Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Always interesting to hear from those who have been in command, now free from the ‘code of silence’ they are under while in service, speaking about all that the ISI and Army get up to

Army rigs polls to perpetuate power: Ex-ISI DG

WASHINGTON: Lt Gen (r) Asad Durrani, a former head of the ISI who later served as ambassador to Bonn and Riyadh, told a meeting here on Tuesday that an army regime only digs itself deeper into its hole as time passes and** it has to rig elections to perpetuate its power.
**
Durrani, who did the round of several local think tanks this week, was speaking at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. He said as an institution, the army wants to keep out of politics. But when in power, it finds its particular culture clashing with civilian culture, which is different. Whereas the civilian approach is one of accommodation and compromise, the army is trained to operate out of a well-defined framework. He said one reason for military takeovers is that the army gets impatient with the pace and style of civilian-run governments and disrupts the process through intervention when it should learn to let it continue, which is the only way it will improve. Once the military takes power, within its own ranks, it is loyalty to the coup-maker that becomes the norm. After some years in power, army regimes begin looking for an exit strategy but do not always find it.

Turning to the present situation, he felt that President Musharraf should take off his uniform and stay in power thereafter for four to five years. He was of the view that in the last seven years, the “so-called” mainstream parties had failed to build support at the grassroots level. They had also been waiting for “outside signals”.

Gen Durrani called for a rethink of the common Pakistani view that Pakistan’s fate is determined by “two As”, namely Allah and America. He said Allah does not spend all His time looking after Pakistan. As for America, its role has been exaggerated. Not always does the American ambassador in Islamabad, for example, know about changes, he added. He did not agree that every major decision is taken by the army, even when civilian governments are in power. He cited two examples where the decision-maker was the elected prime minister: the nuclear blasts of 1998 and Mr Vajpayee’s visit to Lahore. Answering a question, he said the Fauji Foundation was set up with pension funds from the Second World War and had been a success story. Even India had approached Pakistan once to learn about the factors responsible for the foundation’s good performance.

Asked about Kargil and what his version was, he replied that “no one knows the truth and every side has been economical with the truth”. To a question about the coming general elections in Pakistan, he said, “I am not in the business of speculating”. To another question about the possibility of Pakistan helping Saudi Arabia with nuclear know-how and assistance, he answered that during his two years from 2000 to 2002 as ambassador to the Kingdom, never even once had the nuclear question come up. He stressed that Pakistani-Saudi relations predate the oil boom and Saudi Arabia considers Pakistan a trustworthy friend. He wondered if questions about Saudi-Pakistani nuclear links were in the nature of trial balloons or if they were even rational. He described such speculation as far-fetched. To the inevitable question about the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden, he replied that no one knew where he was, but if he was found in Pakistan, it would be “embarrassing.” He ruled out the Saudi fugitive’s presence in Pakistan’s tribal regions where secrets are hard to keep. It is much easier to hide in a built-up area, he added. Some people, he pointed out, see Bin Laden as a “symbol of resistance”. He disclosed that there are 14 different American organisations in Islamabad looking for Bin Laden. That is what has driven property prices in that city higher than they were in Washington, he added as the audience snickered.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\10\19\story_19-10-2006_pg1_9

Re: ISI Chief- Army foils democracy for own ‘needs’

It seems the ISI chief confirmed what the people of Pakistan know about the workings of the ISI

*The 1990 elections are widely believed to have been rigged. The Islami Jamhoori Ittehad [IJI] party was a conglomerate formed of nine mainly rightist parties by the ISI under Lt General Hameed Gul to ensure the defeat of Bhutto’s Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) in the polls. Gul denies this, claiming that the ISI’s political cell created by Z.A. Bhutto only ‘monitored’ the elections. *

*Critics of the ISI say that it has become a state within a state, answerable neither to the leadership of the army, nor to the President or the Prime Minister. The result is there has been no real supervision of the ISI, and corruption, narcotics, and big money have all come into play, further complicating the political scenario. Drug money was used by ISI to finance not only the Afghanistan war, but also the ongoing proxy war against India in Kashmir and Northeast India. *

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/pakistan/isi/

Re: ISI Chief- Army foils democracy for own 'needs'

look at the history of CIA the words police on democracy and the ISI look like puppies.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Is there a surprise?

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

True, well known, but some people like to stick their head in the sand and pretend ISI/Army are perfect angels

Re: ISI Chief- Army foils democracy for own 'needs'

With the crucial exception that the CIA don't interfere/steal from/destroy their own country.....unless you believe the wildest conspiracy theories

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

^LoL, they do that with other countries instead.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Talking about our great politicians it is amazing how the party in which wins the elections calls them the most transparent in teh history of Paksitan and how the losing party always fails to accept the result be it PPP or PML (tind) and complains of rigging. If only these parties had the interest of the country at heart we would not have been in this situation. Shame really.

Re: Army foils democracy for own ‘needs’: ex-ISI Chief

And Shareefs and Bhuttos are ready to deface constitution and impose civilian martial law to perpetuate their power. :cb:

Seriously, I fail to find anything revealing or sensational about what Durrani said. The most ‘sensational’ thing in this thread is title of this thread with only the word ‘needs’ written in commas. :cb: Personally I agree with pretty much everything that has been attributed to Durrani in this article (unless, of course, you try to rewrite everything to suit your agenda).

I agree with his observation.

I’d like to see such arrangement in which we could make a smooth transition to civilian govt.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

If it takes the big bad army or the ISI to get rid of zardari/Benazir/Tinds, so be it...

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

^ I wouldn't have minded that all if the big-bad-army was something better.

Honestly what I think is we need some sort of balance in power so no one can pull anyone's chaddi or leg or become dada-geer of the country.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Captain, having witnessed the BB and Nawaz's chuddi in Pakistan, Im glad Musharraf's dada-geeri prevailed.

Criticism is ok as long as it makes sense. The present regime may not be milawat-free, but its ALOT better than what we have before.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Well said.

If Army rule was better, people would not mind, but as history, and the present regime shows, they are no better or less corrupt than the govts they overthrow. Quite often they are even worse.

As with any system, democracy needs to develop without Army interference, otherwise the democratic times become a race to do what you can before the Army takes over again, leading Pakistan into the sad state it is currently in. :(

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief


Unfortunately I have lived thru their era in Pakistan too. On street level, I donot recall a crime like mobile-snatch-if-you-decline-you-get-shot-dead-culprit-is-freely-repeating-it so widespread. There were political killings by police/para-military but life was not so unsafe in both BB and NS era, atleast in Karachi.

I, in no way, would like to have any of past kings as rulers of Pakistan again, but certainly would like to see an evolution of system where no institution holds complete power without accountability.

Re: Army foils democracy for own ‘needs’: ex-ISI Chief

How did BB and NS control crime in Karachi, and what is the Musharaf govt doing wrong that the situation should be so bad in Karachi?

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Yeah right, anyone whose lived in Karachi knows thats a bongi, (which isnt a surprised, coming from you). Dude, go ask anyone, BB's second era was the WORST, though it wasnt the Government's fault at all, it was the MQM thugs being rampant. Mobile snatching is MUCH better than the open killing spree of the mid nineties in BB's times. I didnt live in Karachi, but have a large family there, and everyone was fed up with how things were back then, they are MUCH happeir with the present regime, keeping in mind all of them used to be PML[N] supporters.

[quote]

I, in no way, would like to have any of past kings as rulers of Pakistan again, but certainly would like to see an evolution of system where no institution holds complete power without accountability.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, what you think is unpractical, and can never happen in Pakistan, is liye chup kar key joh hai, accept it, rather than whining and shedding croc tears for BB and Tindal.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

someone who lived in Karachi is telling you and you admit that you didn't live in Karachi still denying it, haha. Killing spree that you are talking about was political killing and I alread mentioned it (though I missed killings by political activists). Karachi went thru turmoil those days, lots of 'hartaal', car-snatching-burnings I agree, but if you were not a political activist and stayed home in hartaal then you were safe. Anyway, seems like you have been fed something from 'large family' so you won't take anything from 'non-family'.

[quote]
Unfortunately, what you think is unpractical, and can never happen in Pakistan, is liye chup kar key joh hai, accept it, rather than whining and shedding croc tears for BB and Tindal.
[/quote]
Read my post above again, this is what I said:
[quote]
I, in no way, would like to have any of past kings as rulers of Pakistan again, but certainly would like to see an evolution of system where no institution holds complete power without accountability.
[/quote]
where does it say that I want anyone of those sickos back?

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

Army has given the ghonda party (MQM) free hand in the city which was not the case during the time of political governments
I myself do not want the same bunch of corrupt politicians back in power but the only was to prevent that is fare elections, impartial judiciary and true accountibility which if the Army really wants can be accomplished but they would never relinquish power
Everyone knows that power corrupts and more than 28 years of army rule has certainly made army corrupt, this will result in the demise of the last remaining institution we have laft in the country

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

You said 'karachi was safe if you stayed home in the Nawaz/BB', tujhe bongiyaan chikney ka kuch zyada hi shoq hai yah addat se majboor ho? Lets see now, 4 armed robberies in just ONE household in Karachi that I am referring too, from 1994-97, and I dont think they were any political activists, nor were they outside their houses, oh well might as well blame the big bad wardi walla.

Re: Army foils democracy for own 'needs': ex-ISI Chief

When these MQM 'ghondaz' were being dandafied by the previous CIVILIAN chipkalli governments, we all know what happened, they didnt just sit down and get spanked that easily, they caused havoc and fought back, even killed innocents. You cant just expect to kill every single mohajir, they are pakistanis, so the present association with them is wise, but people like you will never get it through your skull, just blame everything on mollahs or the army.