there is this family whose parents died in an accident & kids are way to small to take care of themselves … people say its azmaish, but I see it as a zulm … another thing people say is that " har kaam mein Allah ki behtri hoti he" … how come their parents dying can be in kids best interest? …
if a girl get raped then its azmaish for her … but dont you think that as a zulm ?
If God puts you in something difficult then its azmaish but if a person does that then its a sin & zulm? How come?
Putting people in difficult situations & then labeling it as exam & then saying that its somehow “behtar” for them when you can clearly see that its zulm …
I was thinking this just a week ago..and it always bothered me.
Theres a few things you need to keep mind...the question i'm assuming is...why does God let bad things happen? First of all, it is a test for that person...we may not know how...but Allah does. Second, we have the belief that this world is not the end of our destination. For the zulm/azmaish those kids experience in this world...they may be granted the greatest place in heaven. Third, this is a test for people around those who are experiencing the hardship. Allah is always with them/us and He will see how we reacted or treated those less fortunate than us. Do we stand by and click our tongues or open our homes and offer them love and comfort? I hope that helps.
Every human beings are given 'freedom of choice' and its upto that human how to utilize choices. Some utilize in best (positive) way and some other use it worst (negative) way and the worst (negative) usage is man made things which whispered by shaitan who provoked to do so. Have you not read these verses "We have certainly created man in the best of stature; Then We return him to the lowest of the low, Except for those who believe and do righteous deeds, for they will have a reward uninterrupted". [95:4-5-6].
Azmaish can come in the form of zulm. So it could be a test for one while it is an oppression from another. Like the example of the sahaba in the early days of Islam, they were oppressed by the mushrikeen but for them it was a test.
^Ok so in your example of sahaba AS…… while testing someone ,why put someone in a role of an oppressor? …….. just because Allah wants to test someone hence HE will create a oppressor too??? …… then what is the fault of that oppressor ……. Don’t you think he is getting used for testing someone …..
Let me give you another example…..
There are two human beings …. A (male)… B (female) ……. Allah decided to put B in an azmaish …… A raped B ….. so in order to take test from B , A did this thing ….. whats the fault of A then? He got used to put B in azmaish ….. do you think that girl will ever overcome this “azmaish”? No, she will not & there will be consequences for that too …… ok if you say that this is not a test but punishment then what kind of a punishment is this? ……. Who deserves a rape as punishment? ………… see that’s the whole point of creating this thread …… what you see as test, exam & azmaish …. I see it as a zulm ………
& how will you know on this God's green earth that this is not test but punishment ….
it is also given in surah kahf the encounter of hazrat moosa and hazrat khizar
[Kahf 18:66] Moosa said to him, “May I stay with you upon the condition that you will teach me the righteousness that you have been taught?”
[Kahf 18:67] He said, "You will never be able to patiently stay with me.
[Kahf 18:68] “And how will you bear something which your knowledge does not encompass?”
[Kahf 18:69] Said Moosa, “Allah willing, you will soon find me patient and I will not do anything against your instructions.”
[Kahf 18:70] He said, “Therefore if you stay with me, do not ask me about anything until I myself mention it to you.” Section 10
[Kahf 18:71] So they both set out; until when they had boarded the boat, the chosen bondman ruptured the boat; said Moosa, “Did you make a hole in the boat in order to drown its passengers? You have indeed done an evil thing.”
[Kahf 18:72] He said, “Did I not say that you will never be able to patiently stay with me?”
[Kahf 18:73] Said Moosa, “Do not apprehend me upon my forgetting, and do not impose difficulty on me in my task.”
[Kahf 18:74] So they set out again; until when they met a boy, the chosen bondman slew him - Moosa said, “Did you slay an innocent soul not in retribution for another? You have indeed done an extremely evil thing.” PART 16
[Kahf 18:75] He said, “Did I not tell you that you will never be able to patiently stay with me?”
[Kahf 18:76] Said Moosa, “If I ask you anything after this, do not stay with me; indeed your condition from me is fulfilled.”
[Kahf 18:77] So they both set out again; until they came to the people of a dwelling – they asked its people for food - they refused to invite them – then in the village they both found a wall about to collapse, and the chosen bondman straightened it; said Moosa, “If you wished, you could have taken some wages for it!”
[Kahf 18:78] He said, “This is the parting between you and me; I shall now tell you the interpretation of the matters you could not patiently bear.”
[Kahf 18:79] “In respect of the boat - it belonged to the poor people who worked on the river, so I wished to flaw it - and behind them was a king who would capture every sound ship.”
[Kahf 18:80] “And in respect of the boy - his parents were Muslims and we feared that he may incite them to rebellion and disbelief.”
[Kahf 18:81] “So we wished that their Lord may bestow them a child - better, purer and nearer to mercy.” Section 11
[Kahf 18:82] “And in respect of the wall - it belonged to two orphan boys of the city, and beneath it was their treasure, and their father was a virtuous man; therefore your Lord willed that they should reach their maturity and remove their treasure; by the mercy of your Lord; and I have not done this at my own command; this is the interpretation of the matters you could not patiently bear.” (
*Hazrat Khidr was given the knowledge of the hidden - as in all three explanations he gave).)
There's technical stuff in your question that I don't want to get into, but by conducting a quick search on it, I came across this:
I read somewhere that if you face a difficult situation and you see yourself getting closer to Allah swt its azmaish if you instead are getting away from Allah swt its azaab.
This is also what I've heard.
As for the other part of the question, what type of sin deserves any kind of punishment, well that is something that only Allah knows.
there is this family whose parents died in an accident & kids are way to small to take care of themselves ...... people say its azmaish, but I see it as a zulm ........ another thing people say is that " har kaam mein Allah ki behtri hoti he" ....... how come their parents dying can be in kids best interest? ....
if a girl get raped then its azmaish for her ....... but dont you think that as a zulm ?
If God puts you in something difficult then its azmaish but if a person does that then its a sin & zulm? How come?
Putting people in difficult situations & then labeling it as exam & then saying that its somehow "behtar" for them when you can clearly see that its zulm ......
^Ok so in your example of sahaba AS…… while testing someone ,why put someone in a role of an oppressor? …….. just because Allah wants to test someone hence HE will create a oppressor too??? …… then what is the fault of that oppressor ……. Don’t you think he is getting used for testing someone …..
Let me give you another example…..
There are two human beings …. A (male)… B (female) ……. Allah decided to put B in an azmaish …… A raped B ….. so in order to take test from B , A did this thing ….. whats the fault of A then? He got used to put B in azmaish ….. do you think that girl will ever overcome this “azmaish”? No, she will not & there will be consequences for that too …… ok if you say that this is not a test but punishment then what kind of a punishment is this? ……. Who deserves a rape as punishment? ………… see that’s the whole point of creating this thread …… what you see as test, exam & azmaish …. I see it as a zulm ………
& how will you know on this God's green earth that this is not test but punishment ….
Peace bbcd
First of all 'zulm' applies in the sense of 'rights' ... Oppressors do not have rights over us to harm us ... Only our maker has the right to take our lives in any way He wishes ... So we must remember that if Allah (SWT) picks us up and throws into the fire that is not zulm ... That is His Right regardless of what we have done.
let's now look at your story rapist A and victim B ... Yes the victim is in azmaish for her rape, before she was raped rapist A was in azmaish not to rape her ... He failed his test ... And by doing so brought her into her test ... His penalty is with Allah (SWT) and her Mercy is also with Allah (SWT) ... Her situation as a victim earns her sins forgiven. That is if she understands the trial as a trial ...
When a servant distances from Allah (SWT) resulting from an azmaish ... Then that azmaish is a form of punishment, but if it brings the person closer then the same thing is a reward awaiting ... It depends purely on how the person reacts to the situation that determines things ... Not the situation itself ... We bring calamities on ourselves from past wrongs ... It is not the Way of Allah (SWT) to punish us for things we are doing ... But rather the effects we suffer are from our own past wrongs ... and they may affect us or we may as a society affect members within ourselves and possibly remain aloof of it all.
in order to take test of Hazrat Moosa’s patience that person was being used? …. The point is what is the fault of that person who is indeed doing evil things to test some other human being? ….. he will obviously be accountable on the day of judgment for doing these evil things, isn’t it? ….. but why ….. just because Allah wanted to take exam from someone hence the other person will suffer? …… evil is evil no matter what …..So that person was trying to do the right thing …….. but that child didn’t do anything wrong with that person …..
Another thing is if Allah wanted then He would have made that child to follow the right path ….. why make another person slaughter another …… & who gave this right to that person to slaughter anyone out there ….. that kid didn’t do anything wrong to that person … then why? … its haqooq ul ibaad ……
All in all from this story we get that everything happens for the best & there is something good behind everything that happens but why people getting used ? …… its how you see things may be …… just like hazrat moosa AS thought that person is doing evil thing but according to him it wasn’t …
so for the greater good of others, some people are suffering & some are getting used too? … why Allah put people in such a difficult situation where one has to do bad on order to get good for another ? …
bbbcd @ u r not content wd any of answers becoz u already accepted ur views as u wrote initially, so its useless to discuss further examples. First open ur mind n heart to accept from others. Trust ALLAH, if u do believe in HIM.
Hope we all be enlighten. sorry from my end if I hurt u.
So you want to say that Allah is doing "zulm" on his creations??
One should always be content with what ever he has got, this azmaish thing is to give some contentment to us as humans.
If something bad has happened to someone, should we console the affected or put salt to their wounds?
The thing is why Allah letting bad things happen to his creations? ......... we call those bad things as "azmaish" but if you see in a way these things are zulm too like I gave an example in my first post...... how can a bad thing do any good to the other person ??? ..... obviously whatever bad will happen to a particular person will have some consequences too .... isn't it?
Let me try to explain this by giving you an example: 'Suppose you’r in exam hall where you have choice either to cheat or not to cheat. The examiner have right either to stop you right there or let you continue cheating in exam hall. You won’t going to say the examiner that ‘Hello! I’m doing cheating here or I’m going to cheat, you may stop me or not to stop me etc. Anyhow after exams, while giving marks, the examiner will deduct your points in case if you were cheating in class as well as the examiner will deduct marks of that student too, who willingly or unwillingly let you copied (cheat) from his/her exam sheet.’ Now cheating, letting a person to cheat (copy) willingly or unwillingly, is good or bad, you decide. It is understood by every student that the cheating is a bad thing as well as helping other in cheating too. The most important thing is that the exam attender is given a time limit.
Now, lets come to your point. Be neutral and try to understand please. Before you jump towards the victim and justify her position, you may need to understand under what circumstances, the convict convicted the wrong act (doing)?
The Ibless said to Almighty Allah that “by your might, I will surely mislead them all”. So he (the Ibless) will continue misleading human beings till the day of Judgement. So there should be no doubt that what convict done, it is because of the Ibless.
If you read Quran and I hope you do read Quran, Almighty Allah clearly stated that the No. 1 thing which lure men is “Women”, then “Sons” then “wealth” and so on. It is mentioned in a shape of list and top of the most in list is “Women”. To understand better please see below short video clip:
If we fit victim and convict in above example then it would be:
1- Examiner - Almighty Allah
2- Exam Attenders - Male & Female
3- One who was cheating in exam - Male by breaking the rule because of Ibless (prescribed law of Almighty Allah)
4- Helping in cheating either willingly or unwillingly - Female by breaking the rule because of Ibless (prescribed law of Almighty Allah)
5- Marks/points of exams by examiner - Good or bad deed given by Almighty Allah
6- Why to cheat - Because of free will
7- Why letting to cheat - Because of free will
8- Time limit - either to do good or bad.
The thing is why Allah letting bad things happen to his creations? ......... we call those bad things as "azmaish" but if you see in a way these things are zulm too like I gave an example in my first post...... how can a bad thing do any good to the other person ??? ..... obviously whatever bad will happen to a particular person will have some consequences too .... isn't it?
bbbcd, for disbelievers, the notion of 'good' and 'bad' does not exist. do you think they believe in false?
LKK, you have valid points but you try to understand that every thread bbbcd has created here in this forum is based on his understanding of the ‘problem’ of coexistence of free will and predestination. It does not matter you reply him with whatever argument to his any of thread/ post in this forum, his ultimate argument is his understanding of the ‘problem’.
He apparently asks a religious opinion but not actually. rather he is interested in discussing the ‘confusion’ or ‘problem’ said above.