So I was watching this programme on TV last night called Extremely British Muslims . It was about young girls and boys trying to find arranged matches from themselves .
In the end , I realized that the issue is quite real to find the right spouse here in the UK , specially so for muslims coz arranged marriage is still seen as the most acceptable way forward .
So the girls , become way too honest and say to the potential suitor things like " I wanna travel , no kids immediately , want to work as a priority , need you to cook and look after kids too etc "
The boys say "no mixing with boys, wife should be homely , cook for me , no going on holiday alone, less social interaction, etc "
So the clash seems to be greatly in the expectations both genders have with each other , eventually leading to both parties not finding the right spouses and even when they think they have , both arent ready to compromise enough to get it to work and end up divorcing , leading to high divorce ratios.
What do you should be done to bring both genders in the middle to accept each other? and make the matrimonial process easy?
Issues in upbringing i guess. Living in same country, same culture and yet the guys are not as much accepting as the girls are, typical male chauvinism etc.
i think the change should start from the parents inculcating the right kind of values/expectations/teach sons to be more flexible, accepting etc etc
This topic as a parent and an uncle to dozens is very dear to me. I am youngest of 8 and my wife of 7. You can’t change the world but can adapt to changes. War of the gender is real and is not limited to desis. We have scores of multinational kids hang at our place and I am surprised as to how much animosity there is amongst genders.
My thinking is to prepare kids for multiple relationships. Raise them to be gender neutral meaning they don’t need a girl to cook and clean. The more flexible you are about race, religion and culture the more chances of success. My wifes nephew married a Hiindu girl from Guyana and they are a hugely successful couple. My one nephew is marrying a Vietnamese girl, the other dating a Hindu and another with a Syrian girl. When I read in GS rishta only syed, punjabi etc I know the limited pool to draw from will create a challenge.
The otherside is that some people have nothing to offer yet demands are out of the world. I knew these young girls, werent that educated, couldn’t do housework, were lazy althoug dressed in expensive outfits and had designer purses yet their expectations was a tall handsome millionaire who will cook and clean for them
I think people in the west are finding people on their own or having their parents/aunts/uncles/friends find people for them. The guy/girl end up meeting with or w/o family depending on how religious/conservative they are, get to know each other and then make a decision.
Problems that I’ve seen with cousins and friends who have been married are two:
***1) Both are super immature. No one wants to compromise and are very hard headed. ***
Both have expectations that are not discussed. Both jump into marriage and are very disappointed because honeymoon stage has passed and now the responsibilities and ‘real life’ set in. Both men and women should know their roles and responsibilities prior to tying the knot. Our mosque does pre-marital counselling which I feel would help both genders talk about the future with an experienced counsellor that has seen many marriages and their challenges. Both should be compromising. And as hard as it is, to get something you need to give first.
In-laws/ Immature boys. ***
I’ve seen two personal cases one of my friend and other of my older cousin whose fiances broke the marriage because of in-law issues. I don’t want to go into too much detail, maybe save those stories for another time. There’s how the guy/girl want their marriage to be and parent’s expectations. This can be very tough on the guy because he has to handle both his parents and his future wife. Sometimes the in-laws have unrealistic expectation for the girl coming in that they would not have for their own daughter even. A lot of guys end up liking someone but don’t want to man up for her and tons of times feelings get hurt on both sides.
Definitely comes down to upbringing on both sides, girls should be taught to have realistic expectations.
Agree with Bobby to some extent, we shouldn’t still be harping on about these gender specific roles - I have no issue with cooking/cleaning etc but a man shouldn’t be taught to EXPECT that from his wife.
Seen lots of mothers that frown upon their sons helping their wife with household tasks - ridiculous.
Anyhow there’s a definite crisis in the UK - unsure what the answer is really.
I’ts not just the UK, its the U.S and in Canada as well. It’s definitely both sides, as well as in laws which exacerbate the problem
To add, girls want guys that are 6’0, amazing jobs, educated, will cook, let them work, don’t want kids early, don’t drink and smoke. The amount of where’s my Alladin and SRK msgs on their profiles are too damn high!
Guys want girls to look like models, be okay with in-laws, dress conservatively and take care of house. Which most girls aren’t ready to do.
Not to mention, these girls are all really educated, doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and guys are less so. Even when there aren’t that many guys on the market to begin with.
Honestly theirs really no way to “fix” this. The people that needs to view and read these posts won’t listen to advice that is given. Whats done is done..
Any ways, you happen to have a link to this documentary? I would love to watch it?
“What do you think should be done to bring both genders in the middle to accept each other? and make the matrimonial process easy?”
I think there shouldn’t be so much separation. Even at university, I saw how segregated formal meetings of MSA were and people talked bad about anyone who tried to break the barrier. Ironically though, the students who organized these meetings had no problem being very close to each other after the meetings… so much so that around 60-70% got married to each other.
There was this stigma, girls didn’t want to approach any guy because they were afraid of being perceived as being desperate, yet I found out through non-muslim friends that these so called religious guys, some even hafiz-e-quran, were dating white girls on the low key. And others who weren’t so religious drank and partied every weekend.
From what I saw when we were looking for rishta for my sister, 1/3 were not very educated, 1/3 were looking to get married for papers, and finally 1/3 who seemed to have it all on paper, good education, good job etc. were social drinkers and were not going to quit anytime soon.
I am appalled at the horrible upbringings, both my nephews and my wife’s nephews regularly came for feasts at our house, I love to cook and help with dishes and these big strong guys never got up their ass to help and we would even pick up their plates. When we went to my gori x’s house all the guys would get up to help. So how come these highly educated born and raised boys here behave like this. They don’t even bring a box of chocolates to show their appreciation. How many desi boys will cook clean, wash toilets and help with kids? I have told my boys that they always get up to help and never be cheap, my boy takes his gf to nice restaurants and buys her gifts.
I dont think there is a solution to this. People will have to work on improving their offerings, go to the gym, have good manners, be interesting, do interesting stuff have hobbies, workout etc and be ready to look outside one nationality.
You young people have to fight the traditions and be strong enough to not worry about anyone saying anything, some of the best people I know drink socially, my BIL is the most amazing husband and father and his kids are stars and he is a modern man. How you treat your children, wife and people is so much more important than an odd cocktail.
^ Fight the traditions? Maybe Islam doesn’t play a role in your life so you probably won’t understand but for others social drinking (or ‘haram’ interfaith marriages) is a no-no and that’s completely fine…
I had some business dealings with this ultra religious guy who referenced religion in every sentence and he turned out to be a liar and a fraud and a deadbeat so there are many other vices we seem to not worry about. Of course, if that is a deal breaker than I understand. This young doctor we knew drinking was a deal breaker for her but then wasn’t happy with the misogyny of some conservatives and now she is 32 and will consider social drinkers
Haven’t had the chance to watch this programme yet but I guess it’s more about Pakistanis and not so much about other Muslims? Which is usually the case when it comes to UK programmes about ‘British Muslims’.
The problem is that these men have the same expectations that people back home used to have. Whereas us women who are born and/or bred in the West have adopted things such as equality and freedom et cetera. So we gained certain expectations/demands/whateveryouwanttocallit at the expense of Pakistani/Muslim men. There is always going to be a clash.
In my opinion, in most of these cases compromise is not really possible.. it’s either divorce or one side has to give in (usually the woman).
I know it is against your faith but I want my children to have meaningful relationships, loneliness is horrible, if things don’t work move on to the next. Even failed relationships help you grow and you had fun while it lasted.
I feel its become more and more important to teach both genders how to protect and nourish relationships specially a delicate one like a husband and a wife .
It really does demand to let go ego and opinion. It changes a person completely to ensure their relationship lasts . The kind of effort it demands . Are today’s girls and boys ready to put that effort in ?
Are us as families helping these kids learn this art of managing aspects of their relationships . I feel we are the ones letting them down .
The only reason arranged marriages worked in the past for a majority was because they didn’t get to make demands, their parents did whatever they liked.
20s are when people think they are invincible and the best things ever.
So you can either allow human interactions between the genders early enough to bring down expectations to realistic levels, or you can keep up the segregation but force marriages on them. If you try half and half, you are effed.
My brother is looking to get married through the arranged marriage route and to be honest the problem is mainly that people don’t know what they want. My brother has a good job, he sometimes misses his prayers but he doesn’t drink or smoke and he has never had a girlfriend. But the girls that we have seen so far for him are just living on another planet. They are so immature and have such unrealistic expectations that it makes you think what kind of examples of marriage did they get from their parents? The hijabi religious girls have a long list of dos and donts. They want someone who reads 5x a day who will go to lectures with them, they want their own house, they want all of their rights but at the same time none of the responsibility. The non religious girls have just as long a list but with other really stupid stuff that has nothing to do with marriage, like taking them shopping and going on holiday with them. There doesn’t seem to be much compromise coming from anyone and without compromise from both parties a marriage is not going to survive.
Seriously think people looking to get married should go on pre marital courses. There are quite a few in the UK now. It’s really important.