Atheists Please Answer

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Atheists Please Answer

aurchaepiyo I actually agree with Unos ... the idea of nothingness contradicts the idea that Allah is pre-eternal. Only that he is suggesting matter has always been there or energy and this is not accurate because energy cannot in and of itself explain consciousness and intelligence, which implies evn energy is mastered by something else.

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Invalid question. we know exactly how he and she looks like and we see it many times a day. :smiley:

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have you been reading Rig Veda.
This question has been asked thousands of years ago and answered.

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go ahead let us know how he/she/it looks like

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at this point, i don’t think any religion would see me as a strong follower so no i guess i don’t believe in religion but i strongly believe in God

don’t know if those are all logical answers but i started my first post that way :biggthumb: that should count for something

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Ahem ahem.... there are so many. which one do you wanna know about.

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tell me you're being serious! and you aren't talking about some cricket star or famous person

if you're serious then all those ones and the many are really just the same God/

question to muslims, if Allah is undefinable, aren't we in fact defining Allah by saying Allah is undefinable, undefinable is an attribute

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Atheists are materialistic people.Means their vision is limited and they can’t see /feel something that’s beyond

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I dont know the answer, but just because we dont an answer does not make us wrong

Woahhh, wait a minute. You just cannot argue with me on this. I can give you a few line description.

Mathematics predict that just like 2 opposite particles can annihilate into nothingness, nothingness can produce 2 opposite particles (you have to read Stephen Hawkings theory of how black holes evaporate). This is exactly what happened at big bang. A huge burst out of nothingness that created some negative energy and bunch of particles and anti particles. The most weird part of this theory is that it wanted for every 10 billion anti-particles, 10 billion and 1 particles should be created. Those 10 billion pairs annihilated themselves in a very short period of time, leaving 1 extra particle (proton). That extra particle out of every 10 billion pairs formed universe.

I know my explanation is a very crude representation of big bang, but at least I put it in my words from what I know and did not copy and paste it from google :smiley: .. you have to give me credit for that

Opposite of your argument can be true also. If whole universe came into existence from nothingness then is it not possible that God came into existence from nothingness?

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This may have been posted here before, but its interesting.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread27888/pg1

THE CREATOR GOD STRIKES OUT!

Every possible form which energy and/or matter can take, must be in
use and exists today in time and space. Why? Because we are always in
the middle of Eternity. Eternity is a two way street. Eternity runs
both ways don’t you know. These forms will include universes about
which we know nothing. It will include undiscovered transformations of
energy/matter, and any other undiscovered condition, forms or
expressions which energy and/or matter may take.

When we speak of a God here, we are only speaking of that concept
fostered upon us by the Christian religion which claims that a God is
the creator of all that is. They claim a God was preexistent. That is,
before there was anything, there was a God.

By using this Christian definition, we are eliminating the many varied
little concepts of a God. Most of those activities, miracles and
controversies (if they are true) could also be attributed to some
super race of long lived aliens, and they need not be classified as
gods. Aliens could easily possess powers, technologies and abilities
which seem god like to our infant science. But, they are only
advancements which some day even we may possess. So we are only
dealing with the Christian concept of a creator God.

To say that before anything existed, a God existed, is an oxymoron.
Such a statement can neither be understood nor conceived by our minds.
It can not possibly be true and here is why. If a God existed, then
that God is something. And something is not nothing. So the universe
could not have possibly come from nothing. It must have come from
something. Thom’s law explains that.

Thom’s Law
“Nothing can not produce something. If there was ever a time when
there was nothing, there would STILL be nothing.”

So even a God (which is something) could not be produced by nothing.
Therefore, if a God came into being, he must have come out of
something. The only “something” which exists now and has always
existed is that of energy and/or matter.

So, any God (or anything else) must be, or must have been, the product
of something. Everything which is, must be a product of energy and/or
matter.

Now that is strike one against the Christians who say that a God
preexisted nothing. Or, as some say, a God coexisted with nothing.
That is, while there was nothing, there was also a God. (Unless, of
course, you wish to claim that God IS nothing. I could accept that
claim, but then I would not be here would I? Proof enough. I am here.)
So, you can not have a God (which is something) and say that before
him, there was nothing. You must either start with a God, which is
something (and came from something) or you must start with nothing.
For sure, you can not have it both ways. If there is a God, he is
something and something can not come out of nothing.

Strike two says, since there was something which must have predated a
God, God could not have created everything. He could not have created
himself if he was not himself to start with. God himself/herself/it
would have to be developed from something that was NOT a God. God is
claimed to have knowledge and character. Knowledge and character MUST
be developed. It can not be decreed. It can not be magically waved
into existence. Knowledge and character is a PRODUCT of life and
living. It is a product of making wise and foolish choices. It is a
product of growth.

Did a God have the knowledge to create or make a universe? Where did
he develop that knowledge? It is inconceivable that God simply sneezed
and the universe came into being. I don’t think even the Christians
would believe that.

To have the knowledge to create, or even to make a universe, God must
have had some prior experience, some development, some trials and
errors in how and why this worked and that did not. Also, the
Christians attribute lots of wonderful attributes to their God. God is
all good. God is all great. God is all just. God is all wise. God is
all knowing. God is everywhere. God is all powerful, and so forth.

That is, the Christians give God a good, moral and powerful character.
Now character can not be developed in a vacuum. Character must be
developed by trial and error. Character must be developed by finding
out what is good and what works. To do this one must also find out
what is bad and does not work. Character must always answer the
question, “Why?” in order to develop. Character is a growth process.

Therefore, there must have been other individuals and intelligences
with whom God could interact in order to develop a good character.
There must be at least a family of them. Therefore, God is not alone.
So, other intelligence demands some type of setting in which they
could interact. They must have a place, a home of sorts. So we now
must allow God to have at least a family, a home and a setting, or a
place of operating, in order to develop his character. So that is
strike two against a creator God being by HIMSELF, and at the same
time having both a good character and ultimate science knowledge. God
could not decree himself a good character or vast scientific
knowledge. He would not know what was good or what to decree. He must
have developed that knowledge.

In addition to this, God talked! How could a God language develop
without other like beings with whom to communicate. Come on now! Think
about it!

Next, we come to strike three. If there was something out of which God
came, then there was already material available to make a universe.
That is, God could not possibly have created the universe. However,
God could have MADE the universe. That is, he could have taken the
material which was available and MADE the universe out of that.
The Christian information about a creation comes from a mistranslation
of the Jewish Testament. The Jewish text reads:

“In beginning, the GODS MADE the heaven and the earth.”

The Christians CHANGED that to read:

“In THE beginning, GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth.”
In other words, the concept of a creation stems from a MISTRANSLATION

  • from a LIE. Think about that!

Either the God of the Old Testament made a mistake and used the word
“made” when he should have used the word “create” in telling us about
a beginning, or the New Testament God made a mistake and used the word
“create” instead of the word “made” to describe a beginning. In other
words, one of these Gods is lying to us. Which God is lying to us?

Since the Old Testament God told his tale first and then the New
Testament God plagiarized his work, I must assume the New Testament
God is the real liar in this case. Of course, if you do not wish to
give the New Testament God the credit for this lie, you could give
that credit to the writers of the holy book.

There are those Christians who say (in spite of Thom’s law) that God
did come out of nothing. I have some questions. Is God supposed to be
greater than the universe? The Christians say, “Yes.” Then why didn’t
NOTHING create something smaller or less significant than a God in its
first effort at creation? Why didn’t NOTHING do something simple
first? How would NOTHING have the wisdom to make something more
important and more complex than itself, more important and complex
than the whole universe? Why didn’t NOTHING make the universe first
and then make a God?

How did NOTHING make a God when it had not yet discovered how to make
the hydrogen atom? The effort of making a God would have challenged
all the resources of NOTHING, which resources of course is zero.
Hydrogen atoms would not have strained the efforts, knowledge and
power of NOTHING nearly as much as making something greater than the
universe.

Did you know that believers in all ages have created gods? Today
believers can create too! They make lots of gods using only the twenty
six letters of the English alphabet.

Now it is a fact, you can not put a strain on zero. You can multiply
it. You can divide it. You can add it. You can kick zero around, abuse
it, smash it, cast it aside and guess what? It is still a perfect
zero. So I do here by declare ZERO to be the only perfect number in
the universe. Nothing you can do to it changes the value of ZERO. It
is always and for ever - ZERO. You just can not get anything out of
ZERO except ZERO. And NOTHING is ZERO. And ZERO is NOTHING. A God did
not and COULD NOT come out of ZERO.

So, the Christian concept of a creator God goes down on a called
strike three. From now on, the creator God must take his seat on the
bench next to the rest of the religious gods who struck out. A God
could not have preexisted that from which he came. He could not create
himself. He could not create the universe without vast knowledge which
he must have learned by trial and error. He could not have learned
without other intelligence with whom to interact. He could not have
created the universe from nothing when material (energy/matter) was
already available from which to make it. The creator God strikes out.

Since there is no creator God, maybe there is a Maker God. Let us
examine that next.

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nahi pal nahi. not nothingness.

what you describe is the conversion of mass into energy, and vice versa. when matter and anti-matter collide, E = m c ^2, remember?

which says, big bang was produced out of a burst of energy transforming into mass. negative energy is just a way of saying this required energy input from some previous event/source, something from outside our universe. as for what happened before this, or what the event was that triggered this, we have absolutely no way of knowing.

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Neil Turok, Director of Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, working with Paul Steinhardt at Princeton, has proposed a radical new answer to cosmology’s deepest question: What banged

Answer:

Instead of the universe inexplicably springing into existence from a mysterious initial singularity, the Big Bang was a collision between two universes like ours existing as parallel membranes floating in a higher-dimensional space that we’re not aware of.

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that is why its called principle of uncertainty. Its purely a probability game. I am using the word nothingness, you are calling it unknown. Both describe the lack of knowledge. Same principle can be applied for the existence of God. We dont know the Hows and Whys but at least in God's case, we have a peace of mind that justice will be served on the day of judgment and all the killers and murderers will be thrown into the hell fire. Your laws of physics cannot claim that, can they? :D

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Somebody will come up with an explanation for that aswell ,may be in this century itself. :D

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lol well i'm sure you know this too, if the idea of God was more convincing and had a rational storyline as compared to what it is right now, these slaves of reason atheists would be the first to be believers. it is a matter of faith, and some folks don't find a leap of faith necessary as long as they are at peace with their actions.

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I agree with both Queer and Arleitter on this ..

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No i am serious and talking about real gods. not sachin tendulkar.
but i guess your question is only for christians and muslims

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no i never said that, but aren't all the Gods and Goddesses different manifestations of the same God, all of our souls are a part of that God no? i'm still learning hinduism too but are you from the advaita or dwaita school of thought?

unfortunately there was a part of the vedas that turned me off to it

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Well, I'm an atheist and I exist, so...

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Yup!

It's not the possibility of a creator that I am against. It's the organized religions that bother me the most. Their idea of God is this really sadistic weirdo that has full control of everything but still inflicts pain on his creation and then also like to punish them. This same God is on bad terms with satan and has let satan lose on us to see if any of us will give in to his temptations. This game satan and God are playing and using us as pawns will end on the day of judgment or rapture whatever. God will most likely win this game since he is God (duh'). He could have just finished off Satan but NO, God has an ego and standards, he wants to give Satan a chance. and then this same god wants us to worship him...Nope, not going to happen! If such Gods exist and I come to know it, I will still refuse to worship him/her/it/them.

Do you see what I mean? Where does this idea of God loves you comes from? If there is a creator, it is probably nothing like the God mentioned above. It probably doesn't even care about us!