Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas
What "some people" are ye talking about? I can count over 10 people on this very first page of comments who've said this is perfectly fine so don't make this thread an excuse to let out your frustrations about Islam.
Lol and you guys know the history very well... The western (or the eastern) world didn't even use soap until the crusaders went to muslims lands! So please take your jungle and stone age taunts elsewhere.
If by "we" ye meant Pakistan, what does poverty have to do with religion? Ever thought of the fact that poor countries, especially the war-stricken ones, can't really afford to fund huge research projects and that might be the reason why we haven't been able to achieve scientific/technology breakthroughs?!
Nope i meant whole so-called Islamic world (if there is any). The excuse of war torn countries and blah blah doesn’t make sense. I will give you one example: World War 1 & 2 .. complete Europe destroyed they build it again it’s better then before. The problem is something else, Islam & Muslims as whole stuck with the pre-stone era issues, their is no Ijtihad of any issues after the destruction of Baghdad by the hands of Hulagu Khan, there is a gap of over 500 years of knowledge. We Muslims just stay away from all the inventions and new ages of discovery, industrialization & now Globalization. We suck !
Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas
I completely agree with that but how realistic is that solution? How will you tell apart from those who use it for unjust means and those who are truly doing it because they feel it's a major part of their religion? Where we live there have been cases where niqabi muslims are using it for criminal acivities. It's very hard to differentiate between the ones with pure intentions and those without.
Yes people with bad intentions will use something else to cover themselves but to prevent this there's already a 'no hoodie' rule in public spaces/shopping centres etc, if we know the niqab is a threat to peoples safety then what's the difference between a hoodie and a niqab?
I think (major generalisation here) that if you ask a lot of muslims about the kirpan they will say, yes we agree with freedom but if it's being abused then we would like for it to be banned, and I know on face value the niqab doesn't seem as dangerous but it is being used as almost a weapon by criminals. So, I think at this point we need to assess, what's more important, the safety of innocent people or a veil which many think isn't a requirement of religion at all?
Of course I'd rather have it your way, where we could distinguish easily between the ones with pure hearts and those without, but it's not a viable solution. I do respect you greatly so I hope there's nothing I've said which causes you any offence! Just my tuppence :)
It's quite simple - we follow the Arab model - no I'm not talking about a belly dancer or someone like that - we have women stand at public places and do routine searches ... in the Arab world in their malls they often have routine searches to make sure that nothing dodgy is afoot. In some places 100% women malls there women can be asked to remove their burqas. There are a lot of ways if we put our minds to it ... the problem I have is we claim to be so freedom orientated in the West yet when it comes to Muslims the first point of call is to consider a law that is imposed on us ... rather than looking for other resolutions first.
Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas
Why not people not fine with the laws of christain-lands move to islamic lands and develop those islamic countries using their expertise and wisdom??? if they cannot afford or are too scared to do it, and have no say over the laws of christain-lands, then obey the law, because when you entered those country as immigrant or adopted their citizen ship, you vowed to be follow the laws of the country or be a loyal citizen of that land, and would keep the interest of that particular country over every other thing... so what is the problem now...
Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas
I'm sorry but I don't agree with this reasoning at all ... The police want to have positive ID of a person in niqab then they can take finger prints ... and they can confirm with more finger prints ... Besides it presents a big problem that Muslim women are using their niqab to hide behind when it comes to sentencing and you would have thought that they would not break the rules - i.e. speeding.
Our women should not give them a chance or reason to ID them and in turn they need to use other means to ID, and Muslims should not use the niqab to evade the law in non-Muslim regions because then they are inevitably going to create a premise for that very thing they hide behind to become outlawed itself.
So, according to you, a police officer who arrests a burqa wearing woman for a traffice violation and requests to see her license should, when needing to validate that it is indeed her license, take her back to the police station where she should wait while fingerprints are taken and the matched? Should she be held under arrest during this time, to ensure that she does not flee should she be fraudulently using someone else's license?
In addition, most western countries do not allow the police to keep fingerprint records of the general population for privacy reasons - fingerprint records are obligated to be destroyed once the relevant investigation is over. Australia probably has no way of positively identifying her by fingerprints alone.
Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas
It's quite simple - we follow the Arab model - no I'm not talking about a belly dancer or someone like that - we have women stand at public places and do routine searches ... in the Arab world in their malls they often have routine searches to make sure that nothing dodgy is afoot. In some places 100% women malls there women can be asked to remove their burqas. There are a lot of ways if we put our minds to it ... the problem I have is we claim to be so freedom orientated in the West yet when it comes to Muslims the first point of call is to consider a law that is imposed on us ... rather than looking for other resolutions first.
I do agree with you again but I don't think it's possible or will happen in the near future. I mean, it's a wonderful solution but again not viable, to have all women malls in the west or to specifically hire more policewomen to check under the niqabs (gender discrimination in jobs, another huge issue) just doesn't seem like a realistic solution in a non-islamic country. I do think the government could be more conscientious but I also think we should make compromises, especially when we aren't living in islamic countries.
The niqab by most people isn't even considered as part of the religion (although I do recognise that to some it's quite important) so why create such an issue?
Again, I am all for freedom of expression, wearing a niqab, hijab whatever, but when it is something that affects public safety then yes it bothers me.
If the niqab is allowed in public spaces then, in the spirit of freedom, the hoodie that covers your face should be allowed too, we simply don't have the resources to have a policewoman at every corner checking to see whether anything seems dodgy. We live in a multi-cultural society, one where there are hundreds of religions/cults/movements to cater to each one so specifically is just not a realistic solution.
To me, things like the niqab just work to create more rifts between communities and more hatred towards muslims, I would rather not wear a niqab and be a positive person so that people are attracted to our religion as opposed to someone who refuses to budge and interact with others.
Re: Australia police able to demand removal of burqas
I agree with the law
anyone calling themselves muslim should not be doing anything to be stopped in the first place.....
So you are saying that should not follow Islam and break the laws of ALLAH and his PROPHET SAW to make Australian government happy sorry madam it will not happen
