arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

how do you counter this kind of ignorance?

share your thought on this on societal and individual levels?

best,
Dushwari

Religious police in Saudi Arabia arrest mother for sitting with a man

Sonia Verma in Dubai

A 37-year-old American businesswoman and married mother of three is seeking justice after she was thrown in jail by Saudi Arabia’s religious police for sitting with a male colleague at a Starbucks coffee shop in Riyadh.

Yara, who does not want her last name published for fear of retribution, was bruised and crying when she was freed from a day in prison after she was strip-searched, threatened and forced to sign false confessions by the Kingdom’s “Mutaween” police.

Her story offers a rare first-hand glimpse of the discrimination faced by women living in Saudi Arabia. In her first interview with the foreign press, Yara told The Times that she would remain in Saudi Arabia to challenge its harsh enforcement of conservative Islam rather than return to America.

“If I want to make a difference I have to stick around. If I leave they win. I can’t just surrender to the terrorist acts of these people,” said Yara, who moved to Jeddah eight years ago with her husband, a prominent businessman.

Her ordeal began with a routine visit to the new Riyadh offices of her finance company, where she is a managing partner.

The electricity temporarily cut out, so Yara and her colleagues — who are all men — went to a nearby Starbucks to use its wireless internet.

She sat in a curtained booth with her business partner in the café’s “family” area, the only seats where men and women are allowed to mix.

For Yara, it was a matter of convenience. But in Saudi Arabia, public contact between unrelated men and women is strictly prohibited.

“Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked ‘Why are you here together?'. I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin,” recalled Yara, who wears an abaya and headscarf, like most Saudi women.

The men were from Saudi Arabia’s Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, a police force of several thousand men charged with enforcing dress codes, sex segregation and the observance of prayers.

Yara, whose parents are Jordanian and grew up in Salt Lake City, once believed that life in Saudi Arabia was becoming more liberal. But on Monday the religious police took her mobile phone, pushed her into a cab and drove her to Malaz prison in Riyadh. She was interrogated, strip-searched and forced to sign and fingerprint a series of confessions pleading guilty to her “crime”.

“They took me into a filthy bathroom, full of water and dirt. They made me take off my clothes and squat and they threw my clothes in this slush and made me put them back on,” she said. Eventually she was taken before a judge.

“He said ‘You are sinful and you are going to burn in hell’. I told him I was sorry. I was very submissive. I had given up. I felt hopeless,” she said.

Yara’s husband, Hatim, used his political contacts in Jeddah to track her whereabouts. He was able to secure her release.

“I was lucky. I met other women in that prison who don’t have the connections I did,” she said. Her story has received rare coverage in Saudi Arabia, where the press has been sharply critical of the police.

Yara was visited yesterday by officials from the American Embassy, who promised they would file a report.

An embassy official told The Times that it was being treated as “an internal Saudi matter” and refused to comment on her case.

Tough justice

— Saudi Arabia’s Mutaween has 10,000 members in almost 500 offices

— Ahmad al-Bluwi, 50, died in custody in 2007 in the city of Tabuk after he invited a woman outside his immediate family into his car

— In 2007 the victim of a gang rape was sentenced to 200 lashes and six years in jail for having been in an unrelated man’s car at the time. She was pardoned by King Abdullah, although he maintained the sentence had been fair.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

God save the king. What else can I say ? These mutaween are jahil and so many desies returning from KSA tell stories of Sardar Jees been beaten by these idiots at the Namaz time for being outside the Masjid not inside it. You know why because Sardar Jees having beard look like Muslim men to them.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Its such a total disgrace. They go about enforcing this kinda stuff, why dont theygo and police teh whole saudi royal family, that get up to so much haraam things. Its teh total height of hypocrisy. This poor woman gets thrown into jail for sitting with a man, while saudia arabia has some of the most sophisticated brothels operating, some of teh things that go on behind closed doors is disgusting, and every1 is well aware of it, but nuthing is dun about it. Why this pretense of being religious??? Its bad being an awful person and a hypocrite and showing it but worst still whn u r al these things and then put an act of being all holy and religious and upholding islamic values. TOTAL DISGRACE

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

They are simply camels having sand filled in their heads!

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

^ don't insult camels. At least they don't denigrate their females

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

thanks, folks. this is indeed very shameful for good Muslims.
there are so many levels of violation and utter disregard in this.
hopefully, right minded women and men can stop this trend and bring back the faith's moral and ethical teachings in line with peoples' actions.
best,
Dushwari

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

how do you counter this kind of ignorance?

share your thought on this on societal and individual levels?

**best, **
Dushwari

I must say very interesting case you brought here for discussion and POV :chai:

There is one kind of ignorance in this case and which is with regard to familiarity with local law

Lets put brakes at saudi bashing for a while and I say we should have a closer look at the story in and clinically analyse the situation, which sonia verma (the reporter ) should have done but never bothered :nook:

The women in the story is an american national who chose to stay in KSA on her own free will and business interests.

KSA has strict law forbiding intermingling of ‘unrelated’ men and women in public. Lets face it. if you choose to stay in the country you must obey the law or face the consequences. Your agreement or disagreement with the law is irrelevent.

The lady was guilty of beaching the law of the state.

Now as most of you are un-aware of public place etiquettes in KSA. I can tell you that if you are living in KSA and are familiar with this law and take due precautions, then if is extremely difficult for these Mutaween (religious police ) to catch you red handed. But if they catch you somhow then you have to face the penelty.

In public places, resturants they have reserved cabins for families where ladies can uncover their face and eat and relax. For Saudi women veil is a compulsion, but non-Saudi women can leave the face uncovered. All the women have to wear buqa , regardless of their nationality.

This kind of reserved places for families is not a norm in western world nor is in subcontinent. As Saudi state enforces strict dress code so they have made it obligatory for all resturants to provide private cabins for families. So now when these reserved places provide privacy for families , at the same time they provide opportunity for moral vendalizm for unrelated men and women. These strict laws are in place to control this very issue.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Code_Red, the point you made above is valid...ie she was guilty of breaching the law of the state.

But consider the punishment...the strip search, the disgrace in the toilet...are these justified?

Surely the punishment should be meted out in a more humane way?

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

This is a stinking biased piece of reporting.

See the extracts from the report :

" Religious police in Saudi Arabia arrest mother for sitting **with a man "
**
There was no ‘mother’ in this story. She was just a lady, iff there were her three children accompying her then it would have been a fair title.

The biased reporter wrote the word just to gather sympathies for that lady.

‘With a man’ :rolleyes:

The stupid reporter has a terrible memory.

Read the below part which is the most serious offence about which i was talking in my last post.

This family area is not a public place !

You need to respect the law of the land. It is made for your own protection.

If you are not family, then DO NOT GO ‘curtained family area’. If you did then stop whining and crying in front of international media.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

there might be a bit more than is told in this news... should be taken with a pinch of salt. Codey you are right, one has to respect the law of the country
but in general the behaviour of these muttaween is very degrading towards the people that they are trying to CORRECT and help in becomming better muslims, its almost like a personal grudge,

personally I think after they have done their CORRECTION part, the object (who has been corrected) actually develops a negative attitude towards this whole correction thing, I doubt if they become better muslims after getting in and out of the clutches of the members of the commision.

I have spent some time in KSA, and have observed some incidents myself, its basically a terror squad, let loose on the people, and they have unlimited powers (or so it seems). The royal family wants it this way, its their insurance policy against any uprising on the street level.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Code_Red

about the memory part..well she was sitting with a man. all the other men were in other chamber.
about the case, well she ought to have respected the law of the land, but i think the punishment she was subjected to was too harsh to be called human. strip-search and the toilet torture, were they really needed??
i think, some of the punishments and laws of SA are too harsh, almost animal like.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Come on

Any partially blind person can spot a sikh among thousands of non-sikh folk

Okey I tell you an incident

Once a sikh drove her pregnant wife screaming with pain to nearby McDonalds

Customer there astonished to see this asked this sikh fellow why did he brought her here

The sikh replied "I heard delivery is free in Mcdonalds '

Now read carefully :

The above mentioned incident never happened. This is merely a joke. Sikhs are very sane and sensible people. Similarly what you mentioned is also a popular joke desi people tell. It is easy to mistook A hindu ( looking like a pakistani ) working at bakery in Jeddah, than considering a sikh ( with a prominent turbun ) to be a muslim.

Apparently, she never faced any real punishment. Her husband secured her release the same day. All she had to do was sign a false confession. Now i dont know what really was that 'false confession'. If that was really false she should not have signed it. Or it was merely the detail of the offense she commited i.e sitting with unrelated person in a designated family area.

She was right that other women who dont have connections suffer more.

I agre that In KSA punishments for crimes are very harsh. This is a hardcore fact. But at the same time crime rate in this country is also one of the lowest in the world.

Like many of you, I would have taken this above ^^ statement as hogwash just a year ago, if someone told me this but I have witnessed this with my own eyes.

Shopping mall jam packed with shopper gets vacated in matter of minutes at the sound of Azan (call for prayers) and each and every one heads toward masjid for prayers, shopkeeper leaving their shops open. Even jewlery shop beaming with gold ornaments are left unattended. And there is hardly any security or watchmen there.

What do you think the reason of such higher level of protection and security there.

One reason is the harsh punishment for theft, i.e chopping off hands.

The mere mention of this punishment terrorise the potential offenders.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

I like this statement of yours. :k:

You are right about the first statement too . there might be more detail of incident which is skipped or ommited by reporter trying her best to portray the lady as angel and innocent victim, which she was not. According to this report.

In KSA the punishment of breaking the trafic signal is one night stay in jail , minimum. No one can save you from this punishment if you are caught by police. No ammount of fine.

My question : Will you consider those men who got caught will breaking the signal and had to spend night in jail as criminals ?

No, not at all. The simply broke the law and had to face the panelty. If the offender is a family member of yours than you will consider this a very harsh panelty , but at the same time if someone in your family was injured in a raod accident you will consider this a very just punishment.

I seriously hope that atleast this punishmenti is introduced in my counrty :k:

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Apparently, she never faced any real punishment. Her husband secured her release the same day.

..strip searching...... *
*“They took me into a filthy bathroom, full of water and dirt. They made me take off my clothes and squat and they threw my clothes in this slush and made me put them back on,” .

well it really matters to a woman to be forced naked in front of un-known men .
and i think she was released after a day in the jail.

** All she had to do was sign a false confession. Now i dont know what really was that 'false confession'. If that was really false she should not have signed it. Or it was merely the detail of the offense she commited i.e sitting with unrelated person in a designated family area.**

she did say she was submissive, so she may have been forced to sign that. and without signing it, they werent letting her go.
**
KSA is a beautiful country.but the laws are really inhuman. choppin off hands for theft is not happening.
by the way, just out of curiousity, does KSA follow the laws that are in-scribed in the Holy Quran???**

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

I agree with code_red, if a sauid man has two wives and takes them to USA he will be persecuted.

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

western media working hard (and successfully too) in creating such stories to incite hatred against arabs in the hearts of the muslims....
they know the sentimental attachment the muslims had with arabs and hence all this saga to turn them away....

and poor muslims falling for everything that the west throws at them....

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

I agree with code_red, if a sauid man has two wives and takes them to USA he will be persecuted

is this a good thing or a bad thing??

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Sir, with all due respect you need to understand that there was not a minute possiblility of such obnoxious thing takning place in KSA. Thees people dont allow their women to un-cover face, how can you imagine something like that ? :halo: Ever heard of Women police ? :aq:
There must be women Mutaween (women police ) who must have treated the lady.

And btw, the point in case the report suggested and members condoned that the lady was innocent and wrongly charged. Which was totally un-true as she was guilty of the offese (breaking the well known law) which she admitted in this news report.

You need to know that before enacting a law the govt need to do the ground work.
Islamic laws can not be enforced until the country is a practically a ‘welfare state’

Despite dozens of ills of Saudia Arabia, the counrty takes care of their citizen pretty well.

Education is free for them So is healthcare
There is hardly any un-employement, most of the well paid jobs are offered to their citizen.
No inflation.

So once the govt takes responsibility of its citizens then there is no rationale left for NOT abiding by the law of the state. What is a rationale for a person stealing when govt has offered him all the necesities of life ?

Chopping off hand is symbolic in a way that God saying that this hand was given to you so that you do hardwork and earn respectable living. Once you mis-use this hand and cause grief and loss to fellow human without any rational reason then it must be chopped off.
**
It is simmilar to US law that if an intruder tries to enter your premises with out your permission, then you can warn him/her and subsiquently shoot him. kill him at the spot.
**
On paper this Saudi / islamic law is less harsh than his US law.

Btw, reported crime of stealing/theft is virtually non-existant in KSA

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

Merc ny ju YRA! wala case discuss kia tha yeh wohi tu nahi:chai:

Re: arrest mother for sitting with a man: what do you do with this?

[quote="Dushwari, post:21, topic:178267"]

how do you counter this kind of ignorance?

share your thought on this on societal and individual levels?

best,
Dushwari

This Headline Will also be sensational:

Innocent Child Killed for the Sin committed by its Parents!

However Dushwari Ji that is happening every day in USA......People did use to protest but not anymore......:(

Even Jerry Falwell Said.....God is punishing The US for all the Abortions when he saw the Twin Towers on 9/11...:(


What I am trying to say that The Saudi's Have their Lawsand we in USA have our Laws!