What is the extent of knowledge that can be attained by the senses and can senses realize every created thing?.
I agree senses can be faulty at times.... but lets say we do trust 'em to an extent. And whatever doesnt allign with are senses is considered crazy ..or senseless. I am not arguing the existence of God at this point. I am saying if the above mentioned fact is considered true by u as well.. than shouldnt the very thought of God be considered crazy also?
well, personally I would consider that person crazy and most people would
but the thing is that they still trusted him in all other matters except Islam
the day when Muhammad was to be assassinated, he was still in possession of the Makkans property which they entrusted with him
and before leaving Makkah, Muhammad told his cousin to return all of that to its rightful owners
it would be more beneficial for you to go through the Seerah yourself
this is pointless, even you know that science cannot answer ALL questions
if you are going to reject the Quran on the basis that it doesn't have certain information, then you would have to reject science as well until it can answer all of man's questions
What is the extent of knowledge that can be attained by the senses and can senses realize every created thing?.
It was post # 234 and I told you in reply that I cannot accept analogies as a proof, it's the dumbest way to prove something, to which you did not reply and asked anther question.
Ok, I did not mean to reject Quran based on that. But what I am saying is that Quran claims things/phenomena without any concrete proof behind them. Atleast science gives me proofs of everything in it's domain. If Quran claims that it's version of the creation of universe is correct than it should provide proof for that.
and your explanation about the universe is not a proof, you are just saying that one case can't be true so therefore it must be the other
this is not a proof
*there isn't enough scientific information to conclude that the universe is finite or infinite
*
^First of all science does know a lot about dark matter and its purpose,it just does'nt know everything.It does know that its gravity is keeping the galaxies from drifiting because the gravity of all the visible matter is not enough to keep em together.Also recently i posted a news item here which showed that scientists now have proof that 'dark matter' infact does exist,they found it in an explosion between 2 galaxies in which invisible matter was bending light before this it was only a theory that dark matter exists.
what scientific information do you need? its simple logic,if you took a flight out in the space do you think you will hit a wall some 2000 light years from earth which will be the end point of universe or there will be nothing behind that wall?
In #234 i told you let us not consider God. You told me, in your post #237, Why will god give you senses if they are not supposed to be believed.
In rebuttal, i provided you with the reasoning in #243. Whihc you inevitably agreed upon for the bold part.
Then I questioned you again, but instead of answering to me to #254, you wanted to turn the table without answering. For which before i could start this argument in #234 I was pellucid, do not consider God as we are arguing upon belief and senses.
To your #258, we aint talking about God, but belief i repeat again belief.** The belief can also be through observation and realization, which you agreed to it.** Again What is the extent of knowledge that can be attained by the senses and can senses realize every created thing?.
okay, my bad
like I've said earlier, I believe Islam is from God so therefore anything in it whether it makes sense or not must be the Truth
the only proof that is required is Islam being from God
besides, even science doesn't have proofs for a lot of things, ie. theories
and some of the stuff that we learn in science is not really true
for example, Newton's Laws of Motion do not work at an astronomical scale
besides, even science doesn't have proofs for a lot of things, ie. theories
and some of the stuff that we learn in science is not really true
for example, Newton's Laws of Motion do not work at an astronomical scale
Sherafghan, science is a work in motion, it will keep on evolving and expanding. It does not intentionally try to confront religion, infact it has always been the other way round because religion percieves science as encroaching upon it's territory. If religion provides reasons behind it's ideas science will gladly accept religion as a part of itself. As I said earlier, atheists are always seeking answers to their questions, they are inquisitive in nature, you can call them confused too, as they do not yet know the truth but are also not convinced with the answers provided to them from the religious text books.
In rebuttal, i provided you with the reasoning in #243. Whihc you inevitably agreed upon for the bold part.
Then I questioned you again, but instead of answering to me to #254, you wanted to turn the table without answering. For which before i could start this argument in #234 I was pellucid, do not consider God as we are arguing upon belief and senses.
To your #258, we aint talking about God, but belief i repeat again belief.** The belief can also be through observation and realization, which you agreed to it.**
AgainWhat is the extent of knowledge that can be attained by the senses and can senses realize every created thing?.
I'll answer your question later as you have already made a simple question answer session complicated by assuming certain things.
^First of all science does know a lot about dark matter and its purpose,it just does'nt know everything.It does know that its gravity is keeping the galaxies from drifiting because the gravity of all the visible matter is not enough to keep em together.Also recently i posted a news item here which showed that scientists now have proof that 'dark matter' infact does exist,they found it in an explosion between 2 galaxies in which invisible matter was bending light before this it was only a theory that dark matter exists.
what scientific information do you need? its simple logic,if you took a flight out in the space do you think you will hit a wall some 2000 light years from earth which will be the end point of universe or there will be nothing behind that wall?
is that information supposed to make me disbelieve in Islam?
there's still some stuff that is not known about dark matter, you just said that in your post
my point was that if this is your basis for rejecting Islam, that it doesn't have the information you want it to contain, then by that reasoning you should reject science as well
and yes, your simple logic is very simple
i'll just hop on the next plane leaving for the end of the universe, and when i get back i'll let you know about my findings
You are just going around in circles now. You don't accept the Quran because you believe it is not from God. I accept the Quran to be the ultimate authority because I believe it to be from God.
If you want to argue on any matter pertaining Islam, then this is the only issue that needs to be addressed. After this is established, everything else follows from this. This is essentially the only proof required.
If I, claiming to be a Muslim, question Quran's authority then by definition I have not believed and I can't be a Muslim.
All I am saying is Quran should not touch upon the issues of creation of universe and evolution of life if it cannot provide proofs for that. Do you agree with this or not?
And first of all the question of accepting Quran does not arise unless we prove the existence of god.
To me the above are flawed reasoning. Only infinity can prove the existence of God and any other option will limit the powers of God. On the other hand, the infinity of universe is not confirmed and there are strong theories which state that universe has limits.
Claiming the existence of God is as scientifically illogical as is to claim that the universe has existed all along. I have not read or known any scientific law which states that matter and energy can be created out of nothing. If nothing was created then it is equally absurd to claim that matter/universe existed in one form or another all along.
Creation of universe is attributed to the Big Bang theory and then the inter-connected chain of events that lead to the current state of universe. One reason atheist give to falsify the existence of God is the Big Bang theory and it is dubbed as the start of everything and the missing link. Atheist fail to think about what was before the Big Bang.
At the moment there are two equally illogical choices:
1- God created universe and he always existed.
2- Univserse and matter and energy was always there without being created.
I don’t agree with you.
You have somewhat understood what I am trying to say.
When I say that I believe Quran to be from God, I have automatically inferred the existence of God and I have also inferred that Muhammad is the Messenger of God.
God in the Islamic sense, as described in the Quran, is the One who is All Knowing, All Powerful, able to do all things, the King of Kings, the Legislator, the Self Sufficient, the Ever Living etc.
There are more attributes of God, but you should get the idea by now.
When God legislates something then as a requirement of believing in the Quran I must obey. If I don’t obey that legislation then I have not believed.
So when God declares something then I hear and I obey.
The fact is that I cannot prove a lot of things to you which are in the Quran. And you won’t accept my reasoning because we don’t have the same beliefs with respect to the Quran.
If you don’t believe in God, then there is no reason to argue what is in the Quran. If you don’t believe Quran to be from God, then there is no reason to argue what is in the Quran. If you don’t believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad then there is no reason to argue what is in the Quran. Because these beliefs are prerequisites to believing in the Quran.