Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

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**Police in the Australian state of New South Wales are to be allowed to demand the removal of burqas and other face veils so they can identify people.The state government approved the move late Monday after the high-profile recent case of a Muslim woman being acquitted when a judge ruled she could not be positively identified because was wearing a burqa.

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**“I don’t care whether a person is wearing a motorcycle helmet, a burqa, niqab, face veil or anything else, the police should be allowed to require those people to make their identification clear,” Premier Barry O’Farrell said.

“I have every respect for various religions and beliefs but when it comes to enforcing the law the police should be given adequate powers to make a clear identification.”

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**Anyone who refuses to show their face could be jailed for up to a year or fined Aus$5,500 ($5,900). The move comes in the wake of a case in November when a woman was sentenced to six months jail for falsely accusing police of forcibly trying to remove her burqa when she was stopped for a traffic offence.

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But her sentence was quashed last month when a magistrate said he could not be 100 percent sure it was the same woman who made the complaint because officers were not able to see the face of the accuser.
**New South Wales state Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione demanded a clarification of the law and O’Farrell said the new powers should help prevent a recurrence of such issues.Police previously had the power to ask women to remove face veils during the investigation of serious offences, but not on more routine matters.The wearing of full-face niqab veils by some Muslim women has become a contentious issue in parts of Europe, where France has banned them in public.

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**In New Zealand, Prime Minister John Key on Tuesday said Muslim women wearing veils should not face discrimination, after two Saudis were reportedly ordered off buses due to their attire. The Islamic Council of New South Wales said it accepted O’Farrell’s decision. “If you’re asked to do something by a police officer and it’s legitimate, then you do it,” council chairman Khaled Sukkarieh told ABC radio.

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**The Muslim Women’s Association said it would prefer that a female police officer was on hand when the veils were removed, but if that happened then “nobody could really complain”. The Police Association of New South Wales welcomed the move, saying it was a loophole that had to be closed.
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“It will provide clarity and certainty for both the public and for police officers,” the union’s acting president Pat Gooley said in a statement. While Queensland state said it would not go down the same path, Western Australia indicated it may follow suit with the state’s police minister meeting the police commissioner on the issue Tuesday.

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“I’m concerned at the idea of police not having the power to request drivers to remove helmets or other face coverings for ID purposes at the roadside,” WA Police Minister Rob Johnson said.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/australia-police-power-demand-burqa-removal-005856706.html

(agree with the law)

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Makes sense.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

I agree with the law.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

I'm sorry but I don't agree with this reasoning at all ... The police want to have positive ID of a person in niqab then they can take finger prints ... and they can confirm with more finger prints ... Besides it presents a big problem that Muslim women are using their niqab to hide behind when it comes to sentencing and you would have thought that they would not break the rules - i.e. speeding.

Our women should not give them a chance or reason to ID them and in turn they need to use other means to ID, and Muslims should not use the niqab to evade the law in non-Muslim regions because then they are inevitably going to create a premise for that very thing they hide behind to become outlawed itself.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

[QUOTE]
The police want to have positive ID of a person in niqab then they can take finger prints ... and they can confirm with more finger prints ...
[/QUOTE]

and what if giving finger prints is against some other religion's doctrines??

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

^that is a very excuse from the pro burqa lovers. if not finger prints, then dental records, if not that then butt cheek pattersn. it will never end. they just want the right to bare burqa...but they JUST don't want to move to saudia arabia to excercise that right.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

facial ID is the quickest form of identification. true that police can take their DNA sample too and identify them beyond any doubt.
but its stupid not to take free and best way.

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lol@fingerprint :eek:

so if im a woman and i just stabbed someone in public, went home, put on a burqah, no one’s gonna identify me muahahaha. seriously psyah, you mug up and regurgitate so much on religion, but where is the common sense aspect of life?

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

too complicated for me to comment on

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

Afghan police caught these today. now tell me what kind of finger printing could have identified suicide bombers hiding behind burqa.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/images/2011/07/05/20110705_34.jpg

source: dailytimes

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

at least they have not banned Hijab.

request to take off hijab for security check is minimum that Muslims should agree to in this environment.....

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

exactly,

Plus showing face for identification is allowed. If not then why women need to be without niqab during haj? So their mehram men can identify them in the crowd.

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Perfectly legal. Anytime, any security personals ask to identify then we Muslims should comply and respect the law of the land.

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fair enough!

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

Fine by me, I'm all for freedom of expression till it becomes a hazard. Already in our area multiple families have been robbed by people wearing burkas, cctv can't catch them, the victim can't identify anything about them and they get off scot free.
I would be annoyed if it came to the hijab though (like France), that would be a whole other topic.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

Peace Dr. LuLworth

Is that name intentional? I hope you are worth more … than that … Anway, I’m what you would call “pro reason” - the excuse that was given for positive ID doesn’t fit the whole picture and furthermore if a person is actively wearing the niqab and then does these acts such as breaking the law then it sort of presses for a greater problem to resolve … the niqab suits a purpose in a time and place and if the conditions of that time and place are out of calibration then the very thing that was brought in to protect women’s interest becomes a hindrance to society. From this and my previous response you will see that I am not arguing for or against niqab just the balance of reason.

That’s not how it happens … the crime is not done without the niqab on … the crime is actually done with the niqab on … in the above case the car was being driven by the niqab wearing woman and the police officer asked to see her at the time of flagging her down. He could not ID her later because she wore a niqab in the car and was reluctant to remove it and in the court the same applied … In such situations instead of creating laws that would hinder the interests of a community it is better to use other methods to resolve the problems. And it is a great responsibility to ensure the interests of a community are protected in the name of equality and fairness.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

Peace KiteRunner

People who go in to shops to do a theft wearing a niqab is probably no better or no worse and not easier or no more difficult to catch than a person who goes in to shop to do a theft wearing a balaclava, a pair of tights on his head, and so on ...

Some people hell bent to do a theft without being caught will use many ways to achieve their ends. If banning the niqab will achieve the result of thieves stopping their crimes or being identified better (noting that if they wanted to cover up they will do it some how) ... then I'll support it, but I can't see that happening. The fringes of society and petty crimes should not be the basis to alter legislation or else the concept of "freedom" in our societies will diminish. In order to be fair we need to distinguish between people who wear clothing for religious reasons from those who wish to exploit the freedom to achieve their sinful and criminal ends.

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

I completely agree with that but how realistic is that solution? How will you tell apart from those who use it for unjust means and those who are truly doing it because they feel it's a major part of their religion? Where we live there have been cases where niqabi muslims are using it for criminal acivities. It's very hard to differentiate between the ones with pure intentions and those without.

Yes people with bad intentions will use something else to cover themselves but to prevent this there's already a 'no hoodie' rule in public spaces/shopping centres etc, if we know the niqab is a threat to peoples safety then what's the difference between a hoodie and a niqab?

I think (major generalisation here) that if you ask a lot of muslims about the kirpan they will say, yes we agree with freedom but if it's being abused then we would like for it to be banned, and I know on face value the niqab doesn't seem as dangerous but it is being used as almost a weapon by criminals. So, I think at this point we need to assess, what's more important, the safety of innocent people or a veil which many think isn't a requirement of religion at all?

Of course I'd rather have it your way, where we could distinguish easily between the ones with pure hearts and those without, but it's not a viable solution. I do respect you greatly so I hope there's nothing I've said which causes you any offence! Just my tuppence :)

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

We didn't contribute anything to humanity in last 500 years and neither we are going to in next 100 years. 99% of Muslims who have chance to live in Western World are just working hard to meet the goals of better education for kids, buy a home, stable income or setup a business .. & then die.

From New Zealand to Argentina people are living and progressing, it's only us with some African countries who are stuck with Burqa, Niqaab and else. We are just laughing stock for rest of the world, period.

Science of identification is going to keep improving everyday, what next retina scan will be haram too, dental scan will be haram too, body scan is haraam too - what exactly are we looking for? A messiah came from heaven and kill all the western people & technology and establish new world order where everyone live peacefully in jungle of stones?

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Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas

Well said. The way some people are reacting to this story you would think they were stringing people caught wearing niqaabs up and burning them alive.