Persia. In 650, the army under his command conquered it after series of skirmishes, however no pitched battles were fought.[SUP][4]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Ubaidullah ibn Ma’mar was made the first governor of the Makran region. Later he was given the governorship of another Persian region and was replaced, first by Umair ibn Usman ibn Saeed, and then Saeed ibn Qandir Qarshi, who remained governor until Caliph Uthman died.[SUP][5]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
edit]Conquest of Baluchistan (Pakistan)
In the 7th century, what is now the Balochistan province of Pakistan, was divided into two main regions, its south-western parts were part of the Kermān Province of the Persian Empire and the north-eastern region was part of the Persian province of Sistan. The southern region was included in Makran.
In early 644, Umar sent Suhail ibn Adi from Bosra to conquer the Kermān Province of Iran; of which he was made governor. From Kermān he entered western Balochistan and conquered the region near the Persian frontiers.[SUP][6]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP] South-western Balochistan was conquered during the campaign in Sistan the same year.
During Caliph Uthman’s reign in 652, Balochistan was re-conquered during the campaign against the revolt in Kermān, under the command of Majasha ibn Masood. It was the first time that western Balochistan had come directly under the Laws of Caliphate and it paid an agricultural tribute.[SUP][7]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP] In those days western Balochistan was included in the dominion of Kermān. In 654, Abdulrehman ibn Samrah was made governor of Sistan and an army was sent under him to crush the revolt in Zarang, which is now in southern Afghanistan. After conquering Zarang a column moved northward to conquer areas up to Kabul and Ghazni in the Hindu Kush mountains. At the same time another column moved towards the Quetta District in the north-western part of Balochistan and conquered an area up to the ancient city of Dawar and Qanzabil.[SUP][8]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP] By 654, the whole of what is now the Balochistan province of Pakistan was under the rule of the Rashidun Empire, except for the well-defended mountain town of QaiQan (now Kalat), which was conquered during Caliph Ali’s reign.[SUP][9]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Abdulrehman ibn Samrah made Zaranj his provincial capital and remained governor of these conquered areas from 654 to 656, until Uthman was murdered.
edit]Campaign in Sindh (Pakistan)
The province of Sistan was the largest province of the Persian Empire, its frontiers extending from Sindh in the east, to Balkh (Afghanistan) in the northeast.[SUP][10]](Military campaigns under Caliph Uthman - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The Islamic conquest of some parts of Sindh was extension of the campaign to conquer the Persian Empire in 643, by sending seven armies from seven different routes, to different parts of empire.
Re: Baloch
As per latest research, many castes in Sindh have wrongly associated them with Baloch origin. Ayaz Bhagat in his book about tribes and castes of Sindh criticised earlier researcher including Dr Nabi Bux Baloch. In his words, Dr Nabi Bux Baloch’s glasses got ‘Baloch number’ and he sees every Non-Baloch as Baloch. He also discuss the difference between Baroch and Baloch, which have been considered as same by earlier researchers.
Re: Baloch
As per latest research, many castes in Sindh have wrongly associated them with Baloch origin. Ayaz Bhagat in his book about tribes and castes of Sindh criticised earlier researcher including Dr Nabi Bux Baloch. In his words, Dr Nabi Bux Baloch's glasses got 'Baloch number' and he sees every Non-Baloch as Baloch. He also discuss the difference between Baroch and Baloch, which have been considered as same by earlier researchers.
Interesting point. Whats the difference between Baloch and Baroch?
I have felt that there is a lot of interaction between Sindhis and Baloch's, particularly due to the geography. What are the major castes of Sindh?
Re: Baloch
^ thanks, there seems to be some relationship between Baloch and Kurds as well. Its interesting how far they have spread, as you can find them in UAE as well as Oman. Gwadar used to be with Oman when Pakistan was formed, therefore the Baloch there have dual nationalities.
Re: Baloch
yes i read that oman have significant baloch population...
Re: Baloch
Muqqawee have we got a thread on chaakar e azam
Re: Baloch
Interesting point. Whats the difference between Baloch and Baroch?
I have felt that there is a lot of interaction between Sindhis and Baloch's, particularly due to the geography. What are the major castes of Sindh?
I've just put my hands on the book last night, its a voluminous work (above 1000 pages).
Generally Baroch living in Kirthar range of Sindh are considered as those migrated from Balochistan. Ayaz Bhaghat proves otherwise. He says that Sindhi tribes are normally recognised due to their geographic location. Like LaaRi, Thari, Kohistani, Kachhai (all behind the names LaaR. Thar,Kohistan, Kaachho, etc). so Baroch is not the variant of Baloch. Baloch (Bal = strengh like kas bal, loch = chest), Baloch = chest power / front power. These people were first resistance to the invaders entering in Sindh and therefore got title of Baloch / Baroch and they were present in Sindh even at the time of Persian and Arab conquest.
Re: Baloch
yes we have that in history and one in culture about Hani Shah Murid (Shah Murid was a sardar in Chakar Khan’s court)
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/indo-pak-history/536564-armour-of-baloch-hero-chakar-e-azam.html
PTV Quetta had a serial on life of Chakar e Azam
Chakar-e-Azam Drama : Part 01 - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZbIxyWZlI)
Re: Baloch
I've just put my hands on the book last night, its a voluminous work (above 1000 pages).
Generally Baroch living in Kirthar range of Sindh are considered as those migrated from Balochistan. Ayaz Bhaghat proves otherwise. He says that Sindhi tribes are normally recognised due to their geographic location. Like LaaRi, Thari, Kohistani, Kachhai (all behind the names LaaR. Thar,Kohistan, Kaachho, etc). so Baroch is not the variant of Baloch. Baloch (Bal = strengh like kas bal, loch = chest), Baloch = chest power / front power. These people were first resistance to the invaders entering in Sindh and therefore got title of Baloch / Baroch and they were present in Sindh even at the time of Persian and Arab conquest.
Whats the name of the book.
Go through the book it would take some time for you to read it all. :)