**and what do u think jaawan is doing . i know u salafi, u are the paid agent too. tell me this, how much do the saudis pay u for propagating wahabi religion?in riyals?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
**
NO one pays us nothing…we are agent of allah and YOU ARE AGENT OF SHEITAAN the ebleeeeees…we will rest until you go to hell…with your devil friends and ancestors…and your hindu rituals go with you in hell. AMeen.
Muslim786 you are finised i call upon you to come to islam and FOLLOW QURAN AND ONLY QURAN AND SUNNAH OF MOHAMMAD and leave the religion of your ancestors and hindus rituals
Muslim786 you are finised i call upon you to come to islam and FOLLOW QURAN AND ONLY QURAN AND SUNNAH OF MOHAMMAD and leave the religion of your ancestors and hindus rituals
Muslim786 you are finised i call upon you to come to islam and FOLLOW QURAN AND ONLY QURAN AND SUNNAH OF MOHAMMAD and leave the religion of your ancestors and hindus rituals
I have done my job…trying to persuade you that real islam is QURAN and ONLY QURAN and SUNNAH of mohammad(pbuh) and leave your religion of your ancestors and hindu rituals…and stop creating new things in islam…creatiing new things in islam is bidd’ah and every bid’ah is dalala and every dalala is going to hell.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Good LUCK in hell.
Jaawan
till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid
Wise Man says:>What I say won’t really change anything, but what you say doesn’t really matter!
Jawan, Do u get paid in Riyals or dollars? Well, its the same thing because Saudis kiss the American feet and Ask for help from America when Iraq attacks them. When Iraq attacked the wahabis of Kuwait and Saudia Arabia, those Wahabis went running towards America and asked for help saying "Ya-America madad". The wahabi hypocracy and double-standard can be seen here when they do not allow us to say "ya-rasool-allah (s.a.w) madad" but they can say "Ya-America madad". What kinda double-standard policy of Wahabis is that?
Muslim786.
Jawan! Jawan! where are u? Your father Abdul Aziz just called from the graveyard and asked for u.
i know u salafi, u are the paid agent too. tell me this, how much do the saudis pay u for propagating wahabi religion?in riyals?<<
is this all your 18 year Al-Azhar nourished brain managed to put together in refutation, the same standard crap every jahil ignorant barelvi comes out with after being left dumb-struck. What did you study at Al-Azhar, How to clean toilets? This is what happens when the truth is put against the falsehood, it smashes it's brains out.
You really have got no shame have you. Even after being exposed of lying against Allah, you carry on with the same ravings & rantings.
If u want me to get angry Salafi (Saudi paid agent), then u are not successful. Well, we had some Wahabis like u deputed to clean the toilets (in reference to your post)
Let's get back to debate and enough of this Diversion & Noise!
Abdul Malick had these questions and I am equally interested in seeing these answered:
Posted earlier by abdul malick:
Beginning of Quote:
Salam dear brothers & sisters in Islam,
To Zakkariah,
Why did you disappear last time after posting anti-shia propaganda?
I am glad that you can recite the prophet's name with respect but that is a sham just like your creed is a sham!
1) But tell me what is prophet(saw) to the wahabis? The wahabis call the prophet a 'mere ordinary man' whose duty was to deliver the message. They forbid the muslims to even ask for the Prophet's blessings!
Tell us how do the wahabis see the Prophet (saw)? What does the Prophet (saw) mean to the wahabis?
2) Who is your Religious Authority in Islam? We have Caliph & Imams. Do wahabis believe in Religious Authority?
3) With whose Authority do you - a wahabi talk to the faithfuls about "Bida'h"? Who is a HERETIC to call the 4 sunni madhabs the greatest bida'h?
4) We have answered the "bowing to the grave question' more than several` times.
Tell me - Is the kalima, with alllegiance to Prophet, make it a shirk? We do associate the Prophet's name along with Allah in the Kalima. Is the Kalima then SHIRK?
4)Then accordingly if the hadiths cannot be corroborated/verified with the Quran would make the hadiths - Bida't ! Tell me Are the Hadiths a bida't?
5) Back to the question about Religious Authority in Islam as ordained by the Quran. With whose Authority did the wahabis destroy the tombs & properties of the Prophet's (saw) household?
6) With whose Authority do they call the 4 sunni Imams "ENEMIES OF ISLAM"?
7) With whose Authority do they condem the Ahl as sunnah with destruction and say they - the Ahl As Sunnah can be killed ?
8) With whose Authority do you claim to follow quran & sunnah when all you follow is the hadith of Imam Hanbali and your teachings are based on heresy of abdul wahab?
9) Tell me With whose Authority do you decline that the Prophet (saw) had the Light of Allah? Do the wahabis believe in Noor -e- Muhammadi?
Tell me what is the meaning of Religious Authority in the Quran for you wahabis?
end of Quote!
RESULTS:
1) So far, bg has explained that the wahabis reject the Quranic notions of Khilaphate or Imammate. According to bg, any king can be the Caliph. This of course being a reference to the King of Saudia?
2) Re:Noor-e-Muhammadi:
bg equates Noor as soul and says that is in each of us!
Malik has pointed out to bg his own understanding of our Prophet and compared them to the wahabiyya treatment of our prophet(saw).
Malik has also pointed out the significance of the Prophet's geneology and Quraish ancestry.
No answers to rest of the 9 questions raised.
Could we request our followers of abdul wahab to answer these questions raised!
Thank you!
faceup, abdul malik:
You're not getting your answers! The wahabis do not have any! In its place you will hear jawaan make Noise about Quran & Sunnah and so-called Grave worshipping by all muslims.
1) Your questions on Khilafat /Imammat is heart of quran & islam! So, these so-called followers should have the answer. Right?
Jawaan - consult your wahabi alim and answer the question why the wahabi REJECT the Khilfa as mentioned in the Quran?
ANSWER: So, their King of Saudia can become Khalifa!
NOTE: After the destruction of the Osman Khilafat in which the wahabis conspired with the British, the wahabis tried to become the Caliph which was rejected.
OBSERVE: The Caliph had one of the wahabiyya king declared 'kafir' and beheaded for his Fitna against Islam and refused a muslim burial. Later these same Wahabiyyas wanted to become Caliph of Islam!
OBSERVE: Instead of answers, Jawaan & Co. will post stuff about how all muslims are grave worshippers and do bida't this and bida't that!
It works when the majority of muslims are ignorant, poor and do not have access to information.
2) The Wahabis claim that Rasoolillahi (saw) was a 'mere' man and REJECT any concept of NOOR of Allah in him or any other Ahrahamic prophets!
NOTE: The wahabis have demolished numerous monuments related to Prophet's relatives. This is how they instruct muslims should remember the Prophet(saw):
i)It is forbidden in the religion of Wahhabism to stand in front of the Prophet's shrine with an attitude of respect to say salat and salam as your grandfathers used to do.
ii)You must not stand in front of the shrine, but walk away and say only, 'As-salamu 'ala Muhammad,' while passing by.
iii) According to the ijtihad of wahabi imam Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, this much respect is sufficient for the Prophet
OBSERVE: The wahabis reject any special status to the Abrahamic prophets like the Noor of Allah because this association with the Quraish - the lineage from Abraham, would preclude the wahabis from assuming Khilafat of Islam.
If prophet Muhammed (saw) and his caliphs/Imams are not from his Quraish/Abrahamic household then you make Islam into a "mere" belief as well.
3) If you have managed to read this far then this question: Do the Wahabis really follow Quran & Sunnah?
NOTE: The wahabi creed was formed 200 years ago based on the teachings of one abdul wahab who was influenced by the writings of Ibn Taymiyyah. Their claim to follow Quran & Sunnah is a song & dance only!
The wahabis call reading the quran a bida'at just like mawlid of our prophet. If reading of quran is a bida't then what's with this claim of following quran?
Now about following sunnah! Did the prophet instruct ummah to follow his 'way' or way of Allah.
OBSERVE: One of the prophet's hadith clearly forbids the writing of his sunnah. Even this hadith has made it to the sunnah. A hadith that forbids the writing of the Sunnah is in the Sunnah!
The Prophet mission was spiritual! Based on this spiritual connection, most muslims have followed the prophet's observances of the faith. And, this is appropriate!
The wahabis would like to impose the 7th century ways of Arabia (NOT the Prophet) on issues about women, non-muslims, jehad, charity, sex, slaves, etc. This is reflected heavily in the wahabis dominated countries/areas like Saudia, Afghanistan & Paktoonwah!
4) The wahabis propaganda is based on :
Desire of muslims for unity;
all muslims are grave worshippers.
The wahabis skillfully exploit these two points.
FACT: the wahabis have caused irrepairable harm to the unity of ummah and ruined the image of Islam.
OBSERVE:The wahabis in their zeal to propagate their creed resort to:
i) merciless attacks on the beliefs of others;
ii) engage on takfeering or threats of fatwa. Do you know how many ulemas have been 'bribed' into accepting the wahabiyya way?
Do the wahabis have any answers to the above?
Do the wahabis think that History will forgive them?
Maybe they think they[wahabis] can 'buy out' any or everything!
Logical
Thanks for you long illogical answer about Islam.
Spritual, Noor all you got these words without any logic. Islam is not a spritual religion its practical.
What is Wahabi? There is nobody here Wahabi. We are the true Muslims follow Islam in its true sprit by following Holy Quran and Sunnah.
We don't like to ask for help other than Allah S.W.T.
We don't go to Pirs, or Aulias or Qutubs mazars to get our problems solved or ask for prosperity. We do it the right way by asking directly from our creator Allah S.W.T.
In India, Pakistan these Pirs and all Mazar owners get rich because of you. Mazars are the source of Prostition, Drugs business, and the people who don't do anything else except living on your money.
Good post by faceup and logical May Allah bless u in the sadqa of Prophet (s.a.w) and his family(r.a).
**One more point I'd like to add to the discussion here and that is:
"These wahabis were totally against the creation of Pakistan and remained against it for a long time (e.g: mufti mehmood , the father of Maulana Fazlrurrehman was against the creation of Pakistan). Now when the time is here to eat the fruits they come yelling Islam is in Danger! Islam is in Danger!. What a double-standard policy."
May Allah protect all Muslims from the Wahabi fitna and also save Pakistan. Aámeen.
I am literally "crying" while typing these lines.
Wassalam,
Muslim786
Thank you, bg, for letting us - the grave worshippers know, what Islam is about:
bg[wahabi] explains:
"Islam is not a spiritual religion its practical."
Readers should read this gem again!
bg: Religion is all about spirituality.
I guess wahabism is not about spirituality. Then your statement makes sense! Wahabism is about how long to grow the beard; kidnap & forcibly marry females; call murder of kafirs a jehad; how to piss, etc.
Is the wahabis creed "PRACTICAL" the way it is practised & what it stands for. Check out Saudia & Afghanistan for this practicality that bg talks about. He is 100% correct there is ZERO spirituality in Saudia & Afghanistan.
I guess it is practical for wahabis to have demolished & desecrated holy sites of Islam.
It is practical to have trampled upon holy quran and massacred hundreds of thousands of muslims upon their takeover of Saudia 200 years ago.
It is very practical to do the above and still attempt to call iself muslims! Tell me could ahmedias do the above and get away with it?
Even after the above, bg still says:
"What is Wahabi? There is nobody here Wahabi. We are the true Muslims follow Islam in its true sprit by following Holy Quran and Sunnah."
[al-Baqarah 2:8] And of mankind are some who say: We believe in Allah and the Last Day, when they believe not.
[al-Baqarah 2:9] They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.
[al-Baqarah 2:10] In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
Folks - you decide.
MOREOVER,
It is a fact that the wahabi scholars will not attempt responding to questions raised around KHILAFAT and wahabi interpretations of Khilafat as per quran.
The wahabis believe anybody can become a Caliph. Yes Sir! Anybody!(hint, hint; wink, wink).
Here the hadith of the prothet(saaw) when he say: "He who does not give his allegiance to a khaleef or Imam dies a death of jahaliyah."
The wahabi interpret from this hadith that just about 'anybody' can have this status!
It is also a fact that the wahabis will not attempt to answer: why they reject that the Prophet(saw) was a very special person. Instead they denote the prophet as a "mere' man.
All the questions we have put forth have remain unanswered.Instead, the wahabis have responded with accusations that Traditional Islam is all about grave worshipping, bida't & innovations.
Pls refer to clarifications sought and times:
abdulmalick on 8/28 @6:21pm.
faceup on 8/29 @8:25am.
abdulmalick on 8/29 @12:57pm.
faceup on 8/29 @6:46pm.
logical on 8/30 @7:39am.
Also, follow thru the responses provided by the resident wahabis.
And, they [wahabism] who, bg, presents as nothing about 'spirituality' but, the panacea - the answer to all that ails Islam.
OPen your eyes and check out Saudia, Taliban, etc before you get swept away in their madness.
Check out their lies, arrogance and takfeering employed by the wahabis in their persuit to lead the muslims astray!
Logical
Islam is not spritual its logical and practical way of life.
It has nothing to do with Sufism, Grave worshipers, followers of Pirs, Faqeers, Mazars, Kissing tombs, dancing on the graves, Drug addicts as the owner Mazars.
Brothers and sisters get your Free PC to PC software download from http://www.business-generator.com/internet2.htm
Salam brother bg,
I am not here to argue with you because u may be my grandkid's age. I have studied Ilm-fiqah and Ilm-falsafa (philosophy) at Jama-al-azhar for 18 years and I am 50 years old now and A Hafiz.
I totally understand that u may not be extremist wahabi but it is a very dangerous web and they NEVER tell u that u are going away from Islam and coming close to Wahabism. All they do is exploit your religious feelings and misuse them.
I have evidence that Wahabis get paid by the Saudi Govt and other wahabis around the world. I used to be in the management of Jama-Masjid siddique-akbar and I have relatives who are still in the management and though my relatives cant say anything because the weirdos of Sipah Sahaba and Taliban will kill them if they say anything but yes they have evidence that Jama-masjid siddique -akbar, Jama-masjid binnori town, Jama-masjid ahsan-ul-uloom and several others that used to be a place of worship have now all become training fields for the weirdos of Sipah Sahaba/ Salafi/ Wahabis/ Talibans..These wahabis are destroying the young generation of Ahle-sunnat wal-jamaat. May Allah destroy wahabis. Aámeen
Labbaik Ya- Rasool-Allah (s.a.w)
Muslim786
I don't understand one thing in this WHOLE WAHABIS ANTI MUSLIM DISCUSSION ... why are some ppl over here claiming that Wahabis don't give prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) the respect that he truly deserves ... If Wahabis read the Quran, beleive in what Allah says, and hold Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) to be the last and true prophet of Allah then why wouldn't they respect prophet Mohammad ?????? One who respects Allah and his word the Holy Quran isn't the kinda person that I would expect to disrespect Allah's messanger ...
and why are they AGENTS OF THE BRITISH ?? u're saying that Britain would pay Muslims money for practising Islam as it is in the Quran and in the Sunnah of prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) ?? and surely people who practise true Islam most likely aren't the ones who will be corrupted by money ....
This is not to say that only Wahabis practise true Islam .. so do Sunnis ... but the thing is there aren't a lot of TRUE MUSLIMS OR MOMINS these days in the Muslim Ummah .. we should all try to become one ..
btw Why do we have all the names like Wahabis or Sunnis .. we should have one name ie MUSLIM -->"One who submitts to Allah's will" ... If anyone asks me about my religion I'll tell him that I'm MUSLIM .. I won't say that I'm SUNNI or WAHABI etc .. the word MUSLIM speaks for my identity ..
h2so4,
Well, I agree with some of your points but the fact about Wahabis is that "Wahabis are our disguised enemy". They do NOT practice true Islam, because True Islam never tells us to kill innocent people on the streets. Wahabis of Sipah Sahaba killed 23 ahlesunnah ulema and 70 shia doctors just because they did not agree with the Wahabi Fitna. This is not true Islam, this is giving bad name to Islam.
Wassalam,
Muslim786
Our dear friend of the salafiyya - Salafi states the following in the thread:TO MUSLIM786 :
"I am amazed at how jahil and ignorant this faceup/logical guy is.
he said in response to the post of shakir regarding to Ar-Raheeq al-Makhtoom by Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuri.
Good! We are in agreement; but the wahabis believe differently and also<<
this ignaramous will agree with anything as long as he thinks it is anti-wahabi. Do you know who Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuri is and do you know where the above mentioned biography is published? Yep, you'd better start doing some reading up.
Know what i'm talking about? Carry on humiliating yourself."
To: Shakir/littleBoy/Zakariyya/purana/Salafi/etc,
I FULLY intend to!
If the wahabis believe that Muhammed(saw) is from Abraham then future Caliphs/Imams have to be from Muhammed! See the connection!
But the salafis/wahabis reject this connection and claim that anybody can become a Caliph!
A wahabiyya king, after the destruction of the Osman Khilfat in which they had complicity, did attempt to become one and was rejected.
Since you care so much about my humiliating myself then could you respond to the clarifications sought up above. Thank you.
"An Idiot amongst Idiots complementing himself" - annonymous.
[This message has been edited by logical (edited August 30, 2000).]
logical
What is the importance of Caliphs in Islam?
Just the political head of the states. They don't have to come from Mohammad S.A.W. family.
What is Imam?
A person who could lead the prayer. It could be you or me.
Why you guys have to make this simple and practical religion so compicated?
Talking about Noor. Noor is Allah S.W.T. Nobody is Noor.
BG they are ignorent of real islam of QURAN and SUNNAH of Mohammad(pbuh) they are talking from their own made up things and calling it islam.
I suggest you dont debate with these idiots…give them the message and move on.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Muslim and his other ignorent friends, i call upon you to leave the practices of your ancestors and hindu rituals and stop making islam harder and complicated…i call you to come to true islam of QURAN AND NOTHING BUT THE QURAN AND SUNNAH OF MOHAMMAD(pbuh) and stop creating new things in islam because ever newly created thing is Bid’ah and every bid’ah is dalala and every dalala is going to HELL.
May allah open your locked hearts and show you the right true path of QUran and hadith.
Jaawan
till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid
Wise Man says:>What I say won’t really change anything, but what you say doesn’t really matter!
[This message has been edited by Jaawan* (edited August 30, 2000).]
as i said before this logical/faceup guy is a jahil ignorant ignaramous and agrees with anything whatsoever as long as it's anti-wahabi. Here he is trying to prove that he is a follower of the 4 sunni Imaams, but lookat what he stated in the thread are SHARIAH LAWS ANTI ALLAH,
3)I consider only Quran to be for all eternity; while, the Orthodox Islam wants the Quran, all of Sunnah - authenticated or not, the 4 sunni taqlids, and the Sharia laws to be considered "pristine and for all eternity".<<
Try using your brain for a change. Then again it won't make much difference.
wow, it is Jawan's new cut n paste for today brothers. Wow, jawan is getting better everyday in doing cut n paste. Brothers please clap for the weirdo jaawan who spent all nite typing the post he is cutting and paste rite now. Good luck "jawan bin abdul aziz". Abdul aziz ki najaiz aulad=jawan.