Azmaish or zulm

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Azmaish or zulm

Your question includes a term/word 'good'.

Do you believe good or bad exist objectively?
Since for disbelievers, good and bad does not exist so it is none of their business.

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^ yes, i believe in good & bad ....... thats why I can clearly say that its a bad thing when a woman get raped .....
now you answer my question ....

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Its bad in perspectives of human acts. We are given free will so this is bad thing from one who raped.

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^ So you do agree that it’s a bad act…….. even bad things can’t happen without the will of Allah…… isn’t it? … if they are happening then why don’t Allah just stop them ? ..….. so what you will call it zulm or azmaish ? …..

Free will …… I don’t think we have free will to begin with ….. if we have this discussion then it will be that sceptic thread all over again ……

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Re: Azmaish or zulm

bbbcd:
ONE: In quran suffering is always attached to personal growth. Personal growth is attached to knowing God.
TWO: If you put life after in equation, a momentary dip in life after erase all the memories of good feeling or suffering from a person.
THREE: Know your place in dunya and to God, we are only one small creation who suffer like any other creation, only
since we can chose our act, unlike other creations, we are were given set of instruction. All we can do is be mindful of
this fact and be steadfast not to go astray.

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Re: Azmaish or zulm

what you think carries no weight. I said we have free will, you prove your claim true that free will does not exist.

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^ I did mention sceptic's thread ... didn't I? ...... no one was able to give a single logical answer in that thread ...... you were part of the discussion too if I am not wrong ....... that thread is enough prove that we don't have free will .... I have experienced it , observed it ..... if there is free will then provide me with some logical answer otherwise what you think carries no weight for me either ........

& you didn't answer my question ......

[QUOTE]
So you do agree that it’s a bad act…….. even bad things can’t happen without the will of Allah…… isn’t it? … if they are happening then why don’t Allah just stop them ? ..….. so what you will call it zulm or azmaish ? …..
[/QUOTE]

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Re: Azmaish or zulm

I answered your question that Allah does not do zulm He award us freewill so we are responsible for our acts.

can you quote a single post from that thread which proves freewill does not exist.

this simple bit that we have free will and we are responsible for our actions is so hard to understand? or you pretending to be a naive?

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^ no you didn't answer my question ...... You agreed that a girl getting raped is a bad thing ……. Even bad things can’t happen without Allah’s will ….. right? …….. why Allah let that bad thing happen to that girl ? ….. would you call this thing azmaish or zulm?

I don't have to quote anything from that ... that whole thread is full of proves ......

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kya? :konfused:

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I know that is how you people debate, baseless bakwas. when you people are asked to prove something you resort to crap of circular argument.
bolded part is subject to freewill part. show intellectual honesty, reply logically that how you can prove free will does not exist. Then, I shall more than happy to continue discuss with you.

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^
*But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . ( surah Baqarah 102 ) *

What that means ….that bad things happenings in this world is with Allah’s will …… so even though some particular person is doing something by using his/her free will ( which you say exists) then I don’t see the point of this “free will” when outcome of this free will is same …. Which is Allah ki marzi ….

If you want something ….. you try … you don’t get it … why? ….. Allah’s will…..
Again if you get it then you think you are using free will but actually you are not ….. free will is just an illusion …. We think we choose but actually we don’t ….. end result is always what Allah wants then wahts the point of free will ….. I don’t get it …. having this free will discussion again & again wont help ….

Hota wohi he jo Allah ki marzi he ….. by saying we have free will … you mean everything that is happening is because of humans ….. then why “people like you” jump in & say “ Allah ki marzi ke begair to pata bhi nahi hilta” …… why don’t “ people like you” first decide, ke duniya mein sab kuch Allah ki marzi se ho raha he ya insaano ki ……

I asked about a girl being raped …. you said it’s a bad thing …. then I asked you if its zulm or azmaish? ….. you again didn’t bother to answer my question …. Doing baseless baqwaas wont help you either …. How about you come up with some logical answers too ….. why didn’t Allah stop that girl getting raped? …. Even things like black magic, other evil stuff can’t happen without the will of Allah ( see verse I posted) …… may be that girl 5 waqt ki namazan … naik & shareef …. But this particular incident changed her life drastically …… why Allah let that happen ….. ooohhh yeah because according to you girl getting raped is an act of free will …. Us ke saath aisa hona tha … it was written ….

The Noble Qur'an - Al-Qamar 54:53
And everything, small and big is written (in Al-Lauh Al-Mahfûz already beforehand i.e. before it befalls, or is done by its doer).

Point is no girl deserves a rape either as punishment or exam? …… Allah’s love for us is unconditional ….. then why Allah let that happen ….. don’t tell me that if some girl get raped tu is mein us ki behtri he ….

“Know that if the nation were to gather together to benefit you with something, they would not benefit you except with that which Allah has already recorded for you. If they gather to harm you by something, they would not be able to harm you by anything except what Allah has already recorded against you.” (Recorded in al-Tirmindhi)

Again you can’t benefit anyone without “Allah’s will” & cant harm anyone without “Allah’s will”…. everything is happening in this world is “Allah’s will” ….. then where do free will stands in all this … which we think we have but actually we don’t ….. ho sab kuch Allah ki marzi se hi raha he …..
If that girl got raped …. this harm happened to her cause of Allah’s will …… yeh us ke saath hona hi tha …. this happened to her by “Allah’s will” ….. why ? … now I ask you again …. Is it zulm or azmaish? …..

I don’t get this thing …. whenever something good happens to us we say “Allah ka shukar he” ….. aur jab kuch boora hota he tab ???????? … tab kya ?????……. acha bura sab kuch Allah ki marzi se hi ho raha he ….. sab kuch Allah ki taraf se hi he ...... Simple ( see verse of surah baqrah I posted if you don’t agree) ……

May be we are just fed by our ancestors that acha Allah ki taraf se hota he aur boora nahi …… when its clearly mentioned that acha bora dono Allah ki taraf se he …. Only difference is we label boora happening to us as “azmaish” …. Or else we say is mein Allah ki behtri he ….. I don’t see young children’s parents dying is in their best interest ….. you will call it azmaish ... isn't it? .....

Hadith - Tirmidhi and Ahmad, Narrated AbudDarda'
Allah's Messenger said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, has ordained for every servant amongst His creation five things: his death, his action, his abode, the places of his moving about and his means of sustenance.

"His actions"

*The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried.” ( tirmidhi) *

I have started that non muslims thread ….. now don’t tell me that those non muslims had free will before coming to this world of choosing their parents …. & they chose non muslim parents …. But still being non-muslims they are going to hell ….. but what is their fault ? ….. or may be they used " free will" in a wrong way ..... isn't it? ......

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^ now you are not dealing with technical part, right?
Above verses and ahadith do not mention that human's bad action are caused by Allah. Allah has the power to change the course of an action does not equate to He makes you act bad. In fact this world is test, everyone is tested here and in hereafter,will be rewarded for good deeds and sufferings and be punished for their wrong acts.

Quran explicitly mentions to refute what you are trying to say.

[7:8]And when they commit an immorality, they say, "We found our fathers doing it, and Allah has ordered us to do it." Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?"

[76:3]Indeed, We guided him to the way, be he grateful or be he ungrateful.

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Ok so Allah first puts you in a situation where you will most likely to do evil things ( I mean how long can you bear ) …… if you try not to , then Allah continuously expose you to certain environment over & over again until you will do what “Allah wants you to do” ……. Then you say that we have this so called free will ….. which we actually don’t ….. sometimes you are stuck in a situation where you either don’t have any option or you are only given options that will take you to more sinful road … putting human beings in a difficult situation then making us choose ( which we think we do but actually we don’t coz one way or the other this will happen coz Allah’s want it to happen) with no options in our hands & then making us accountable for those actions on the day of judgement … lol why …. I don’t get this thing?

Let me give you an example ….. a girl born in a prostitute house …. Does she have any options? …. & by the way who gives us options? … Allah gives us …. Allah gives us options & Allah takes them away too …. Waseele or zariye Allah banata he ….. & who created human beings, Allah created them &that too weak who can do evil things when exposed to certain conditions…. When Allah knows that a person can do such & such thing when exposed t certain environment then why do it ? …. If did then why not save him/her?

Did she choose her parents?

Did she choose to born like this in a prostitute house?

She will continue to be a prostitute & her sins will continue? Why she will be held responsible for such sins? Did she choose to be a prostitute? NO …. These sins are giving her basic necessities … right? … now you will say she has a free will to move out ? ……Born in a place like this, what options you think she has? …. Either she die or continue to do these sins ?..... both ways it’s a lose lose situation for her ….. isn’t this world is a place for preparation for the world here after? ….. now which place this prostitute girl stands? ….. I don’t think her preparation will take her to jannah ……
Oh yeah but she will still be responsible for her actions ….. which she was actually forced to do, given the environment & conditions she was born in from day one …… you will call this thing as azmaish … isn’t it mr. ajazali? …. Who deserves this? …. Now I will ask you again …… & you will not answer me as usuall….. is this zulm or azmaish?

Har aik cheez mein insaan responsible he is duniya mein kyu? …… are human beings running this world? …. NO …. We are designed by Allah … we are made weak by Allah ….. World is designed by Allah, rules & regulations decided by Allah ….. options to human beings are given & taken away by Allah …… Agar Allah dene pe qadir he tu lene pe bhi …… simple ….. but we only think that acha sirf Allah ki taraf se hote he hence shukar ada karo aur boora tu ho hi nahi sakta ….. kyun ke agar hota he tu we label it as “ azmaish”
Allah has the power to do everything but he is not changing anyones course of action …. Why? … to let people commit sins or to label those things as azmaish? ………..He doesn’t make you act bad but puts you in a situation where you will obviously act bad & will be responsible for your actions which are influenced by so many things…..
cool

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Re: Azmaish or zulm

being raped is not a good hing nor there is some betterment of any kind , but Allah's knowledge and Will and Power is beyond our understanding, He can make a worst thing the best and alternatively
us main behtri ka matlab there must be reasons for it , what reasons we do not know or we cannot understand

like hazrat khizar told moosa that the boy would have incited his parents so they desrved a better son, and so there are many more incidents.

but we humans can understand little or see only what Allah shows us , the rest is hidden.

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See this the thing we do to give ourselves this “tasali” that everything happens for the best …… how can a girl who got raped can ever be in “behtar” postion in any way in her entire life, physically or mentally, considering the fact how we human beings are designed ….. how can a girl getting raped will be in her best interest ??? ….. I don’t get this thing ….. Allah doesn’t stop that thing to happen …. Why because it was meant to happen simple …… then why we are answerable on the day of judgement? ....... Allah knows that we human beings have this tendency to do evils things depending on which environment we are exposed to, then again who created us ? …. Allah did… right? …. Then why make us like this? ….. why expose us to such environment ? ……. Just to make us do what HE wants us to do? ……. What will happen will happen … no matter what ….. Allah has all the power to stop it ….

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why was Issa born without a father? no one knows

Maryam was a pious lady and belonged to a respectable family.

allah knows the reasons behind and he can do anything which is beyond our understanding. He has own ways.

trying to understand what is beyond our imagination or thinking that it is zulm is not in our favour.

the girl subjected may get the best. If Allah can create worse He can also give the best.

it is not a tasalee only also a praise to his immensity

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Have mankind understood the quran properly?](http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=q49fqk4jktgcutk3tfcg1t6fv3&topic=5206.0)http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=q49fqk4jktgcutk3tfcg1t6fv3&topic=5206.0

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this is what we do from day 1 ...... is meiin Allah ki behtri he...... Allah knows the reasons .... this is beyond ou imagination .... this n that .....
is there any logical answer to my question or not ? ...... dont you think people who are suffering out there in this world deserve to know why all this happening to them? .......... Allah can do anything & everything .. right? then why not stop this thing from happening ...... who deserves a rape either as zulm or azmaish? ..... then saying that its behtar for her .... how can a rape be in someones best interest ? ....

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Man... Allah knows best.... Aazmaish is ber haq.... He will definitely test you... I am not sure exact reference.... but there is one in Quran....