So all you lot well versed in Islam, please explain.. On one hand it says in the Qur’aan that Allah is the guardian of the Qur’aan and on the other (naoozobillah) he couldn’t stop a goat from eating his verses..
I don’t mean to be offensive, I’m a devote Muslim but if Islam is Haq it shouldn’t have any loop holes like I’ve found in Christianity/Judaism and the Eastern religions..
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai? 
Is this really a quote from Al-Bukhari and do Muslims (Sunni’s atleast) belive that a goat ate a part of the Qur’aan?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Ever heard of Huffaz CCB?
There were many of them and they tallied each and every word every day in front of the Holy Prophet :saw:…
Even if the goat ate the whole Quran, the Quran was protected in the hearts and minds of Muslims in its perfect entirety…
Infact, the Ahl-e-Suffa’s main function was to memorize each and every verse and almost every Ahl-e-Suffa was a Hafiz…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
As clear as mud.. All that is irrelevant..
Either the quote I found is not from Bukhari, Bukhari is a compilation of lies, Umar is a liar or the Qur’aan is incomplete, unless of course you can find me the Qur’aani verses regarding stoning and “Rezah Kabir” (whatever that is).
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Lajawab, are you saying that people had memorized this verse and everyone knew it was a revelation?
In that case, why wasn’t it just included in the collection - the first Abu Bakr (s) compiled paper copy of the Quran?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
^^
Because during the life of the Holy Prophet :saw:, many already revealed Ayahs and Surahs were abrogated, meaning they were replaced with something better…
There are many commands which were abrogated for many reasons…
Look at Salat…They were 50 before the Holy Prophet :saw: kept asking Allah :swt: to keep reducing them until they remained only 5…Which proves that Allah :swt: is indeed most merciful and understanding of His creatures needs and was willing to accomodate them for whatever reason He sees best…
This Ayah, the Ayah of Rajm and Rezah Kabir were definitely there when the Holy Prophet (saw) was alive…And most certainly they were abrogated…If they were not abrogated during the time of the Holy Prophet :saw: that certainly would have been a pickle for the Muslims of that time…
Note, that the Hadith doesn’t imply anyplace if it was to be included, rejected, accepted, enforced in Islam e.t.c…It just mentions that they were under the pillow and the goat ate them…No mention of any inquiry as to what was written or what the verse was supposed to be is made…
And keep in mind, people memorized first and then wrote it down…So it’s not like if some verses end up missing and it’s OK…Thousands and thousands of Muslims and hundreds of Huffaz would not have treated this matter so lightly…
If the goat ate them, good for her…Allah :swt: meant to fill the stomach of that goat with abrogated verses…
This Hadith just mentions a couple of abrogated Ayahs being eaten by a goat…It’s a non-issue…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
If you don’t mind, I’d like to get things clear.
Are you saying this verse which perscribes stoning for adultery was an abrogated verse?
If that is the case, then why does sharia follow it?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Lajawab, what do you mean “abrogated”? Are you seriously suggesting that there were ayats of the Quran that were revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) that are no longer part of the Quran?
You mentioned about number of salah per day being decreased, but that was not different vahis that were being abrogated, but were communications during me’raj, so its like comparing apples to oranges.
There are instances where an earlier ayat talks about some thing in a mild manner, and a later ayat more forcefully provides a definite ruling. For example, at one time that ayat was revealed not to go near salah when in the state of khumar (drunkeness). This can be implied to mean that drinking wine is fine, as long as you don’t offer prayers while being drunk. A later ayat then said that drinking is najas and to completely prohibit it. But that doesn’t mean that the earlier ayat is cancelled and is not part of Quran anymore.
Infact, it is the belief of almost all muslims I know, that Quran that we read today is exactly the same, word to word, and complete as it was revealed to the messanger. Not a word is altered or added or taken out. Not a word.
At one time I did hear stories that some shias think that about 10 chapters of the Quran were eaten by a goat and that those chapters talked about Hazrat Ali (Peace be upon him) is the next prophet or khalifa. I never actually discussed this issue with a shia or to confirm this belief. Its clearly not something that is accepted by mainstream muslims.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Shariah follows that because Shariah follows Quran AND Sunnah…
The abrogated verses are of three types:
(Read the last type)
[C&P]
**1. Abrogation of the recited verse together with the legal ruling:
Aisha
SAHIH MUSLIM
It had been revealed in the Qur’an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah’s Apostle (peace be upon him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Qur’an (and recited by the Muslims).
2. Abrogation of the legal ruling without the recited verse:
Surah: 33. Ahzab Ayah: 50 50. O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts who migrated (from Mecca) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her this only for thee and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess in order that there should be no difficulty for Thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.
3. Abrogation of the recited verse without with the legal ruling:
Abdullah ibn Abbas
SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
… Umar sat on the pulpit and when the summoners for the prayer had finished their announcement, Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, 'Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say… Allah sent Muhammad (peace be upon him) with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him. Among that which Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of a married person (male or female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we recited this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him.
I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, ‘By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah’s Book.’ and thus they will go astray by abandoning an obligation which Allah has revealed. The punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted on any married person (male or female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse provided the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession…**
In this case we follow the ruling of the third type…Meaning, although the verse was abrogated, Sunnah dictates that this punishment was carried out by the Holy Prophet :saw: on just 5 people…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Faisal:
2:106 Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Right but do you know the meaning of abrogation? It means to cancel or annul something.
So if you’re saying that the verse was abrogated by Divine Intention when the goat ate it, then we’re not supposed to follow it anymore. That means that if the Prophet did use the verse on 5 people, then it wasn’t meant to be used anymore after that.
I’m REALLY confused now.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it.
This ayah proves that if the verse the Goat ate was to be abrogated, then there would have followed a verse better than or like it. So was there such a follow-up verse on adultery’s punishment?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
I looked up pages 209 and 210 Volume 8 in Sahih Al-Bukhari and the hadiths don’t match. The hadiths that I found in the hard copy of Sahih Al-Bukhari are #s 6366, 6367, 6368, 6369, and 6370.
They have absolutely nothing to do with what has been quoted in the intial post.
Quran has been completely and fully revealed and reserved and Allah (SWT) has taken the gurantee to protect it.
In addition to that, to the best of my knowledge, the belief of goat eating a part or some pages of the Quran is alien to Ahl ul Sunnah wal Jamaah. However, from word of mouth I’ve heard another sect holds such beliefs.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Please answer clearly and carefully. Are you suggesting that there are verses revealed to the Prophet, to be part of the Quran, that are no longer part of the Quran? Yes or no.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
^^
Shariah = Quran + Sunnah
Quran doesn’t mention how to pray…
Quran doesn’t mention how to make Wudu…
Quran doesn’t mention how to zabiha an animal…
And about 50 other things that are not mentioned in the Quran…So, when we combine the Quran and Sunnah, we have the complete picture of Islam…Hence the Shariah…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Lajawab, I am not sure who are you answering above. I didn’t ask about ahadeeth or what constitutes sharia. I asked a simple yes or no question.
By the way, here are the translations of 2:106 by Yusuf Ali and Pikthal. Do you even know the context of this revelation, by any chance?
002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
PCG and Faisal:
I will not venture further lest I say something wrong in my ignorance…I have written all that my knowledge permitted…
For further details you will have to talk to your respective Imams about which Ayahs and Surahs were abrogated and replaced…
And be kind enough to share that knowledge with an ignorant like me…
Wallah-o-Alam to all that I have written…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
I think your initial posts gave a very wrong impression.
As long as you were saying that it doesn’t matter whether written pieces of ayats are eaten by goats (either literally or figuratively) because the original words of the Quran are completely and accurately preserved by the huffaaz in their hearts (Arabs were known to have amazing memories and Quran was revealed in their own language), I was with you. Its also clear that there were certain ayats and rulings that were more clearly explained as time went on (e.g. ruling on al-khumar - wines).
But to the best of my knowledge, I have not heard a single scholar worth his salt to have claimed that the present day Quran is missing ayats that were revealed to be part of the Quran.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Sadiyah thanks for that information. So you’re saying you didn’t find any hadith about a goat eating an ayah? Maybe its there, but under some different number or citation?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Faisal:
Never will I leave my house, but will as soon as it cools down…
Nothing you can do, except change the tire and move on…
None of you is going to leave the house, but empty handed coz I am not giving you a cent…
Don’t tell me I’ll have to explain the construct of the translations too…