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Yes and how do you blindly accept that Ahmadis do not believe in the kalima shahdah. Anyways, thats another discussion you can hold in the religion forum. This is not about the shahdah anyways. Its about the sad crime.
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If you call someone a Muslim, his Kalima has to be "I bear witness that there's no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah". And Ahmadis believe in a different prophet (some Ahmadis say Mahdi), if you didn't know. You do that math ;-)
Interesting to see another article in the DAILY TIMES of a person who was attacked near the same town at one point this year. This time its a christian trying to recite Kalma. Very interesting.. Who are these so-called "owners" of the Kalimah anyways ?
Friday, April 29, 2005
Christian injured for not reciting kalma
LAHORE: About eight people severely tortured a Christian in Chak 2 (South) near Mandi Bahauddin district for not reciting the kalma. According to a fax sent by the Holy Rosary Church to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP), Shahbaz Masih, who worked as a tractor driver for a local landlord, was picked up by several people from his house on the night of April 2 and taken to an undisclosed location. Later, the people told Shahbaz’s family that they had killed him and his body was lying in a field near his village. Shahbaz’s family members went to the location and found the boy alive. They took him to hospital, where he recorded a statement with his family and church authorities. According to the preliminary inquiry by the church, both of Shahbaz’s legs were broken because he refused to recite the kalma. waqar gillani
Well Said Maddy. Attacks on non-muslims are disgusting in my opinion. To me they are not muslims who attack non-muslims and kill them in such outrage. They can’t justify their killings by any definition of Islam.
If you've troubles understanding what I've said, I'll repeat it again. Ahmadis are not Muslims. That was the point I made in my previous posts. I also ** condemned the attacks ** , if you hadn't noticed. There are no owners of Kalimah's. If you're a Muslim, you say the Kalima. If you want to be a Muslim you say it. There is no compulsion in religion.
Ahmadis are MUSLIMS. Let them live and die as Muslims. Without being harrassed or told otherwise.
There are no owners of Kalimah's. True.
If you're a Muslim, you say the Kalima. If you want to be a Muslim you say it. There is no compulsion in religion.
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In 1880, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyan declared himself to be only a Muslim writer; in 1885, he announced he was a revivalist (Mujaddid); in 1891, he claimed to be the Promised Mehdi and the Promised Messiah; and in 1901, he pronounced himself a prophet of God! He also announced that he was the second and improved coming of the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) with authority to reinterpret the Holy Quran at his pleasure! Not happy with mere prophethood, in 1904, he declared himself the Krishna (the Hindu Lord).
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If they want they can live and call themselves Muslims but it is obviously not according to the Islamic faith. Intelligence is the shadow of objective truth. How can the shadow vie with sunshine? Anyway I myself am against these kind of attacks towards Non-Muslims.
You need to find something else to pick on in regards to me. Your little argument here on gupshup is getting very boring. And don’t tell me to shush up. Grow up.
**Again, for all Ahemdi’s who think that we Muslims think that we are alright with these gruesome killings, then they are sadly mistaken. Regardless of the fact that whether Ahemdi’s are non-Muslims or what not, these killings were indeed horrific and may Allah guide/punish those who conducted these attacks **
See, pricesly this attitude "So and so in Non Muslim because..." leads to hatred. Then some people take it to the extreme and these kind of events occur.
I think Diva4u is giving all the necessary answers and i dont want to jump in this thread but let me make one thing clear to you sir..
you are denying your OWN religion.. ahmadis believe in oneness of Allah they believe and follow all 5 pillars of islam, they believe in Quran And most importantly they recite the SAME kalima that you (sunni) "Muslims" recite. So if calling them non - muslim you are actually calling yourself non-muslim...
if hatred and giving people the advice to kill the people who do not agree with u in one point or another or to declare them non-muslims, then i can assure you that the Quran that Ahmadis believe and the Quran that you believe in is DIFFERENT. The Allah you believe and the Allah Ahmadis believe in is DIFFERENT. Since when Allah gives YOU the right to declare anyone a non-muslim.... Allah and Hazrat Muhammad PBUH that Ahmadis believe in tells their believers to do good deeds instead of killing people just for the sake of their beliefs..
In that case I would like people to call me Kaafir then a muslim... I would suggest you all to use the term "kaafir" or "non-muslim" as i would feel ahamed for being called Muslim.
Mid-Ranjha, District Sargodha: On Friday, November 10, 2000 around 09:00 PM a local Mullah Athar Shah led a procession, comprising of people gathered from 6-7 nearby villages. They surrounded the Ahmadiyya Mosque and started chanting anti-Ahmadiyya slogans. Some Ahmadis were present inside the mosque busy in Isha (night) prayers. The mob got violent and attacked the Mosque, completely destroying it and axing to death the five Ahmadis present there. According to reports Ahmadiyya community was receiving threats from local Mulla that they will treat them like their people treated Ahmadis at Ghatiyalian (Pasrur). ** Ahmadis tried to seek help from Police and were told to keep calm. When the Mosque was attacked by the Mosque, **Ahmadis phoned the local Police but there was no action. When Police arrived at the scene, it was too late.
Here are the reports as they appeared in Pakistani newspapers
dawn
SARGODHA, Nov 10: Five people were reportedly killed in what believed to be a sectarian clash in a village near Midh Ranjha, 60km from here, on Friday night.
The clash which took place at 9pm in Takht Hazara village also left two people injured. Reports said some people of the Ahmadi community allegedly injured Athar Shah after an exchange of hot words.
Shah sustained injuries and was rushed to Lahore. The news enraged the villagers who raided the Ahmadi worship place. After razing its walls they opened fire on those present inside the building, killing five and injuring one. One of the attackers was also killed.
Midh Ranjha hospital authorities said they had yet received four bodies. The Punjab governor has ordered a judicial inquiry into the killings.
How many more people have to die for their religion before the Government of Pakistan takes action and clearly and publicly states that such violence will not be tolerated? Freedom of religion is a right laid down in the country's Constitution
Frozen fire, do you even know that according to your teachings of Ahemdiya Movement, us Muslims are NON-MUSLIMS to you ? You are NOT allowed to pray in our Mosques ? And then you have the NERVE to come and tell us not to call you ‘Non-Muslims’. ?