Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
1 . They have their own power generation system , may be some lump sum deal with WAPDA , so people won't have to face long hours of load shedding .
2 . Its not ''that'' safe , as recently a friend's house got robbed in the day time .
3 . Its a good example showing that things are possible in Pakistan if people really want to have it .
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Bahria town - Awami villas is much cheaper and more affordable - they also enjoy the comforts of security there ... I think this article is a bit slanted ... sometimes a state within a state is needed ...
Here are other examples:
The Vatican (But this is real state)
The Amish in the US
....
In fact ghettos are like inverse of such towns ... People aught to protect their neighbourhoods first and then expand outwards.
We should ask ourselves... How often and for how long does the electricity go out in Bahria town?
The water they receive, is it treated?
The education their children receive, how does it compare to the education in the rest of society?
When these people can call security for every minor irritant, while the majority are held hostage to terrorist's and kidnappers and even police, its hard to justify such a palatial residence when everyone else is suffering.
Personally, I dont know how anyone can live there so comfortably, and with a clean conscience.
Security better be provided to these people. When the miserable masses get even more miserable, these people enjoying comforts others could never even imagine, will be the first victims.
Im not saying they dont have a right to exist. Im only questioning the ethics of such a luxurious existence in a country where many can barely feed themselves.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
^ as long as they are not buying all this 'security', 'basic necessities of life' from haram money, on haram-ly obtained land there is nothing wrong with it. Otherwise everyone in Karachi should throw away the gates/barriers because there are robbers, terrorists in rest of the country where people are either unable to put it because of cost or other reasons.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
^ as long as they are not buying all this 'security', 'basic necessities of life' from haram money, on haram-ly obtained land there is nothing wrong with it. Otherwise everyone in Karachi should throw away the gates/barriers because there are robbers, terrorists in rest of the country where people are either unable to put it because of cost or other reasons.
And thats another point that should be raised. Is the money halal?
I mean, the articles raises some questions. Is it halal for example, that the Military high ups who help procure land (And is that land depriving farmers? and even if it isnt, can it be justfiied considering how many landless peasants there are in Pak for this land to be turned into more luxury housing?), perhaps well in excess of reasonable limits be entitled to plots there?
There are hints of corruption through out. So whether its halal or not, is questionable.
And like the article said, you cant fault people for hiding behind walls, but then again, the elite in Pakistan (India aswell) have always shunned the public and hidden behind fortifications.
The real crime in all this ofcourse, is the neglect of the public. While countless carore have been spent on DHA and kickbacks from Bahria, where is the same being spent on the public good? You can forgive developed countries of having elite neighborhoods and palatial houses because the govt still provides a modicum of development, and so everyone can attain a certain degree of living, but not so in Pakistan...
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
My estimate says that money gained is equivalent to Pakistani foreign loans.How it was divided I could never know.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
And thats another point that should be raised. Is the money halal? I mean, the articles raises some questions. Is it halal for example, that the Military high ups who help procure land (And is that land depriving farmers? and even if it isnt, can it be justfiied considering how many landless peasants there are in Pak for this land to be turned into more luxury housing?), perhaps well in excess of reasonable limits be entitled to plots there? There are hints of corruption through out. So whether its halal or not, is questionable.
Without having concrete proofs or credible information I can't say whether land was acquired halal way or haram way, as for your other comments looks like you are turning into communist here :) or plain jealousy? ... what about these landlords who are occupying 100s/1000s of acres, having their own armies, jails, oppressing small land farmers etc.
And like the article said, you cant fault people for hiding behind walls, but then again, the elite in Pakistan (India aswell) have always shunned the public and hidden behind fortifications.
The real crime in all this ofcourse, is the neglect of the public. While countless carore have been spent on DHA and kickbacks from Bahria, where is the same being spent on the public good? You can forgive developed countries of having elite neighborhoods and palatial houses because the govt still provides a modicum of development, and so everyone can attain a certain degree of living, but not so in Pakistan...
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Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Without having concrete proofs or credible information I can't say whether land was acquired halal way or haram way, as for your other comments looks like you are turning into communist here :) or plain jealousy? ... what about these landlords who are occupying 100s/1000s of acres, having their own armies, jails, oppressing small land farmers etc.
And like the article said, you cant fault people for hiding behind walls, but then again, the elite in Pakistan (India aswell) have always shunned the public and hidden behind fortifications.
The real crime in all this ofcourse, is the neglect of the public. While countless carore have been spent on DHA and kickbacks from Bahria, where is the same being spent on the public good? You can forgive developed countries of having elite neighborhoods and palatial houses because the govt still provides a modicum of development, and so everyone can attain a certain degree of living, but not so in Pakistan...
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Capitalism works on the principle that there is a level playing field. That means there must be regulation. Even Adam Smith acknowledged this. Here there seems to be a case of capitalism gone wrong. Is the playing field actually level in this case? Ideally the only way to finding out is to do an investigation. Unfortunately, those who are tasked with regulating the system and preventing such corruption are themselves involved, Apparently. So all we are left with is speculation.
I wouldn't say I'm jealousies. I would personally find it difficult to live in Pak owing to the degree of poverty. You really need to have some thick skin to live in such splendour when your neighbor is living in such squalor.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Okay that is just ****ed up. No need to defend legalized corruption. The only exception I take to this Bahria town report is that for some reason the Jahil gora thinks Bahria town means it has to be all military. Yes those jobs vacancies are messed up and definitely a problem.
But also that is sadly how business is done in Pakistan. PPP Ministers, MNAs and MPAs do the very same.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Capitalism works on the principle that there is a level playing field. That means there must be regulation. Even Adam Smith acknowledged this. Here there seems to be a case of capitalism gone wrong. Is the playing field actually level in this case? Ideally the only way to finding out is to do an investigation. Unfortunately, those who are tasked with regulating the system and preventing such corruption are themselves involved, Apparently. So all we are left with is speculation.
I wouldn't say I'm jealousies. I would personally find it difficult to live in Pak owing to the degree of poverty. You really need to have some thick skin to live in such splendour when your neighbor is living in such squalor.
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Med911 - Communism = level playing field - all equal.
Capitalism = the best succeed the rest suck. The US is not an level playing field and they are proud of it. Anybody can do anything based on personal talent and will power. And Adam Smith was not supportive of government regulation. That is keyensian economics.
Seriously you will make up any bull****.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
And thats another point that should be raised. Is the money halal?
You're quick to judge aren't you? Not everyone who is rich in Pakistan has procured their money through haram means. Some people have actually worked really hard to make an honest living there.
So does anyone know the percentage of houses in Bahria town that are owned by military personnel?
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Nope. I doubt most of these idiots have never been to Bahria Town let alone to Islamabad. Most of them visit for 2 weeks out of the year when their parents force them to come.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
We should ask ourselves... How often and for how long does the electricity go out in Bahria town?
The water they receive, is it treated?
The education their children receive, how does it compare to the education in the rest of society?
When these people can call security for every minor irritant, while the majority are held hostage to terrorist's and kidnappers and even police, its hard to justify such a palatial residence when everyone else is suffering.
Personally, I dont know how anyone can live there so comfortably, and with a clean conscience.
Security better be provided to these people. When the miserable masses get even more miserable, these people enjoying comforts others could never even imagine, will be the first victims.
Im not saying they dont have a right to exist. Im only questioning the ethics of such a luxurious existence in a country where many can barely feed themselves.
Peace Med911
I don't think it is blameworthy ... throughout all of the towns there are gated sections and onsite generators or personal ones, which have communal high security this is just a whole a town set-up that way ... districts seems to be quite autonomous in Pakistan and people are doing what they can for their own communities - they should not sacrifice their own safety for the safety of the community outside this betrays reason ... however they should help to work with outside communities to help them enable themselves ... i.e. they should not be insular.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Capitalism works on the principle that there is a level playing field. That means there must be regulation. Even Adam Smith acknowledged this. Here there seems to be a case of capitalism gone wrong. Is the playing field actually level in this case? Ideally the only way to finding out is to do an investigation. Unfortunately, those who are tasked with regulating the system and preventing such corruption are themselves involved, Apparently. So all we are left with is speculation.
I wouldn't say I'm jealousies. I would personally find it difficult to live in Pak owing to the degree of poverty. You really need to have some thick skin to live in such splendour when your neighbor is living in such squalor.
Med911 - Communism = level playing fieuld - all equal.
Capitalism = the best succeed the rest suck. The US is not an level playing field and they are proud of it. Anybody can do anything based on personal talent and will power. And Adam Smith was not supportive of government regulation. That is keyensian economics.
Seriously you will make up any bull****.
[/QUOTE]
No reason to be rude.
I don't think u know what capitalism is. Tell me, why is insider trading illegal in the US? I will tell u, because its people with an unfair advantage, using insider information to make money at the expense of those who don't. That's where the level playing field comes in.
In communism there is no playing field at all, and there are no players. This is simple stuff my friend.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
You're quick to judge aren't you? Not everyone who is rich in Pakistan has procured their money through haram means. Some people have actually worked really hard to make an honest living there.
So does anyone know the percentage of houses in Bahria town that are owned by military personnel?
Where did I say that? Your so defensive of this Bharia town, your making things up... if corruption is involved, don't u think its the responsibility of the govt to investigate? I mean atleast in principle.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Nope. I doubt most of these idiots have never been to Bahria Town let alone to Islamabad. Most of them visit for 2 weeks out of the year when their parents force them to come.
What a joke! Its laughable that your so offended by people critisizing Bahria town... I mean are you on their payroll? And what would you care if people visit? I should remind you its thanks to foreign remittance from non resident Pakistanis like me and others that helps keep the basket case economy afloat.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Peace Med911
I don't think it is blameworthy ... throughout all of the towns there are gated sections and onsite generators or personal ones, which have communal high security this is just a whole a town set-up that way ... districts seems to be quite autonomous in Pakistan and people are doing what they can for their own communities - they should not sacrifice their own safety for the safety of the community outside this betrays reason ... however they should help to work with outside communities to help them enable themselves ... i.e. they should not be insular.
What blameworthy is only the allegations of corruption. Example, the land granted to the Bharia people at such a scale, at such low prices, the kick backs, the loss of agricultural land. The fact that considering there are so many landless people, the land given to Bharia could be far better used if given to poor farmers. It only the allegations of corruption involved in all this that warrants red flags.
I have no objection to them living in gated communities. Thats not the point. My objection to such a lifestyle is an ethical and moral one, not a legal one.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Where did I say that? Your so defensive of this Bharia town, your making things up... if corruption is involved, don't u think its the responsibility of the govt to investigate? I mean atleast in principle.
The government should investigate on lower levels of corruption? lol that just made me laugh.
You just come off as very aggressive about some of the things you say. This is why I was curious about the percentage of houses belonging to the military people, I somehow think it's a far smaller ratio than it's made out to be.
It's kind of harsh to call all of them immoral if they have nicer or more protected homes than the average Pakistani. How can you tell that they're not already playing their part, giving charity etc while maintaining a lifestyle that they might have really worked hard for.
The corrupt people I get though. You're sort of just hating on all rich people in general.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Hope you can enjoy this.
Malik Riaz and son yet to be arrested in 1401-kanal land scam …](Redirect Notice)
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
Med911 - Communism = level playing fieuld - all equal. Capitalism = the best succeed the rest suck. The US is not an level playing field and they are proud of it. Anybody can do anything based on personal talent and will power. And Adam Smith was not supportive of government regulation. That is keyensian economics.
Seriously you will make up any bull****.
No reason to be rude.
I don't think u know what capitalism is. Tell me, why is insider trading illegal in the US? I will tell u, because its people with an unfair advantage, using insider information to make money at the expense of those who don't. That's where the level playing field comes in.
In communism there is no playing field at all, and there are no players. This is simple stuff my friend.
[/QUOTE]
Considering you are confusing government regulation with capitalism I highly doubt you understand anything related to the matter. You just make stuff up on a regular basis and I call you on it.
Re: Bahria Town: Pakistan gated community sparks controversy
More capitalistic a society is, less regulated economy it must have.
That's that and lets return to Bahria Town :P