Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai? 
You never answered the simple question I asked. All it requires is a Yes/No answer, and we can move forward with the discussion. Asking questions to respond to questions doesn’t get us anywhere. It just wastes time.
Question is: Are you suggesting that there are verses revealed to the Prophet, to be part of the Quran, that are no longer part of the Quran? Yes or no.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
^^
Then you have to wait…I have to enquire (not from Google)…
But I will give you my answer…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Thats fine. Pls do your research and then come back.
Your post above (#6) is extremely confusing, as you were throwing around words like “abrogated”, without defining the word nor establishing the proper context.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Faisal how have u not heard this? I’ve heard it over and over again that the reason why stoning is used and is halaal for adultery, is because its a Quranic verse that was swallowed by a goat, but its a Quranic verse nonetheless.
I thought everyone has heard this (regardless of whether its true or not).
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
PCG, I quickly did a search on the word “goat” online to look up ahadith in Sahih Bukhari. None of them have anything to do with a goat eating Quranic scripture.
Like I mentioned earlier, from what I have heard, it is a belief of another sect, but this is the first time I’m hearing it for Ahl ul Sunnah wal Jamaah. I don’t think Ahl ul Sunnah wal Jamaah holds any such beliefs.
No. Everything that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to be part of the Quran is present in Quran. Nothing has ever been changed or left out from the Quran.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
i m not that religious, so dont eat me,
but i thought that Quran was written on some sort of slab, how can a goat eat it?
remember, i m not good at this religion stuff, its just a question
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Not the whole Quran. Some verses were written on parchment, some on bone, some on hide, etc.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
to all muslims.
It is imperative for us to understand the litmus test for a hadeeth. When something is mentioned being a hadeeth but it clearly contradicts the text of Quran, it is agreed upon by the scholars of all times that such a hadeeth is not word of the prophet:saw: and hence it can never be considered his saying. Such words ought to be classified as fabricated.
Allah:swt: says in Quran:
15:9 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it.
This should suffice for all arguments. Please, have faith in Quran and stop creating fitnah.
(The thread must be locked now!)
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
You know, I could have sworn when we’ve had discussions on adultery here before, that the stoning punishment has been upheld by this hadith. But if the hadith SAYS that a Quranic verse has been eaten up, and if that’s what you guys are saying cannot be because it would contradict the Quran…
Then I fail to understand how this hadith actually is applied…
And here we have a guppan saying she can’t even find the hadith!
I’d have to dig up old threads from looong ago, but I swear I remember people quoting that hadith and people talking about this supposed Goat.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai? :smack:
While I pursue this with my Imams, this informative link might be of some help to this matter…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
abrogation is one thing that i have never been able to believe in…
it makes no sense that a verse was revealed and then excluded from the Quran and is no longer part of it…
there are still some verses in the Quran that r abrogated by verses revealed after them, but we still find them ni their respective places in the Quran, they r still very much part of it…
so no reason that a certain verse be removed after abrogation while others left even after being abrogated…
the best i can understand about this “cnofusion” is that hadith qudsi is being confused with Quran…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
I would like to take this opportunity to confirm that this is another one of those nonsensical stuff against shias. The first i heard of it was from a sunni (as per usual) and also informed that the culprit was Hazrat Aysha’s goat. The problem is, if people thought for a second, they’d realise its flawed logic. The Quran had no chapters/suras until around 74 hijri during caliph Abdul Malik ibn Marwaan’s time. So Hazrat Aysha herself was not around at the time, never mind her goat. But still, it was an amusing accusation nonetheless.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Ma Mooli, could it be that another sub-sect of Shias hold such beliefs? I never heard that Aisha’s (RA) goat ate it, but I did hear from a very close friend who has directly heard from a Shia friend that some hold the belief that some of the Quran was eaten by a goat and hence, the present version is incomplete.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Sadiyah, the present version is the complete version for all. More often than not, it always is the case of hearing from a friend of a friend. To my knowledge however, i’ve not come across shia subsects who believe in any of the sort. Perhaps your friend can ask her/his shia mate what subsect they belong to, and on what basis they believe it, if they do?
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
The report about the goat eating the verse is in the following Sunni hadith collections:
– Sunan Ibn Majah (1949)
– Musnad Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (25,754)
– Abu Ya’la’s [d. 307H] Musnad collection (4469)
– al Tabarani’s [d. 360H] Mu’jam al Awsat (8029)
– al Daraqutni’s [d. 385H] Sunan collection (3833)
my untrained eye notices that Muhammad Ibn Ishaq is a common narrator in all their chains of transmission… he is guilty of tadlis (concealment)… here is where i get technical: one who practises tadlis usually uses terms like 'an (on the authority of) or qala (he said) when reporting and this is the term used in four out of the above five cases… that would make these chains of transmission weak… however, the chain recorded in Musnad Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal has him saying haddathani (he reported to me) which on the face of it rules out tadlis and perhaps confirms the report… but it needs more research
in any case, for similar reports on the verse of stoning one should look at:
Sahih al Bukhari (8:817, 9:424.2)
Sahih Muslim (4194)
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Ma Mooli, thanks for the clarification.
gupguppy, thanks for breaking it down for the rest of us.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Is you copy of Sahih Al-Bukhari translated by Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan?
Maybe it’s a different version? My original post is a quote from a Christian site so they might have twisted it I don’t know.
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
I’m not having any of that… Who’s to say the rest of them Ahadeeth (which neither specifically contradict the Qur’aan but nor agree with it) are not forged and unnecessary or wrong?
And don’t start the “Fitnah, fitnah…” rant, if Islam is the truth it will withstand all the allegations and prove them to be false or explain them in satisfactory manner, but all I’ve got so far is random gibberish from Lajawab…
We Muslims are sooo backward because of this sort of narrow minded “shut up and don’t ask any questions” mentality, main to shed Jahannum ke dar se chup ho jaoun lekin kal ko koi Kaafir yehi sawaal uthaaey ga, tab tum loag kiya jawaab do ge? Anyway Allah knows I’m asking these questions not to be rude but to understand Islam better, I want to spread His message to my non-Muslim classmates and colleagues but I want to see it’s worth spreading first, I find it spiritually satisfying and better than any other religion but to a non-Muslim with a highly critical mind that wont be enough… Like I said a divine religion shouldn’t have any contradictions or loopholes, brushing them under the carpet can only go on for so long, it doesn’t mean they’re not there, you’ll have to pull your head out of the sand one day…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
Aap Maula Ali ki qassam kha ke kaho ke aap taqiyya naheen kar rahey..
I’ve also heard about the Shi’ite belief that the Qur’aan is incomplete and that the original version is with the last Imam, Mahdi and that he will bring the proper version or something along those lines…
Re: Bakri Qur’aan khaa gai?
CCB, when you ask a question and someone replies, it is really not a good thing to call it gibberish…
Whatever I wrote, I wrote with what knoweldge I had…
Sorry it sounded gibberish to you…