Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
yara PTV shows khabarnama, khabroona, and KHABRAN (in hindko) and its spoken in areas other than hazara. you can find it all the way from pindi to kohat.
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
oh i'm sure afghan forums won't even be interested in pashto threads most of them speak dari anywayz.. and if u think punjabis think of them selves as superior over yall .. thats the same way farsiwaan's feel . Actually most of them think that most pashtoons living there are quite backward minded and what not.. but yeah i dont think, that they do ! I really don;t care anymore because people will always have something against you weather u are a pashtoon punjabi or karachite.. whatever, i'm really over this punjabi pashtoon karachiete thing.. but yeah u guys can continue your debate caz i didn't bother reading the same stuff over and over :P
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
It's nice to see you proud of your language, we don't look down on Hindko/Punjabi people, we live side by side with them, they're our brothers but the ones who are ashamed of their culture are ones we can't respect. Hindko dialect is liked by Pashtuns, even if it's not our language we speak it when talking to Punjabis or Urduwaans.
Fair enough if your opnion is that you're seprate from Punjabis but from what I've seen the only difference is your region is part of NWFP instead of Punjab province, we all have difference of opnion, these are not life/death issues, there's more to worry about in life.
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
Hindko is a distinctive language..just because there is no sense of awareness about it doesn't make it any less a language (after all there was no sense of a Pakhtun idenitity till the 17th century). That Pashtun tribes that settled in that region are rapidly learning hindko doesn't mean they should be ashamed of the fact they are of pashtun descent. Ethnicity as a rule is not solely defined by language it has multiple factors ..language, geography and national identity/culture all make an ethnic unit. The same applies to the general Mohajir populace..they had no sense of collective identity..till the early 1980's, before that it was an obsession with Pakistan. And again the same applies to (Pakistani) Punjabis because they had a Pakistani identity which they felt comfortable in ..so till quite recently there was no sense of a Punjabi identity..
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
I am short-listing this post for my 'best of the year' list.
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
yes zakk nice to see
you always have open minded constructive comments
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
zakk,
are you married? i need to find someone for my sister in law. you're so nice.
(ab dekhna kitnay jawaab aatay hain)
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
Look Bibi, net is not the best place for finding rishtas. 
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
Aahha, this discussion turned this way!
Let me express my disageement with Zakk!
As for as Pashtun ethnic identity is concerned, it was there before 17th Century, probably since the end of 1st millinuim CE. It was further consolidated by the gigantic migrations of kindered tribes during 13th and 14th centuries from the valleys around Helmand-River and its tributories, which had been devastated by the attacks of Mongols. During that process, probably, these tribes criss-crossed and developed a common code of life they call "Pashtunwali" now.
Pashtun national consciousness started taking shape towards the end of 16th Century, when Ba-yazid Ansari began Roshniya Movement, ostensibly a religious movement but covertly pursuing the political objective of uniting Pashtun tribes against Mughals. Interestingly, Ba-Yazid himself was a member of Baraki or Barki tribe that had not yet been fully assimilated in Pashtuns but was in the process of assimilation.
Ethnic consciousness is somethinmg passive and apolitical whereas National consciousness is something active, broad, and (politically) manifested.
Identity is not a rigid concept to be exclusively defined by language alone. It is sense of affiliation that is more crucial. And sense of affiliation is a voluntary feeling. So, although, Hindko speaking people (many of whom are Pashtuns by descent) living with Pashtuns are part of Pashtun nation still they have the right to self-definition/determination and promotion of their culture and language. The converse is also true i.e. they may have a consciousness of a distinct identity, still may have the feelings of unity with Pashtuns in the sense of values, politics, and social structure, norms, and traditions which any rational individual will understand and concede to.
Nations are not a question of inferiority or supriority. Nations and group identities are needed for collective and individual survival and self-assertion.
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
Probably, this discussion turned soar because I responded to Blitzkreig. Actually, he was being consistently provactive so much so that he didn't spare even Zakk, a nice, non-controversial, and gentleman person.
Why should someone use words like "akhrotzai", "pathanzai", etc. for someone with no apparent reasons whatsoever?
Anyhow, I'll edit my posts.
Re: Rahmaan Baba..Poet of the Pukhtuns
Madam it is time for you to get out of the closet. Education and decency is not confined to Karachi only. Although, we didn't have the opportunity to settle in Karachi and "totally grab" the economic opportunity there neither we had the three or four centuries of comparative peace (voilently invaded by two superpowers -British Empire & Soveit Unuion- in 20st Century and now by another in 21st Century), and our strength and unity were fragmented by divisions like Durand Line, still we've fared well.
Any person with a fair mind should at least admit our abilities and zeal to survive and assert ourselves in education, sports, skills and engineering, entertainment, and politiks, etc.
Just imagine if invasions of the same scale had occured in Karachi!
As for dramabazi, when we and our leaders were waging struggle against dictatorship (Abdul Samad Khan Achakzai, Wali Khan, Khan Abdul Ghafar Khan, etc. were in prison for decades) and for democracy and people right, some people, as a community, were bed-fellows with authoritarianism and were following the radical, pro-establishment Akhwani ideology of Jumaath Islami. They were also providing "intellecual fuel" to such ideologies.
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
Backward or forward, they've been throughout the known history and they will be in future also (Inshallah). No one can ignore them easily! The reason is, their pride doesn't grow and shrink with the expansion and contraction of their purses. Poor of wealthy, he'll defend his right to say, act, and practice what he wants to.
Re: Rahmaan Baba..Poet of the Pukhtuns
Any person with a fair mind should at least admit our abilities and zeal to survive and assert ourselves in education, sports, skills and engineering, entertainment, and politiks, etc.
Just imagine if invasions of the same scale had occured in Karachi!
As for dramabazi, when we and our leaders were waging struggle against dictatorship (Abdul Samad Khan Achakzai, Wali Khan, Khan Abdul Ghafar Khan, etc. were in prison for decades) and for democracy and people right, some people, as a community, were bed-fellows with authoritarianism and were following the radical, pro-establishment Akhwani ideology of Jumaath Islami. They were also providing "intellecual fuel" to such ideologies.
When was NWFP "invaded" by the soviets and the british (british controlled all of india so all people were in the same boat to speak).
IT wasn't Zakk but actually pashtun fascists like you who conviniently "fail" to see hwo much they have been in bed with the punjabi establishment be it in the army or thru taliban recently, pay no taxes and whine about all services (so typical especially in FATA) and still ***** about the deal with Pakistan!
TO all your madeup pashtunistan crap, let me tell what AYub Khan had to say about it;
One time in the sixties, one reporter asked ayub what will happen with pashtunistan and he laughed along with his junior officers and said, "Look at me and my officers. They are all pashtuns. We get everything we want. NOw who would want to mess up such a deal?".
Akhrotzai is a generalization. It is still much better than you coming and slandering someone's mother for no reason (which by the way happens in your jirga run communities as the case few months ago when a girl in nowshera was paraded naked).
It is you and your backward cultures that are beghairat (put a price on everything) not anyone else!
If they were backward, then they would be stuck in a downward spiral NOT YOU!
Re: Rahmaan Baba..Poet of the Pukhtuns
IT wasn't Zakk but actually pashtun fascists like you who conviniently "fail" to see hwo much they have been in bed with the punjabi establishment be it in the army or thru taliban recently, pay no taxes and whine about all services (so typical especially in FATA) and still ***** about the deal with Pakistan!
TO all your madeup pashtunistan crap, let me tell what AYub Khan had to say about it;
One time in the sixties, one reporter asked ayub what will happen with pashtunistan and he laughed along with his junior officers and said, "Look at me and my officers. They are all pashtuns. We get everything we want. NOw who would want to mess up such a deal?".
Akhrotzai is a generalization. It is still much better than you coming and slandering someone's mother for no reason (which by the way happens in your jirga run communities as the case few months ago when a girl in nowshera was paraded naked).
It is you and your backward cultures that are beghairat (put a price on everything) not anyone else! If they were backward, then they would be stuck in a downward spiral NOT YOU!
I hope you wouldn't loose patience also that you claim to be *civilized. *
I wonder what infuriarates you so much to make you resort to mis-statements and use of inappropriate language! Anyhow, facts cannot be overshadowed with such language.
One should at least honest.
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
^ I am honest hence I said that one good thing about Wali Khan was he was good on his principles!
Akhrotzai (actually someone invented the term on gupshup :D) is just telling pathans to broaden their minds and think progressive instead of being reactionary fools.
People need to grow a brain for a change!
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
LOTD..I have no disagreement with most of your above comments..my only point is there is a difference between a national consciousness taking shape and it’s actual advent..as far as Pashtuns are concerned the event is probably Ahmad Shah’s advent to power through a loya jirga. There may have been ethnic expressions and national ones prior to that but it’s actual cohesive formation was at that moment.
Hindko speakers have not had a particular moment as a trigger, the closest I have seen was when the Pakhtunkhwa resolution was passed and there were protests calling for a Hazara province if the renaming went ahead. Ethnic and national identity are not static events as I am sure you realise. Every people have their own time and place. The concept of a Mohajir idenity may have had it’s initial seeds in the 1960’s Presidential election ..but it took amost 20 years before it expressed itself in the more xenophobic form of the MQM (Now its fast merging with the sindhi concept ..the way it should have been in the beginning)
The eventual result of whats going on in NWFP is simple..the hindko speakers in Peshawar, Kohat and Nowshera are fast integrating with the pashtun community..the reverse is happening east of the Indus where pashtuns are fast merging with a hindko idenity.
notallthere: No I’m not married lol 
Faruk: alaka Rishtay khalaq har waqt jorolay shay so don’t be jealous 
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
zakk,
my sister in law is very pretty you know...
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
now now this is not nisab people?!! ;)
Re: Rahmaan Baba..Poet of the Pukhtuns
stop living in the past! because you do not know whats instore for the future
dhaalkhorchapatisingh:cb:
Re: Background of pakhtun - split from thread
From what I know so far, this half "pathan" and "punjabi" I spoke to tells me she speaks hindko and someother language called Seraiki. Anyhow she would tell me how blah blah blah n punjabi this n pathan that..I told her simply straight up..shut the fruckk up you paki. she not only badmouthed pathans but she had the hindu natures of pakistanis today..the ones who have a complex towards pathans in pakistan. Her brother decided to get involved so I decided to teach him a lesson, in the end he ended up with a few scars that will never go away. Point is > DONT FLUCK WITH US.