Austria, Hungary prevent US troops crossing their territory, as Turkey delays vote

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Quite vocal and determined opposition from some strategic NATO countries, and a spanner in the works for US deployment for Iraq.

Turkey’s reluctance to participate comes as other allies signal their opposition to war without a second UN resolution. Austria is currently preventing American troops heading for Iraq from crossing its soil and yesterday Hungary’s parliament failed to endorse a plan to allow Nato to use the country’s roads, railways and air space to send military support to Turkey.](Turkey stalls vote for US troops | World news | The Guardian)

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heh.. i bet US wasnt expecting this one coming.

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:hehe: I know. As these three countries are what the US calls “New Europe”, it will be a severe blow, and the US will have to start coming up with new names to call these group of countries? :slight_smile:

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And now the US has issued Turkey with an ULTIMATUM.

U.S. Warns Turkey Against Blocking Iraq Plans](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More)

It’s all coming apart fast for the American’s.

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Turkey's reluctance to participate comes as other allies signal their opposition to war without a second UN resolution. Austria is currently preventing American troops heading for Iraq from crossing its soil and yesterday Hungary's parliament failed to endorse a plan to allow Nato to use the country's roads, railways and air space to send military support to Turkey.
Excellent news, perhaps particularly as it derives from a critical NATO member.

i am more surprised that Austria and Hungary have endorsed measures in opposition to assisting this war. Whatwith the majority of Muslim countries displaying their typical acquiescent attitude, i hope the Turkish parliament adamantly rejects the authorization of US troop deployments. It would send a clear message to the US admin. that even a strategically-placed NATO ally such as Turkey, is in a position of opposition towards the US-led war.

Some good news to hear for a change; i hope more European countries follow suit Insha'Allah.

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they shud be asking the famous question now

  • " Y DO THEY HATE US ( americans) SO MUCH?" *
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Washington, embroiled in a broader diplomatic battle at the United Nations over its war plans, indicated it had issued Ankara with an ultimatum and would do without it if necessary.
Interesting ‘ultimatum’. Losing the support of one of your critical NATO allies has got to hurt. Perhaps it would appear as though the US admin. has its work cut out for itself - even the Turkish parliament may not be convinced of the ‘necessity’ for authorizing US troop deployments. Insha’Allah more European countries will follow suit, particularly now that Austria and Hungary have already denied permission for US troops to cross their soil.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H:

Interesting 'ultimatum'. Losing the support of one of your critical NATO allies has got to hurt. Perhaps it would appear as though the US admin. has its work cut out for itself - even the Turkish parliament may not be convinced of the 'necessity' for authorizing US troop deployments. Insha'Allah more European countries will follow suit, particularly now that Austria and Hungary have already denied permission for US troops to cross their soil.
[/QUOTE]

I believe even Greece holds almost excatly the same position as these countries, and is in fact even more vocal in it's opposition the US war mongering. But giving Turkey an ultimatum akin to "you are with us or against us" is quite surprising, ans shows the levels of desperation in the Bush regime.

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No, it is coming apart for Turkey.

Newly elected smartass pro-Islamist government is holding out for a bigger payoff:

“Ankara is pressing for improvements on an economic package laid out in Washington at the weekend. Media and diplomats say it consists of direct grants of some $4 billion and around $20 billion made up of loans, trade concessions, a writeoff of military debt and share in reconstruction projects in Iraq.”

The “Ultimatum”, is a “last offer” ultimatum. The equipment ships are just as easily diverted to Kuwait, but the strength of the US force will not be present to help hold back the Kurds. So Turkey would have MORE refugees, MORE political unrest, MORE military expense, and NO badly needed cash, loan gurantees, and IMF Package. Without these their entry into the EU is probably jeopardized.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ohioguy:

No, it is coming apart for Turkey.

[/QUOTE]

Of course, and who is the one that is making the ultimatums btw?

What about Austria, Hungray and Greece?

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US troop trains would be headed to Turkey, and would go around Austria. Hungary is no problem.

And by the way, In Jan alone there were nearly a THOUSAND heavy airlift sorties out of Frankfurt/Ramstein airbases. The same with Equipment shipments out of Antwerp Harbor. Headlines are one thing, what is actually happening is another.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ohioguy:

*Headlines are one thing, what is actually happening is another. *
[/QUOTE]

So why the need for public ultimatums?

btw, Antwerp harbor is not in Austria or Hungray. :)

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It was not an ultimatum, but a last offer. They are holding things up, trying to extract a higher price. Time is running out.

I believe Antwerp is in Belgium, one of the Axis of Weasles. Whom despite all their public protestations have allowed a number of flights of helicopters, as well as heavy sealift boats to load.

All of this public posturing makes for nice headlines, but has no effect on the US effort.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *

So why the need for public ultimatums?

btw, Antwerp harbor is not in Austria or Hungray. :)
[/QUOTE]

btw, where is "Hungray?" :)

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Originally posted by Ohioguy:

Of course not, that’s why your own news article starts by saying - Turkey stood on the verge of a crisis in relations with the United States on Tuesday…

:hehe: How bitter the American’s can get when somebody dares oppose them. So enlightening…

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Alright let's see... if the Turkish Parliament was really that convinced of the necessity for going to war against Iraq, of the dire pressing need for a war against this demonic dictator, the Turkish Parliament should have immediately authorized the deployment of US troops. Their belief would have been it is better to delay discussions regarding the precise compensation amount because the pressing necessity for going to war against Iraq should supercede all such delaying tactics.

But NO - Abdullah Gul was aware he wouldn't be able to get the necessary approval from Parliament. Why? Because even Turkey, geographically located much more closer to Iraq (and therefore theoretically should be much more fearful of possibilities of supposed bio/chem/nucl attacks from that country), does not regard this issue as a pressing one.

It sure is unravelling at the seams for the US. The only remaining tactics left in which to "persuade" other countries of the validity of engaging in an unprovoked war against this supposedly dangerous country, is either by offering bribes or bullying them (or both).

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Malik:

This is how my article described the potential problems for the Turks if they get too greedy:

"The country, its economy already weak, would have to absorb the economic impact without U.S. aid. Interest rates could rise, increasing the burden of debt, tourism would be hit and rising oil prices could choke off tentative commercial recovery.

A $16 billion IMF-backed crisis programme might be thrown into difficulty with the United States less inclined to help.

The effect on financial markets, which appear to have factored in a deal with Washington, could be immediate.

The AKP’s hold on power could also be called in question.

It denies any Islamist tendencies and promotes a pro-Western programme, but is already viewed with suspicion by the powerful army. There will be little sympathy there if Turkey suffers."

As I said above, the US would prefer to have a northern front, but it is not essential. Call it a bribe or blackmail, Turkey does not want Saddam on their border. If they were not ready to let the US in, why would they have allowed US troops in to start work on airbases? Would they have requested NATO assistance?

And by the way, countries are perfectly wecome to say no to offers of MyVoices’ hard earned tax money!

And while you guys were so busy with the weekend protests, you must have missed the deployment of the Gulf “Penninsula Shield”. Turns out the little spunky Arab States are going to send up to 22,000 troops, as well as ships and aircraft to defend Kuwait! Funny, you would think that Kuwait would be MORE than defended. The coalition of the willing grows! The Arabs want Saddam gone. Bravo for helping to clean up their own neighborhood!

"Oman has sent troops to join a regional force to defend Kuwait against possible Iraqi attack.

An official said a battalion had left to join the combined Peninsula Shield force.

The troops are believed to have been dispatched after a request from Kuwait.

On Wednesday, a United Arab Emirates military official said his country would send two warships and a mechanised brigade of several thousand troops backed by Apache attack helicopters and tanks in coming days to defend Kuwait against any Iraqi threats.

Bahrain has also said it would send a frigate and unspecified number of personnel to Kuwait.

Peninsula Shield, stationed at Hafr al-Baten in north eastern Saudi Arabia near the Iraqi border, is the combined military force of the six-nation Gulf Cooperation Council, which includes Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the United Arab Emirates."

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ohioguy:
Malik:

This is how my article described the potential problems for the Turks if they get too greedy:
[/QUOTE]

Turkey absorbed even greater economic losses after the first Gulf war, and it survived and it will survive again. But one thing is for sure American attempts at bribery (which you seem to be endorsing) are not having much of an effect on the sentiments of the vast majority of Turkish people, and the popularly elected government.

Now you failed to answer the question as to why in such a short time US-Turkish relations are now in such a crisis? Also why "new Europe" countries like Hungary and Austria are so demonstrably against US policies?

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Hungary and Austria may do as they please. If Governments could rule NATO and the EU by VOLUME of their objections, then surely the Axis of Weasles, Belgium (the current and soon to be former home base of NATO), France (10% unemployment) and Germany(11 % unemployment), would rule the day.

But somehow they think that they speak for all in Europe, which is patently false. The "New Europe" knows and understands the risks of totalitarian dictators. Numerically "old Europe" even with Hungary and Austria (arguably also part of old Europe) gets clearly out voted even without the former Soviet Bloc EU wannabes. Perhaps this is the beginning of the end of the EU concept?

US and Turkish relations have suffered due to a new and fragile Pro-Islamic faction, and gee wouldn't it be terrible for them to get the blame for NOT taking assitance, having futher IMF problems, then not being admitted to the EU? How long do you think this new regime will last?

Turkey will survive. But the current regime may not. Too bad.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ohioguy:

The "New Europe" knows and understands the risks of totalitarian dictators.
[/QUOTE]

But you see Austria, Greece, Hungary are very much part of that "New Europe" i.e. not that "old" Europe of France and Germany. While the UK is very much part of that "old" Europe in case you know post-WW2 history. But then terms used by the Bush regime be they "axis of evil" or "old Europe" have always ended up rebounding on them pretty fast.

It's nice to see you predicting the end of the newly elected government of Turkey, because it dares to oppose US policies. It seems old habits of wanting the end of governments that don't support the US, die hard - so American. :)