Baahir ki larkiyan

Lifestyle Relationships
21

Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Its just clash of cultures nothing else.. As an outsider I dont hold the Pakistani culture in the best view, infact I enjoy every opportunity to trash it up, I dislike it so much ..

Similarly, I guess Pakistani rooted people think of us the same ! They trash us too ..

Perhaps its because both sides are unknown to each other's cultural values and assume alot of things about each other. that is why perhaps its best that when finding a partner for marriage , one sticks closest to the like minded people ..

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Well, you can't find out everything about someone. And even if you have been dating for some time, it's still an adjustment when you start living together.
And why do people assume that just because a person was raised here, they must be very open minded and must want to take control of their life? As I mentioned my family is more on the conservative side. I'd be lucky if I get to meet the person (in absence of family) more than once or twice.

I agree but not all families think this is the best approach. Some believe if you give "kids" a chance to talk, they will either get too attached which will create problems in case things don't go well between parents. Or they will find out too much about each other and decline the proposal based on petty issues.

No, it wasn't like that. Their family is in Pakistan and to date, we haven't met in person. My relatives went to see the guy and we spoke on the phone. For some reason, we really clicked and after some time, his family formally asked for rishta and it was agreed that we will do nikah instead of engagement (because sponsorship takes 2+ years). But a few months later, his family started giving us red flags and when we parents called to discuss nikah plans, they basically said no (and not in a nice way).
So the time wastage was more after the "haan" and to date, we are confused as to what their issues were, why they didn't discuss anything, and why they backed out.

I didn't say there aren't very many educated guys. What I said was, a lot of guys aren't very educated and the ones who are, they are too westernized or too stuck up.
A lot of the times, a mutual friend would inquire with my mom and it's a no right away because the guy studied up to college or undergrad only. Won't you agree that the guy should be more educated/ambitious career-wise, compared to the girl?
I don't know. Maybe we are not approaching it the right way. Like my parents aren't very social. As for me, I would like to be able to go out more, but I work and go home. And weekends are reserved for house chores and family time. So where am I supposed to meet someone?

lol the nick was inspired by nadz. She is pure entertainment.

Thank you! I hope so.

Yar, Pakistan main bhi bohut achi achi families hain. Some of my cousins back home got married over the last couple years and they managed to find very decent, highly educated, financially well, and cultured families. The reason my parents are a bit hesitant about finding someone here is because they say it is very hard to do the background search here, because everybody minds their own business and no one knows what's really going. In comparison, in Pakistan, everyone is up in everyone's business and it is relatively easier to verify certain details about the guy and his family.
A friend of mine here got married to someone from here and later found out he was already married to a "gori" and her nikah was annulled. She was pregnant at the time, and had to abort the child. Not to mention all the heartache she went through. The guy's family wanted their next generation to be desi so they didn't approve of his first marriage and hid the info from my friend. Cases like these are really scary!

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Well, you can't find out everything about someone. And even if you have been dating for some time, it's still an adjustment when you start living together.
And why do people assume that just because a person was raised here, they must be very open minded and must want to take control of their life? As I mentioned my family is more on the conservative side. I'd be lucky if I get to meet the person (in absence of family) more than once or twice.

I agree but not all families think this is the best approach. Some believe if you give "kids" a chance to talk, they will either get too attached which will create problems in case things don't go well between parents. Or they will find out too much about each other and decline the proposal based on petty issues.

No, it wasn't like that. Their family is in Pakistan and to date, we haven't met in person. My relatives went to see the guy and we spoke on the phone. For some reason, we (me and him) really clicked and after some time, his family formally asked for rishta and it was agreed that we will do nikah instead of engagement (because sponsorship takes 2+ years). But a few months later, his family started giving us red flags and when my parents called to discuss nikah plans, they basically said no (and not in a nice way).
So the time wastage was more after the "haan" and to date, we are confused as to what their issues were, why they didn't discuss anything, and why they backed out.

I didn't say there aren't very many educated guys. What I said was, a lot of guys aren't very educated and the ones who are, they are too westernized or too stuck up.
A lot of the times, a mutual friend would inquire with my mom and it's a no right away because the guy studied up to college or undergrad only. Won't you agree that the guy should be more educated/ambitious career-wise, compared to the girl?
I don't know. Maybe we are not approaching it the right way. Like my parents aren't very social. As for me, I would like to be able to go out more, but I work and go home. And weekends are reserved for house chores and family time. So where am I supposed to meet someone?

lol the nick was inspired by nadz. She is pure entertainment.

Thank you! I hope so.

Yar, Pakistan main bhi bohut achi achi families hain. Some of my cousins back home got married over the last couple years and they managed to find very decent, highly educated, financially well, and cultured families. The reason my parents are a bit hesitant about finding someone here is because they say it is very hard to do the background search here, because everybody minds their own business and no one knows what's really going. In comparison, in Pakistan, everyone is up in everyone's business and it is relatively easier to verify certain details about the guy and his family.
A friend of mine here got married to someone from here and later found out he was already married to a "gori" and her nikah was annulled. She was pregnant at the time, and had to abort the child. Not to mention all the heartache she went through. The guy's family wanted their next generation to be desi so they didn't approve of his first marriage and hid the info from my friend. Cases like these are really scary!

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

^ agreed that any cases like that are scary for anyone. but sketchy people are going to be found everywhere like that, you will get your fair share in both canada and pak forsure.

i understand the situation now with that rishta you gave as an example of. it happens. it happened to one of my cousins where my khalas family spent months talking with a family, the girls family was also more conservative to let the two kids talk themselves but because my cousin got a good vibe from the girl when they met a couple of times with their families, he didn't demand too much of wanting to get to know her more than she was comfortable with. talks even started about potentially starting talks for an engagement and then all of a sudden the girls family backed out of the rishta with out saying anything and we found out she was getting engaged to someone else a couple of weeks later. i think the girls family was talking to more than one family which is fine, but they lead my khalas family to believe they were exclusive and serious for her son. that was the first time in my family, that the parents had been so involved and it turned out like that, so that approach hasnt really worked in our family. i guess thats why its hard for me to understand conservative famillies, even when their kids dont demand a little bit of say. especially because it seems like you wouldnt mind having some say in it, then i think theres nothing wrong with wanting that for yourself. its not taking full control but just having an equal amount of decision making power since it will be you spending the rest of your life with this person. i guess thats the way i see it.

i dont think you should look hope and it doesn't necessarily mean that you or your family is doing anything wrong either, its hard to meet people, let alone judge them based on a couple of meetings if whether or not they are right for you. i am surprised that where you live everyone minds their own business! hahah having lived in three major canadian cities, and family spread through out the country, its the opposite from what i have seen, everyone knows everything! but in terms of meeting people, has your mom tried approaching aunties that do match making and that rishta stuff in the communities? one of my husbands friends was introduced to his wife that way, theres an aunty that does rishtas in our community here in the states..maybe its worth a shot?

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

That’s sexist. Why should the guy have to settle with someone less ambitious every time?:confused:

Didn’t know undergrad wasn’t enough education:o.

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

No, realist but not sexist. I am not saying it **should **be this way but in our culture, it usually is the norm. Once you have kids, the girl is expected to take care of them, whether she is a working woman or not. So in that sense it’s important for the guy to be more ambitious in career.

LOL depends what you do with the undergrad.
But in most desi families, if the girl is, let’s say, a doctor, her parents are not going to marry her off to a truck driver with a masters or a store manager with a BBA.

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Exactly, same here. The rishte waali aunty who suggested this proposal later informed us that his mom had also approached a few other matchmakers and was actively looking for, how do you say, "khoob se khoob-tar" (in her case, the richer the better). He got married 3 months after his family backed out. It was a big surprise for my family too.

haha, I know what you are saying. Mera ishaara kisi aur taraf tha. Let's suppose the family is religious and their "pakistaniat" is apparent...for example, their kids wear desi clothes at social events, attend jummah prayer, etc. BUT if you were to see the same kids in college/uni you wouldn't be able to call them Muslim, let alone Pakistani. So, for rishta purposes, if you went around asking in the neighbourhood what kind of family it is, everyone would sing their praises (assuming people in the community are nice and friendly) because that's what they know from their limited interaction with the kids. By comparison, in Pakistan, agar bachay "kharaab" ho jaate hain, you have a better chance of finding this out from the college/uni or workplace.
At least that's what my parents believe. Baaqi jin logon ko hera-pheri karni hoti hai, woh kahin bhi hon kisi na kisi tareeqay se dhoka dene main kamyaab ho jaate hain.
Hopefully, Allah bure logon se bachaaye. iA

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Okay, you're right. Can't disagree.

I was just messing with you.
On a serious note, if you do import someone from Pakistan, he might have trouble finding a job over there and he might end up working as a truck driver or a store manager.

[QUOTE]

in Pakistan, agar bachay "kharaab" ho jaate hain, you have a better chance of finding this out from the college/uni or workplace.
[/QUOTE]

And I'll have to be more careful at work from now on. Hai!

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Just a small observation I made based on your posts in this thread:

You have a problem with people in Pakistan having pre-conceived notions about "baahir ki larkiyan" and I agree with you on that.

However at the same time YOU have pre-conceived notions about "baahir ke larke". Don't you find that odd?

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

I'm not quite sure what type of crowd you and your parents come across in Canada...but here in the U.S., I know plenty of of men who have a BBA only and make over $100K a year in professional jobs (finance, marketing, consulting, IT etc.). No one is asking you to marry a truck driver or a gas station worker. But you (and your parents) need to focus on what job the guy has rather than basing your entire decision on the degree itself. And btw, I actually knew several women doctors who're married to men who have "only" BBA's or MBA's or JD's......and the men all have professional jobs with a six-figure income.

Saeed also brought up a good point: If you import someone from Pakistan.......what makes you so sure that he'll find a "respectable", well-paying job in Canada without a problem?

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Assuming everything else about the guy and his family is acceptable, and he has a stable job with an income that can provide you with the lifestyle you expect....then I think its absolutely riduculous for you to reject a guy ONLY b/c he didn't study beyond undergrad.

Well you're certainly not going to meet your future husband inside your own house! I don't know much about Canada so someone can correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't there a good sized desi community where you live? Isn't there a masjid or other desi events held there? What is preventing your parents from becoming more social? You guys can't go to the masjid or other desi events as a family?

What is preventing you from going out at least once a week so the masjid or other desi and/or Islamic events? You don't have any Pakistani female friends who you can go out with even once a week to places where you can be seen and have a chance to meet new people to expand your network?

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

why do so many girls and their parents have this issue with educational standing?
why must he guy have a bigger and better degree than she does?
as long as he is gainfully employed and able to support a family.......that's all that should be important.
having a bigger and better degree doesn't necessarily mean a better job nowadays.....

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

hehe no no, maybe it came across that way. I was strictly speaking about the few experiences I've had here. I believe in getting to know someone first and then forming an opinion about them. Maybe it's just my luck, I either get weird questions from guys or their moms about whether or not I wear western dresses and how short they are (when sitting down), or I get those families who don't see a problem in drinking casually and assume that because I went to business school and work in a corporate place, I would be okay with this.

True, there are no guarantees. A few of my family friends' daughters sponsored their husband but no one upgraded their studies here so now they are unfortunately stuck doing work that they might have considered to be beneath them back home.
And even if the guy has Canadian education background and currently working in a good post, there is no guarantee that it will always stay that way. Layoffs are so common in North America, and it sometimes takes a really long time to find work again. Also, sometimes circumstances are such that people want to move around (maybe go to Pakistan for a few years) etc. It really depends on what's in your kismat. Apni taraf se tu har koi ache ki hi khwahish karta hai.

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Well, because in most cases, there is a direct correlation between educational background and job prospects.
Like I said before, it depends on what you do with the degree.
I don't want a PhD or a lawyer/doctor. Just looking for someone normal. Education is one of the main considerations but it isn't the only one.

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Right. So based on what you wrote above.....please explain why you believe it was a wise decision to reject Canadian rishtas suggested by mutual friends simply "because the guy studied up to college or undergrad only"?

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Yar, it's not so easy to meet people. In my social circle, everyone's kids are younger. I don't live in Mississauga or Scarborough where there is an influx of desis. I did however try going to iftaar events during Ramadan with a two-fold purpose, but I am very shy. I would never approach a guy and strike up a conversation. And I would probably make a fool of myself if a guy were to approach me.

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

Ah, you are on my case :D
Desi guys (some, not all) are intimidated if their wife is very educated and they get insecure easily. Believe it or not, but this family that I wrote about, that guy has a masters but he once said to me 'when I come to Canada, I will probably start a business (because don't want to upgrade my studies) and even though in business one can potentially make a lot of money, I would still have just a "pakistani degree" and I don't want to be defined by my wife's credentials.' One of the reasons why they backed out is because I was apparently too educated for them, and ideally they wanted a girl who would work till like 3pm then come home, clean the house, have dinner ready for hubby when he comes back, and take very good care of herself. Kind of like an all-rounder. With my schedule, sometimes I work till 7 and I am not sure how well I will manage my household. Only time will tell.

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

I never said it was easy to meet people. But it does require effort. Going out to a few iftaar parties at Ramadan isn't enough. You need to continue going out on a regular basis and put an effort to develop relationships the rest of the year too. Still haven't explained why your parents can't be more social....especially since they want to try to find a rishta for you. And I don't expect you to go up to guys in desi events. All you need to do is meet as many women as you can in the desi community. Almost all of the single desi men have moms, sisters, khalas, "aunties" etc. trying to find them a wife.

The above and the rest of the explanation doesn't answer my question. The guy in your original story was born/bred in Pakistan so his views shouldn't come as big surprise to you. And yes, I agree that SOME guys do feel insecure in this sense.

My question was how do you or your parents know that the CANADIAN guys you rejected felt this way? How was it a wise idea to reject those rishtas right away simply b/c they guy only had an undergrad?

You ASSUMED certain things about those Canadian guys and rejected them right away. And that guy in Pakistan ASSUMED certain things about you and rejected you (heck at least he took the time to talk to you!). Don't you find it a bit hypocritical for you and your family to make all these assumptions about men in Canada.......yet be surprised/upset that men in Pakistan have their own assumptions about you and your family? Ever heard of the saying what goes around comes around?

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

its true.....we all have our own biases
and we all look at each other's biases and consider them wrong but all this time we fail to look in the mirror and recognize the same faults within ourselves......

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Re: Baahir ki larkiyan

why not expand your search to USA?