Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

At first I was outraged that the tribesmen did this to a serving soldier… but then I realised that this may actually be in accordance with the law. The agencies are not covered by Pakistan’s judicial code, so the right to court trial is not valid for crimes alleged to be committed in the agencies.

Technically, I think that the valid legal process was carried out.

(A different newspaper carried the story that he was from Punjab, as opposed to being a local Pakhtun)

Soldier stoned to death in Kurram for alleged love affair: report | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

PESHAWAR: A soldier has been stoned to death in Pakistan’s restive tribal northwest over allegations of an affair with a teenage girl, officials told AFP on Wednesday.

A tribal council in the town of Parachinar, close to the Afghan border in Kurram district, ordered the sentence on Anwar-ud Din, who was about 25 years old, for having “illicit relations” with a local girl.

“There were some 40 to 50 people who hit the man with stones till he bled to death,” a local tribesman told AFP on condition of anonymity.

Relations between men and women without family approval are considered immoral by many in Pakistan, particularly in the deeply conservative northwestern tribal areas, where Taliban and Al Qaeda linked militants have strongholds.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

So you're no longer outraged because a barbaric and archaic system is apparently in place that calls for such punishment?

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

The outrage was from concern that they had acted against the army outside of the law.

This incident highlights that reforms are needed to ensure that constitutional judicial protection is extended to all citizens.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Pakistani soldier stoned to death over ‘affair’ with local woman

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

so if it is within tribal laws it is not that outrageous..to stone someone until he dies....and you thought technically, a valid legal process was carried out...

technically! lol.....killing someone with stones...and we are deciding it on a technical basis...technical knock out or non technical

i dont care what our religion says about it..all i know it is outrageous to kill a human being in such a brutal and animalistic manner ... you dont even kill an animal in this manner....and speaking of religion, our mujtahadin should have done ijtihad about it centuries ago

anyway i dont know what more to say .... all i know I may be banned on this forum soon ... because i seem to have problem with everything labeled Islam and Pakistan these days...mods have been extremely accommodating and gracious with me to start with...but my time may be up cuz there is nothing positive coming out from pak lately...and i just cant hold my tongue!!!

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

When is america going to fix the drug laws?

So, phoenix, are you against chopping off hands for stealing, even as a last resort based on situation, as well?
How would you "reform" islam?

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

in principle, I dont support chopping heads, stoning people to death, chopping hands, limited lashing, lashing to death....all these abusive type punishments do not go well with another image of islam that we try to propragte all the time i.e islam is all about civilization, rehmat -ulla- alamin, peacefulness, forgiveness, societal reform and what not ....

just think for a second and plz dont be biased..stoning someone to death by digging him half into the ground....i mean just think for a second if it is happening to you .....you think this type of punishment goes well with the civilized image of Islam and our prophet rahamt ala alamin (PBUH)? I just see a lot of disconnect...punish him but do it some other way for god sake...

maybe we did not have proper prison system when we came up with these punishments......
may be it was OK to have these type of punishments in that type of backward badu system..
maybe these were old badu regional traditions that got infiltrated into Islam

i mean i dont know...

but what i do know that had we done ijtihad on a continuous basis, all these punishments would have changed as societies evolved and Islam spread beyond backward badu region into more civilized societies...

to be clear, i support death sentence but not chopping heads using swords..la howl walla quwata billah!

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Parachinar](Redirect Notice)Parachanar was counted as a hill station and culttured city before the Islamic era of General Zia ul Haq . I remeber one thing about that the people used in summer the ice stored in caves in winters .
I have not heard about this sentence in that area before . Powers going into Mulla’s hand , Our intermediate pass intellectuals gave this power to Mulla for using them for their purposes without thinking of future impact . You can buy Chars and opium on stalls in these areas so Islam of their own choice only .

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

In order to maintain the sanctity of pakistan affairs section, this thread should be moved to religion section. The discussion that will ensue on this subject is certainly not going to be political in nature.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Apples and oranges.

There is something horribly gone wrong when people rely on the SECONDARY source of religion (Hadith) to implement one of the most horrible ways of executing someone; even when the PRIMARY source of religion (Quran) does not even mention this form of execution.

(1) When two people have sex, its effect does not go beyond the two of them.
(2) On the other hand, corruption at national level effects the future of whole nation. Similarly, terrorism like bombings kills tens/hundreds of people.
Yet people justify the implementation of this worst punishment in case no. 1 only.

There is something terribly wrong with this thinking.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

spot on.....that is absolutely right..now I believe in Hadith but problem is that there are so many zaeef hadiths.

so khojie do you know if chopping heads, stoning people to death, chopping hands, limited lashing, lashing to death....are listed in Quran? I am not sure so i cant comment.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

In an Urban environment under the same circumstances, he would probably have been shot and dumped in some dark ditch.

Tribal areas have laws that differ from other states. States have different laws all over the world even within the same country. Some allow lethal injection, some allow Capital Punishment/Electric chair, etc.

When you expect of others not to impose their ways on you, return the same favor in kind. Double-standards never serve any noble purpose, and often delay the looming doom. In this case, Pakistani Govts' (past and present) failure to properly develop FATA, and set up a judicial system that is not inept and truly serves the public, gives speedy trials and fair judgements would have prevented this (perhaps not). Adultry is a punishable sin in Islam.

Just for the record, rest of Pakistan isn't all that rosy either. Courts are full of corrupt personnel, and justice isn't always dispensed accordingly.

ps: I disagree with stoning too. He should have been punished differently, and not because he's a Pakistan Army soldier.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Why punished differently? The real question is if he should've been punished at all.

Wonder what happened to the girl. Usually it would've been the girl who'd be buried alive and then this would've never even made the news.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Honestly, I think I am more disturbed reading some of the comments on the thread than the actual incident...

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Pakistan should bring the tribal areas within the ambit of Pakistani constitution, no questions about it. What stopped the government for doing that during the past 65 years? Just like this act was despicable and brutal, so is the FCR which is used to govern those areas.

For those who dont know about the Frontier Crimes Regulations (which is there since British Raj), it is the collective responsibility of the tribes to ensure peace in the area. Suppose there is a terrorist in a tribe, the tribe is requested to hand him over to the authorities but non compliance of the orders results in punishment against the whole tribes. Can we even imagine this in this day and age?

Have we ever heard public outcry against this law? Should we be controlling the tribal areas with these medieval laws in the 21st century? The FCR has a role in spreading talebanization and other social evils in the area.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Those tribals are - you know what... However I am not a religious scolar nor claim to have enough knowledge of the subject at hand but common sense dictates that there is someting very worng the way the guide lines or laws of quran are interpereted..

However I have the following saved in my archives once reported and discussed by Dawn news paper very interesting with repsect to stoning.


Does religion prescribe the punishment of stoning for adultery? The Jewish answer to this question would be 'yes'. The Old Testament, explicitly depicts various adulterous sexual acts, and prescribes that those indulging in them be "put to death" (Leviticus 20:10-21).

If a husband accuses his wife that she was not a virgin when he married her "and no proof of the girl's virginity is found, then they shall bring her out to the door of her father's house and the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has committed an outrage in Israel by playing the prostitute in her father's house: you shall rid yourself of this wickedness."

If, however, the accusation turns out to be false "they shall fine him a hundred pieces of silver because he has given a bad name to a virgin of Israel, and hand them to the girl's father" (Deuteronomy 22:20-21). "When a man is discovered lying with a married woman, they shall both die, the woman as well as the man who lay with her: you shall rid Israel of this wickedness".

The Christian answer to this question is found in the amazing and touching story narrated by the Apostle John. One day when Jesus Christ was teaching in the Temple, "the doctors of Law (Rabbis) and Pharisees brought in a woman caught committing adultery. Making her stand out in the middle they said to him, 'Master, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. In the Law Moses has laid down that such women are to be stoned. What do you say about it?'...

"Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they continued to press their question he sat up straight and said, 'That one of you who is faultless shall throw the first stone.' Then once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard what he said, one by one they went away, the eldest first; and Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. Jesus again sat up and said to the woman, 'Where are they? Has no one condemned you? She answered, 'No, one sir.' Jesus said, 'Nor do I condemn you. You may go; do not sin again' " (John 8:1-11).

The aforesaid is the only reference in the Bible (New Testament) to adultery and stoning. The Bible does, however, have other references to stoning, all of which mention Jews stoning the prophets or the apostles of Jesus (Luke 13:34, 20:6; John 8:59, 10-31, 11-8; Acts of Apostles 7:58, 14:5, 14:19 and the 2nd Letter of Paul to the Corinthians 11:25). The Bible records the propensity of the Jews to stoning.

The anguish of Jesus Christ is heart rending. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that murders the prophets and stones the messengers sent to her! How often have I longed to gather your children, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings; but you would not let me. Look, look! There is your temple forsaken by God. And I tell you, you shall never see me until the time comes, when you say, 'Blessings on him who comes in the name of the Lord!' " (Luke 13:34).

The holy Quran does not prescribe stoning as the punishment for adultery. There is not a single verse to this effect. The Holy Quran stipulates the punishment of "a hundred stripes" for the act of adultery, zina (24:2). If a particular sentence is prescribed in the Holy Quran a harsher one cannot be imposed. The holy Quran also requires the fulfilment of an almost impossible condition before conviction can result. Four eye- witnesses have to testify to sustain the charge (24:4).

And if those who accuse a woman and fail to "produce four witnesses", they are then to be flogged eighty times. If there are no witnesses and a husband accuses his wife of adultery he has to repeat his testimony and on the fifth invoke the "Curse of Allah" on himself if he is lying (24:6-7). The punishment is averted if the wife similarly swears (24:8-9). Therefore, the Holy Quran here places greater reliance on the testimony of a woman.

In none of the verses pertaining to adultery in the holy Quran the term stoning (rajama / rajim) is used. 'Rajim' means 'stoned', 'accursed' or 'damned' and is used as an epithet of Satan (3:36, 15:17, 16:98 Shaitan nir rajim, Satan the stoned or accursed). The verb which derives from rajim is rajama, and it means 'to stone', 'the act of stoning', 'a missile', 'something to stone with', 'guesswork', 'guessing' or 'stoned' (11:91, 18:20, 19:46, 36:18, 44:20, 18:22, 67:5 and 26:116). However, none of the verses refer to adultery. The Arabic word rajim / rajama is similar to the Hebrew word ragam, which means 'to collect or cast stones'.

How is it then that some Muslims followed the Jewish practice and prescribed stoning as the punishment for the sin of adultery?

General Muhammad Ziaul Haq discovered 'Islamic law' to secure his tenuous position. He enacted a 'law' which for the first time in the history of Pakistan ordained that "whoever is guilty of zina shall ... be stoned to death at a public place." Zia gathered around him semi-literate and self-styled ulema, legal and other sycophant advisers and introduced laws which purported to be Islamic.

Every legal enactment is or ought to be preceded by an open debate. There was no debate when any of the Hudood laws were enacted. The one in which stoning was prescribed, The Offence of Zina (Enforcement of Hadd) Ordinance, 1979, was enacted overnight. The arrogance of the lawmakers knew no bounds. Since the Hudood laws claimed to be implementing God's intent, it was expected that every care would be taken to ensure against the possibility of any mistake, but none was taken.

The sycophants surrounding Zia had the audacity to refer to him as a modern day Ameer-ul-Momineen (Leader of the Faithful). Any opposition to such a ruler was it not opposition to Islam itself? The craftily drafted question in Zia's referendum suggested as much.

Twenty-three years have passed since the law prescribed the punishment of stoning and we have seen governments of democrats, technocrats and autocrats, but not one has been able to undo Zia's legacy. No one is apparently prepared to seek the truth, if it entails being perceived as assailing 'mazhab'.

The facts of the Zafran Bibi case have shocked the nation. A judge has sentenced her to death by stoning relying upon Zia's law. Zia enacted the stoning legislation contending it to be a Hadd law. Hadd is a legal term for the offences and punishments which are defined in the Quran. The fact that the punishment of stoning for adultery does not find mention in the Holy Quran did not deter Zia's Zina enactment.

The propagators of stoning support their contention by relying on reports attributed to Hazrat Umar; that certain verses prescribing stoning had been revealed but had been left out from the Holy Quran when it was compiled. This effectively calls into question the very infallibility and sanctity of the holy Quran as contained in the texts handed down over fourteen hundred years and is anathema to believers and is to be rejected. We are then left with certain traditions attributed to the Prophet reported in the recognized works of hadith literature.

The most famous collectors of the Sunni Hadith were al-Bukhari (Sahih), Muslim (Muslim), Abu Dawud, at Tirmidhi, an-Nasai and ibn Maja. All these compilers died between 256 to 303 years after the Hijrah (or between 870 to 915 AD). The Shiah collections of hadith are called khabar and were compiled even later, between 320 to 454 after the Hijrah (or between 932 to 1062 AD). The five recognized Shiah compilers were Abu Jafar (Kafi), Saykh Ali (Man la yastihzau-hu al Faqih), Shaykh Abu Jafar (Tahdhib and Istibsar) and Sayyid al-Razi (Nahj al-Balaghah).

It is an acknowledged rule in reading hadith literature that if a reported hadith purports to record that which is contrary to the Quran, it should be disregarded since the Prophet (pbuh) did not act contrary to Allah's revelation.

But even if one examines the hadith recorded by the compilers of hadith which purport to prescribe stoning there is no instance when the Holy Prophet ordered stoning of a Muslim who was caught committing adultery or against whom a charge had been levelled.

The instances that have been recorded by the hadith compilers are of Maaz bin Malik and of the woman from the tribe of Azd Gaib. The two are separate instances but the stories are similar. It is reported that they voluntarily appeared before the Holy Prophet and without being confronted with a charge, accusation or being coerced confessed their own guilt. Then too the holy Prophet is reported to have been extremely reluctant to hear them.

In both these instances it is reported that the Holy Prophet upon hearing the confessions turned his face away, this he did no less than four times, but the persons persevered and repeatedly confessed before him. Thereafter he questioned whether they were mad or drunk. Only then stoning was ordered. The Holy Prophet then read their funeral prayer (namaz-i-janaza) which was a singular honour and prayed for them. The hadith reports that the Holy Prophet then said that the person stoned had sought such profound forgiveness that if it was spread over the entire community (ummat) its blessing (sawab) would be enough for all.

Some hadith compilers record that once the stoning had commenced the person being stoned ran away and was brought back. When this was reported to the holy Prophet he said "if you had let him go then it is entirely possible that he would have sought forgiveness and Allah would have accepted his forgiveness" (Muslim, transmitted through Abu Huraira).

The hadith which are relied by the propagators of stoning are really examples of extreme atonement and expiation and can hardly be used to expound a tradition (hadith) prescribing stoning. These incidents have also not been fixed in time. It is possible that these incidents took place before the verses ordaining the punishment of whipping for adultery were revealed (the revelation of the Holy Quran having taken 23 years).

On such slender facts Zia prescribed that a person who commits adultery, "be stoned to death", forgetting the tradition reported by Hazrat Ayesha, that, "if the Imam (ruler) wrongly forgives it is better than if there is a mistake in sentencing" (Tirmidhi).

By relying upon the Holy Quran it cannot be contended that adultery is a hadd for which the punishment is stoning, but this could be contended if reliance were placed upon Jewish scriptures. Ibn Khladun had noted just such a tendency in the ignorant, "They turned for information to the followers of the Book, the Jews ... so when these people embraced Islam, they retained their stories which had no connection with the commandments of the Islamic law ... commentaries on the Holy Quran were soon filled with these stories of theirs" (Ulum al-Quran, Muqaddamah).

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

They killed her by shooting her. How does one go about proving that another one is having “illicit relations” in Pakistan anyway?

Honour Killing: Girl gunned down, boy stoned in Hangu | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

It’s very hard to do so in the courts. For a court to find you guilty you would basically have to hump in public.

Tribal standards fall well below those of a fair trial. The terms of the territories ascension to Pakistan need urgent revision to ensure that judicial oversight is extended to all citizens of Pakistan.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

With minimum of four witnesses...

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Very good reasoning and shows how the laws are being manipulated to suit somebody's version... Wish the posters here read this and understand the full context of the law before justifying the punishment.