Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

bringing into the system sounds great, but then the system thats in place in mainstream Pakistan doesnt inspire much hope either.

Ultimately, these people will have to reform themselves. No amount of inclusion will change their mindset if they themselves dont want to change.

As horrible as this all sounds, this strict conservative way of life has been a part of the culture of the area far longer then Pakistan has been around.

The laws of course should change, but lets not forget that the reason the British formulated these laws was because the Tribal areas were so fiercely independent.

Lets say for example the situation had occurred under a more mainstream dispensation. If the same had occurred and the soldier were judged according to Pakistani law, would he have even been considered to have committed a crime, and if he had, would his punishment have satisfied the tribesmen to the extent that any future incident would be dealt with through the same legal process? I don't think so. Ultimately, if they are not satisfied with the judgment or the punishment, next time they will simply render justice themselves. So its matter of changing the mindset, and the Pakistani state, which itself has a mindset that isnt quite enlightened, doesnt seem to be up tho the task.

I think the ultimately, the best lesson one can draw from this is what we have all known for centuries now... Dont try to be a romeo in the tribal areas if you value your life.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

There are a few things in which the local people cannot do anything, and that includes constitutional changes in the country to bring FATA under Pakistani judicial system. Have you heard of any place in the world where collective punishments can be given for the crime of a few? Isnt that similar to what the mob did in Badami bagh? The difference is that one is done on an individual basis and the other on the state level. The biggest cause of spread in chaos and extremism in the society is power vacuum (we have seen the impacts of this in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Egypt). To reduce extremism in FATA, we will need to provide good governance there and improve the judicial system.

[QUOTE]
Ultimately, these people will have to reform themselves. No amount of inclusion will change their mindset if they themselves dont want to change.
[/QUOTE]

This holds good for all of Pakistan including those living in settled areas.

[QUOTE]
As horrible as this all sounds, this strict conservative way of life has been a part of the culture of the area far longer then Pakistan has been around.
[/QUOTE]

They could be conservative, but being conservative itself is not that much of an issue. The problem that we have now is extremism in which a big role has been played by our military and intelligence? Can we fully blame the tribals now?

[QUOTE]
The laws of course should change, but lets not forget that the reason the British formulated these laws was because the Tribal areas were so fiercely independent.
[/QUOTE]

They were independent then and they are independent now. 65 years are a long time, we could have brought them within the framework in a diplomatic and peaceful manner. The rules for FATA are different, if we dont change them we will keep on discussing the same things in the future.

[QUOTE]
Lets say for example the situation had occurred under a more mainstream dispensation. If the same had occurred and the soldier were judged according to Pakistani law, would he have even been considered to have committed a crime, and if he had, would his punishment have satisfied the tribesmen to the extent that any future incident would be dealt with through the same legal process? I don't think so. Ultimately, if they are not satisfied with the judgment or the punishment, next time they will simply render justice themselves. So its matter of changing the mindset, and the Pakistani state, which itself has a mindset that isnt quite enlightened, doesnt seem to be up tho the task.
[/QUOTE]

Not exactly stoning, but people are killed through out the country on similar pretexts.

I do not really get your gist of this post, do you think that Pakistan should keep the draconian FCR laws to govern FATA?

As far as I am concerned, I think tribals are also humans and they should be treated will full respect and dignity. FATA should be formed a province or included in KP (referendum can be held to ascertain the decision of the people), FCR should be abolished and Pakistani judicial and constitutional laws be extended to FATA. FATA province is the most important at the moment.

If you guys remember the situation of Gilgit/Baltistan also started deteriorating a few years ago and the reason was due to governance issues. One good thing that the present goverment has done is to convert GB into a province which has improved the situation there.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Im saying bringing them into the system is a cosmetic solution ... Its sounds nice, but what difference will that make? Like you said, the mainstream is just as bad. The problem isnt how the govt deals with the tribes, its how the tribal society exists unto itself. This soldier was killed not because of FCR, but because of the nature of the tribal society itself. Bringing them into the mainstream is not going to change these aspects of their culture.

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

^ we need to make a start some where, bringing them in the main stream would be the first step. I agree with you that the problems wont go away dramatically. We can observe issues in Balochistan, Karachi and else where (in the country) but they can easily be managed by improving the governance. If the state properly functions the culprits should be punished according to the law of the land. At the moment FATA is out of Pakistan's judicial jurisdiction...

For a large population of Pakistan its still illaqa ghair. If its illaqa ghair (foreigners land) why do we discuss about what happens there?

Re: Army soldier from Punjab stoned to death in Kurram agency for affair

Some details about FCR…I see FCR to be one of the biggest reasons for spreading militancy in the region…

Making Governance Work in Pakistan’s Tribal Areas - by Shehryar Fazli | The AfPak Channel

Pakistan’s military spokesman Gen. Athar Abbas recently rejected U.S. allegations that some Pakistani security officials tipped off militants about impending raids on their facilities in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), allowing them to flee ahead of time. He said, however, that “tribal elders” are sometimes informed about such actions, presumably to win their consent. While unconvincing, this explanation does appeal to standard impressions about the state’s tenuous control over a supposedly self-governed tribal belt. But the government’s writ in FATA is tenuous by design, benefitting a powerful military and civil bureaucracy rather than tribal communities.

Before the term “FATA” became part of the global vocabulary, Pakistanis commonly referred to this region as Ilaka Ghair, meaning “Strange Land.” And strange it is – not for its people or culture, but for the way it is governed. Pakistan has retained a colonial-era legal and administrative framework, codified in the Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR) of 1901, to govern the tribal belt. Since Pakistan’s independence, FATA – which comprises seven tribal agencies and six areas known as Frontier Regions – has been a kind of playground for smugglers and criminals of every stripe. The Pakistani military has also used the strategically located region to promote its perceived interests in Afghanistan through local and Afghan proxies. Now, unsurprisingly, FATA is a haven for a long inventory of local, regional and international jihadi outfits.

Under the FCR and Articles 246 and 247 of the state’s constitution, Pakistani laws do not apply to FATA, nor do any other constitutional clauses, including those protecting fundamental rights of speech, assembly, fair trial and dignity. There are no regular police or courts. Acts of parliament are also not applicable unless the president directs otherwise. While the government extended adult franchise to FATA in 1997, elections take place on a non-party basis, and elected parliamentarians effectively cannot legislate for their constituents.

Instead, governance in each agency is overseen by a centrally appointed bureaucrat, the political agent ¶, who enjoys extensive executive, judicial and financial authority, without any credible checks. The FCR empowers him, for example, to imprison for three years a person who has not committed a crime but ostensibly poses a threat of homicide or sedition. They also have the power to punish an entire tribe for crimes committed on its territory through fines, asset seizures, economic blockades and detention of any of the tribe’s members. Such actions cannot be appealed in a regular court. In 2004, South Waziristan’s administration shut down, and later threatened to demolish, the agency’s central marketplace when members of a major tribe failed to capture foreign militants there, leaving many residents without an income.

The PA can also refer cases to tribal jirgas (council of elders), presided by maliks (male elders), who receive financial privileges in return for helping maintain social peace and suppress crime. Jirgas enforce customary law, which is often selective and discriminatory, particularly against women. Their decisions can be appealed to the PA but, again, not to any court of law.

As militancy spread in the region, insurgents murdered hundreds of maliks, attacked or took over jirgas, and intimidated political agents and their assistants. In a few moves, FATA’s governance was dismantled. Internationally-funded efforts now to win over FATA residents to the side of the government by bolstering the PA’s position, and reinforcing jirgas, are bound to fail, since these unaccountable institutions have themselves bred much public resentment towards the state. Nor are any major development projects likely to be sustained given the absence of regular laws, economic regulations, and the courts to enforce them. Despite ample natural resources, therefore, FATA will almost certainly remain exceptionally underdeveloped and poor, providing just the breeding ground and space to operate that militant groups need.

**The common argument that tribal Pashtuns would resent their “traditions” being breached by the introduction of regular laws and government is impossible to reconcile with the daily misery and risk that the FCR has wrought. **In August 2009, President Asif Zardari announced a modest FATA reform package that, while not repealing the FCR, sought to curtail some of its worst provisions, hold the PA more accountable, and lift the ban on political activities. It was widely welcomed across the tribal belt. Almost two years later, these measures have not been implemented, due primarily to resistance from the military and civil bureaucracies that benefit from FATA’s antiquated and opaque administrative system.

The FCR was also applied to some parts of Baluchistan, the other province bordering Afghanistan, until a Supreme Court decision in 1993 struck it down. The judges argued that describing a people as “tribal” does not justify denying them the same rights as every other citizen. The FCR’s repeal there did not disrupt local traditions, nor lead to chaos. There is no reason we shouldn’t follow the decision’s logic to FATA.

For all its ostensible “iron hand” value, the FCR could not prevent the explosion of criminality and militancy across the tribal belt. On the contrary, it facilitated the steady degradation of conditions and security in the area. Until this oppressive body of law is repealed and FATA becomes part of Pakistan proper, the people most affected by militancy will remain marginalized, and conflict in a very Strange Land will continue.

Shehryar Fazli is Senior Analyst and Regional Editor for South Asia at the International Crisis Group.