If we did not counter the bigotry which is being fed in the name of religion these days I see many people in our ranks leaving the religion altogether.
Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia, despite state-enforced ban - Salon.com
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
When its force fed, of course people are going to vomit.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
Using religion as an instrument of power
This is the menace we need to get rid of. The article and Professor Hossein Askari’s research is spot on!
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
It is alarming but the title of the article seems to exaggerate the situation by using the term “EXPLODES”. It could have been labelled as “Atheism spotted/seen/noticed in Saudi Arabia…”
Anyhow an intersting share.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
^ Furthermore, what a stupid reason to become atheist ...
"Oh, the fundies are hypocrites therefore God does not exist" it says they say ... If that truly is the reason why Saudis are becoming Atheists then they are short of good thinking skills aside their godlessness. What it means is that the people who they have appointed are not the right sort ... That is all it means ... The taboo is lifting gradually anyway ... And there is no sign to suggest atheism's rise is due to terrorism ...
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
Seems we're headed toward meeting Dajjal at hurtling speed.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
It is a topi drama. No athesim in Sudia.... Just 1 or two incidents and they made a story
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
^ Among the awam ... Probably no reason for concern ... But among the elite who get an education from the west and ideals from the west ... Yes that is increasingly atheistic and something of concern ... As the power will shift on them in a monarchy as it is.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
It is a topi drama. No athesim in Sudia.... Just 1 or two examples... And they made a story
Though the term 'explodes' is misleading today, but if the things keep on moving same direction like commercialization of religion and unnecessary insecurity and emphasis to spread one particular version of Islam, this will not remain topi drama
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
^ Furthermore, what a stupid reason to become atheist ...
"Oh, the fundies are hypocrites therefore God does not exist" it says they say ... If that truly is the reason why Saudis are becoming Atheists then they are short of good thinking skills aside their godlessness. What it means is that the people who they have appointed are not the right sort ... That is all it means ... The taboo is lifting gradually anyway ... And there is no sign to suggest atheism's rise is due to terrorism ...
An objective reader of this post and the link would not conclude the Saudi who became disillusioned with corrupt religious leaders simply doing the government's bidding are the ones who are stupid. But they would have a different view of those calling these atheists stupid.
As for those who say this is just one or two cases and is simply topi drama, do you understand the concept of percentages? 5 pct are athiests. Average in other nations is 13 pct. So the pct of Saudi who are athiests is 40 pct of that of other nations. If that is not an explosion, you don't understand simple arithmetic.
add to that being an atheist and expressing it is a capital offense..you think there would be some who will be too afraid to call themselves athiests?
Why does common sense take a back seat in such discussions?
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
An objective reader of this post and the link would not conclude the Saudi who became disillusioned with corrupt religious leaders simply doing the government's bidding are the ones who are stupid. But they would have a different view of those calling these atheists stupid.
I'm not calling atheists stupid ... Southie ... I'm saying ... atheism is the belief that there is no God ... how does the corruption of a given set of religious leaders infer that there is no God? The godlessness is a result of another cause ... it is globalisation and international monoculturalism that is doing it ... The article writer has obviously tried to conflate the terrorism issue with the separate issue of atheism - probably in an attempt to make people concerned about atheism taking root and doing something about the corrupt religious clergy ... I do however think it is important to recognise some truth in it ... as muqawwee123 mentioned ... there might be increasing disillusionment in the people if the status quo remains. The biggest problem is the outward aspects of society are heavy handed but the inner aspects are - anything goes - and that creates a huge problem within ... there is a pressure cooker affect happening this moment in Saudi ... where the desires for the temptations in this world are at the forefront of taking people away from faith - not the disillusionment of the people in the clergy ...
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
^ Among the awam ... Probably no reason for concern ... **But among the elite who get an education from the west and ideals from the west ... Yes that is increasingly atheistic **and something of concern ... As the power will shift on them in a monarchy as it is.
Right. And this applies to elite of all muslim countries.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
I'm not calling atheists stupid ... Southie ... I'm saying ... atheism is the belief that there is no God ... how does the corruption of a given set of religious leaders infer that there is no God? The godlessness is a result of another cause ... it is globalisation and international monoculturalism that is doing it ... The article writer has obviously tried to conflate the terrorism issue with the separate issue of atheism - probably in an attempt to make people concerned about atheism taking root and doing something about the corrupt religious clergy ... I do however think it is important to recognise some truth in it ... as muqawwee123 mentioned ... there might be increasing disillusionment in the people if the status quo remains. The biggest problem is the outward aspects of society are heavy handed but the inner aspects are - anything goes - and that creates a huge problem within ... there is a pressure cooker affect happening this moment in Saudi ... where the desires for the temptations in this world are at the forefront of taking people away from faith - not the disillusionment of the people in the clergy ...
Brother Psyah,
Atheism is a belief like 'off' is a channel on your television. Atheism is a position based on evidence, it is ontological, not epistemological.
I'm often amused by the response believers have when confronted by the behavior of their co-religionists. It's always the no true Scotsman argument. I suspect, it's not that they don't know the religion in question, it's that they know it all too well.
To paraphrase Al-Maʿarri, religion is a story invented by the ancients, worthless except for those who exploit the gullible masses.
Once people stop believing, they can't be controlled anymore. What's that old saying....veritas vos liberabit
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
Peace Southie
I know you are better at arithmetic than this … so it can only be that you are trying to be sophistical here …
40% of the average is less than the average … That is not explosion … Another way of saying it is that the average proportions in other countries is more than 2.5 times the atheist proportion in Saudi.
When looking at absolute numbers the population of Saudi is considerably lower than other countries - so the amount is very small … What is a bigger concern is that it is probably happening to the elites more than the lay folk … And the elites run the country so as a percentage of elites it is much higher - besides it should not concern you … you would like to see that happening as you believe this will reduce the threat …
which makes me wonder why the article writer should be so concerned about it …
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
Peace brother kprasad
I understand your contention, and I have had this debate many times in the past with other atheists … I use the term “belief” as form of conviction rather than as a way of expressing adherence to “faith” … When I use belief it means everything that we accept as true … even if it is based on evidence and proof … My argument has always been that some people deny things even after the proof is given, or they will continue to believe things even after the counters have been provided … it also means that people believe things to be true that are demonstrably so …
Looking at your analogy - If theism is “on” … and atheism is “off” - then yes all the variety of channels are of the “differing spectrum of theistic beliefs” … and atheism is not a belief system and not a channel … it can then be argued that if atheism is “off” then atheism is the same as nothing as “nothing” is also “off” … Atheism does not exist … Somehow we need to express the difference between atheism and theism …
If we say that … theism is the belief in a God … then atheism must be the disbelief in God or the belief that there is no God …
To say that atheism is the disbelief in God is unfair because it presumes that God exists, so that is why I stated it the other way round … the belief that there is no God … But if atheists insist that that too is incorrect then we have the definition …
atheism is the ontological position that Deity does not exist based on the lack of evidence of a Deity.
Either way - how can that “position” be inferred upon by the actions of corrupt clergy?
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
I will tell you why explosion is the correct word here. The 13 pct included countries that are uber liberal. I didn't have any Idea that the pct of atheists in saudi would be as high as 40 pct of the pct for the world. That is highly significant. Add to it the high probability that this 5 pct is an underestimation. For who would want to risk stating they are atheists when the penalty is death?
There are few posts here that call it topi drama cause only ONE OR TWO cases are involved. Wouldn't that be "sophistical"?
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
You petty atheist and you little triumphs.
I know whole "world" put down believers, that does not mean you come here(figure of speech.... other wise you are more then welcome)
so you come here put you foolish half baked ideas... and quoting God knows who.
Have some respect for your intellect do some research then put your argument forward.
1-India and pak have atheist less the 3% ???? even their belief system is completely opposite?
2-saudis 5% atheists ?
Dude if atheism was presented to pakistan and india, wrapped in science and darwin, you think both natation could hold their atheism and low as 3% ???
Growing some one into atheism does not mean, that person has evaluate, or even willing to evaluate the idea of other side holds.
Like Kpersad, would you read couple of books if I asked you to, about religion ?
Like UAE saudis kids are pretty westernised. No wonder even if the atheism "explode" even more.
dont quote.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
Also there was an attempt to conflate percent with absolute numbers. Everyone knows absolute numbers r meaningless. One has to normalize using metrics such as pct.
Also link states explosive GROWTH. So the operative word here is growth. It is clear some in tbis threas think atheism is not very prevalent in SA. I thought so too.
So it is reasonable to assume 5 years ago for example, the pct of atheists in SAW AS 0.5 pct. Now 5 pct. That is a 1000 pct growth. Whereas the pct atheists in the world probably unchanged.
That is what the link refers to. The GROWTH has been explosive.
Not sure what Mr. Monk's post was about.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
add to that being an atheist and expressing it is a capital offense..you think there would be some who will be too afraid to call themselves athiests?
exactly. im sure there are way more atheists in muslim countries than the ones who declare. i personally knew many in pakistan but ofcourse, none of them would ever come out to be an apostaste or ex-muslim infront of other judgmental people who think atheism and apostasy is an actual crime.
Re: Atheism explodes in Saudi Arabia
Hmm not gonna downplay anything but I hope you guys realize that this article is from salon.com before bashing each other. Now with that out of the way, continue the fights.